Time to acknowledge India cant play spin

[rkt.india]

9 hours ago, Muloghonto said:

 

Best keeper vs spin India has produced is easily Dhoni. he may even be the best keeper against spin i've ever seen. 

Kumble fyi, was by popular consensus ( both in international and FC cricket), the hardest bowler to keep to, ever. This is because he bowled at a pace that was 20-25% more than the average spinner AND got a lot of bounce for a spinner. Standing up to kumble = hardest job and we've seen plenty of wicketkeepers fumble at this task. Dhoni, Mongia and Saha are the only ones who kept to Kumble well and of them, Dhoni had the best hands of these guys IMO. 

The edge goes to Dhoni because he was a cleaner collector than these two ( even though i'd say Mongia was better than Dhoni at reflex catches off of spinners), which means he exerted a lot of pressure on the batsmen against spinners, as stumping becomes a much much more of a threat against clean collectors of the ball vs spinners. 

 

Most spinners bowl at Kumble's speed these days. Some even faster.

[Vilander]

10 hours ago, Gollum said:

 

Also best keeper to spin was Saha. And Lakshya won.

 

Bong supremacy, just built different.

 

Skinny fat with bad teeth? 

[Lord]

22 hours ago, neel roy said:

Most clutch innings under pressure in spin tracks both came from ganguly. This generation players are fodder against good spinners. 264 to win in kandy,srilanka. 4th innings chase in that era. . Ganguly not out 98. India win. It was unbelievable batting against muralitharan in that era. The other one was his 87 against saf in 2007. We some how manager to win that test. It was a bunsen burner in kanpur. He was MoM in both..

 

https://www.espncricinfo.com/series/south-africa-tour-of-india-2007-08-332904/india-vs-south-africa-3rd-test-332913/full-scorecard

 

https://www.espncricinfo.com/series/india-tour-of-sri-lanka-2001-62337/sri-lanka-vs-india-2nd-test-63944/full-scorecard

 

SA example is not great. SA only had Paul Harris as spinner. Even Yuvi made some runs.

[neel roy]

17 minutes ago, Lord said:

 

SA example is not great. SA only had Paul Harris as spinner. Even Yuvi made some runs.

India had lost the first test. This was the second test.. 2 test series.. we would have lost the series.. Laxman played well.. see the match in youtube. @Nikhil_cric can confirm this match was way way difficult than the one he won in kandy 4th innings chase..

[Lord]

13 minutes ago, neel roy said:

India had lost the first test. This was the second test.. 2 test series.. we would have lost the series.. Laxman played well.. see the match in youtube. @Nikhil_cric can confirm this match was way way difficult than the one he won in kandy 4th innings chase..

 

I saw that match but didnt see Kandy one. It was a slow turner. In terms of playing spin, Sehwag,VVS were far ahead of Ganguly.

[neel roy]

1 minute ago, Lord said:

 

I saw that match but didnt see Kandy one. It was a slow turner. In terms of playing spin, Sehwag,VVS were far ahead of Ganguly.

Sehwag played as an opener. Bulk of spin was faced by tendulkar Laxman ganguly at 456. Laxman was the best..he half the time played with tailenders shielding them. Sehwag was good but he used to throw his wicket away. His best innings to me is his 201 against Lanka in Lanka.. unbelievable innings.. the mendis series 

[Nikhil_cric]

2 hours ago, neel roy said:

Sehwag played as an opener. Bulk of spin was faced by tendulkar Laxman ganguly at 456. Laxman was the best..he half the time played with tailenders shielding them. Sehwag was good but he used to throw his wicket away. His best innings to me is his 201 against Lanka in Lanka.. unbelievable innings.. the mendis series 

@Lord

 

There's no ball by ball data from the 90's.

 

But from 2001, the best players of spin were actually Dravid and Sehwag. 

 

It's no accident that KP reached out to Dravid specifically to remodel his batting against spin. 

 

 

[Gollum]

3 hours ago, neel roy said:

India had lost the first test. This was the second test.. 2 test series.. we would have lost the series.. Laxman played well.. see the match in youtube. @Nikhil_cric can confirm this match was way way difficult than the one he won in kandy 4th innings chase..

