Terrible state of Indian fast bowling,future looks bleak

[tapandrun]

TM and selectors should have been asked if they can play a test series without Bhumrah.

If yes what is the average score they are expecting opposite team to score per innings and what are Ind's chances of getting 20 wkts.

 

Ill-planning for last3/4 years have brought the pace bowling to a point there there seems to be no hope. Nothing can be done in short-term as the investments made in last 3/4years have been rubbish - Unadkat, Mukesh, Avesh etc are not even intnl. quality for. These guys have not been able to graduate to full strength ind side even in white-ball.

There is no seasoned domestic bowler you can pick and draft into Ind side just as stop-gap. The domestic bowlers are hardy bowling 135 kmph in white-ball, do not think they will get to 130 kmph consistently in red-ball.

 

Selectors have wasted development tours on bowlers like Saini, Avesh, Kamboj, Khaleel etc.

 

 

 

Edited December 27, 2024 by tapandrun

[Vijy]

17 minutes ago, tapandrun said:

TM and selectors should have been asked if then can play a test series without Bhumrah.

If yes what is the average score they are expecting opposite team to score per innings and what are Ind's chances of getting 20 wkts.

 

Ill-planning for last3/4 years have brought the pace bowling to a point there there seems to be no hope. Nothing can be done in short-term as the investments made in last 3/4years have been rubbish - Unadkat, Mukesh, Avesh etc are not even intnl. quality for. These guys have not been able to graduate to full strength ind side even in white-ball.

There is no seasoned domestic bowler you can pick and draft into Ind side just as stop-gap. The domestic bowlers are hardy bowling 135 kmph in white-ball, do not think they will get to 130 kmph consistently in red-ball.

 

Selectors have wasted development tours on bowlers like Saini, Avesh, Kamboj, Khaleel etc.

 

 

 

Selectors, coach, captain - the unholy trio

 

P.S. Bumrah should retire from int'l cricket altogether, which will allow him to make a lot of money playing T20 leagues all over the world. And eventually he & his family can move and settle in UK, US, Aus, etc.

[tweaker]

Our bowling looks bad because the next in line bowlers Kuldeep Sen, Prasidh were injured at the wrong time.A bowling attack of Sen,Siraj,Akashdeep, could have better than Avesh,Mukesh, etc.

 

The Selectors wasted lots of matches on Avesh,Mukesh and should have backed Umran .

 

There was zero planning from the team management, Selectors, coach regarding selecting young players for the ageing players.

 

The Selectors should have learnt from the loss against New Zealand. 

 

Young players ie Jurel,Sarfaraz, Rana,are sitting out for seniors who have not performed for a long time

[Vijy]

5 minutes ago, tweaker said:

Our bowling looks bad because the next in line bowlers Kuldeep Sen, Prasidh were injured at the wrong time.A bowling attack of Sen,Siraj,Akashdeep, could have better than Avesh,Mukesh, etc.

 

The Selectors wasted lots of matches on Avesh,Mukesh and should have backed Umran .

 

There was zero planning from the team management, Selectors, coach regarding selecting young players for the ageing players.

 

The Selectors should have learnt from the loss against New Zealand. 

 

Young players ie Jurel,Sarfaraz, Rana,are sitting out for seniors who have not performed for a long time

it is not their job to do so. their job is to siphon off some wealth into their pockets

[tweaker]

17 hours ago, Suhaan said:

BCCI must look into this and do something about it at war footing

Red ball bowling,where you cannot escape from it,not in SENA even at home

Siraj is done,Shami is done, Bumrah will break down soon,

So what are we left with?

Mukesh,Avesh,zaleel,Kamboj,vyshak?

Do Agarkar and co. seriously see them as carrying forward the baton?

Domestics have been pathetic,noone is interested to bowl in red ball cricket?

Where is the inspiration?

Not even Bumrah inspires them

We will see once few 150ks from no names in IPL ,they will be fastracked but with their glass bodies they will show their unavailability in red ball cricket,you cannot plan around them

BCCI needs to inspire the new lot first and make the pitches better

 

@express bowling

@Mosher

@singhvivek141

@Vk1

@MK55

@tweaker

@vvvslaxman

@Lord

And others

 

Bumrah is only quality pacer .Shami has been injured.Siraj has lost his effectiveness.At this period the bowling attack of Sen, Prasidh, Umran would have looked far better than Avesh Mukesh etc.

But injuries ,mismanagement, has made a mess of the fast bowling attack. 

[Vijy]

3 minutes ago, tweaker said:

Bumrah is only quality pacer .Shami has been injured.Siraj has lost his effectiveness.At this period the bowling attack of Sen, Prasidh, Umran would have looked far better than Avesh Mukesh etc.

But injuries ,mismanagement, has made a mess of the fast bowling attack. 

even U19 attack + bumrah may have done better.

[Vickydev]

Feel we have stopped promoting wicket takers. Can see it in the youth teams, bowlers who can bat are being encouraged over their actual skills to take wickets.

 

We have basically decided Bumrah is the strike bowler and others can just be used to keep things tight around him(Which they cant even do). Rana was dumped after one bad innings because he got hit. Yes he has lacked consistency but that wont come without playing him. Trouble is they will probably end up taming his instincts

[singhvivek141]

57 minutes ago, Vickydev said:

Feel we have stopped promoting wicket takers. Can see it in the youth teams, bowlers who can bat are being encouraged over their actual skills to take wickets.

 

We have basically decided Bumrah is the strike bowler and others can just be used to keep things tight around him(Which they cant even do). Rana was dumped after one bad innings because he got hit. Yes he has lacked consistency but that wont come without playing him. Trouble is they will probably end up taming his instincts

This is happening because our batting is in doldrums.
Hence to compensate, we are including bowlers who can bat.
Though for some reason, bowlers like Starc, Cummins, Rabada who are regarded as best in class are actually capable with bat as well. Even Hazelwood can hold the bat. Bumrah has become a reliable batter.
Only in India we have bowlers like Siraj, Mukesh, Avesh etc who are worse with bat than a 5th class kid. 

Edited December 27, 2024 by singhvivek141

[Vijy]

Just now, singhvivek141 said:

This is happening because our batting is in doldrums.
Hence to compensate, we are including bowlers who can bat.
Though for some reason, bowlers like Starc, Cummins, Rabada who are regarded as best in class are actually capable with bat as well. Even Hazelwood can hold the bat.
Only