That Kanpur pitch was a rank turner. Clutch knock by dada. His final stretch in test cricket was very good. 

[Tillu]

6 hours ago, Nikhil_cric said:

@Lord

 

There's no ball by ball data from the 90's.

 

But from 2001, the best players of spin were actually Dravid and Sehwag. 

 

It's no accident that KP reached out to Dravid specifically to remodel his batting against spin. 

 

 

 

And Dravid suggested not to wear pads while playing spin in the nets.

[cowboysfan]

Things are much worse than anybody realizes,we probably are the wrost team against spin in the entire sub continent..Why is Kohli playing ODIs? he has nothing to prove and he batting against spin is laughable at this point.

[Lord]

if Iyer is your best batsman vs spin, you know it has gone to the dogs.

[cowboysfan]

3 minutes ago, Lord said:

if Iyer is your best batsman vs spin, you know it has gone to the dogs.

nobody thinks this is not a big deal because we dont see pitches like this anymore but trust me in some important tournament it will all comeback to bite us.

[Frustrated]

In UAE, sometimes the dubai pitch offers plenty of spin...especially during the day time when it's dry.  Our batsmen's inability to play spin might come back to bite us in an ICC tournament soon.   Also, it is not confirmed if CT will be held in UAE.   If its held in SL, we are likely to crash out by losing to SL and/or BD.   We lost to BD in Asia Cup 2023 (luckily it was a dead rubber)

Edited August 4, 2024 by Frustrated

[Frustrated]

16 minutes ago, Lord said:

if Iyer is your best batsman vs spin, you know it has gone to the dogs.

TM must hv seen how Iyer sucked in the home test series vs Eng. And had to be forcibly dropped midway.   On top of that, he is a highly irresponsible cricketer.  The manner in which he speaks on camera is a testimony to that.  Has a history of disciplinary issues too.  Even lost his central BCCI contract just b4 IPL.  Hw do these guys re-enter our playing11 so easily?    Someone should be held answerable.  

[Frustrated]

Just realised that SL hv not qualified for CT.   Big relief.  We can't lose to them in CT. 

[Crookbond]

On 8/2/2024 at 7:36 PM, neel roy said:

Most clutch innings under pressure in spin tracks both came from ganguly. This generation players are fodder against good spinners. 264 to win in kandy,srilanka. 4th innings chase in that era. . Ganguly not out 98. India win. It was unbelievable batting against muralitharan in that era. The other one was his 87 against saf in 2007. We some how manager to win that test. It was a bunsen burner in kanpur. He was MoM in both..

 

https://www.espncricinfo.com/series/south-africa-tour-of-india-2007-08-332904/india-vs-south-africa-3rd-test-332913/full-scorecard

 

https://www.espncricinfo.com/series/india-tour-of-sri-lanka-2001-62337/sri-lanka-vs-india-2nd-test-63944/full-scorecard

Kandy 2001 - Ramesh( 47, 31) and Dravid (75) contributed to that batting win in Sandy. Ganguly edged with the MoM because he picked up 2 wickets. Don't get me wrong, Ganguly played well - lets not oversell here.

[cowboysfan]

I am going to hold GG to his word when he said guys have to get runs or they are out.

[Ultimate_Game]

45 minutes ago, cowboysfan said:

I am going to hold GG to his word when he said guys have to get runs or they are out.

 

Unfortunately that'll be applicable only to fringe players. I suspect the core group will go unscathed just like they did after WT20 in 2021 & 2022 or in WC2023 final.

[Throwaib_Chuckter]

On 8/3/2024 at 3:27 AM, jf1gp_1 said:

Back to back game has shown why we need pant

Pant needs to stay away from T20s and be a consistent feature in ODIs and Tests(if his fitness allows it).

[Throwaib_Chuckter]

6 hours ago, Frustrated said:

Hw do these guys re-enter our playing11 so easily?    Someone should be held answerable.  

Shreyas, Sanju simbbbly get selected wokay saaar ?!!?? Don't ask how.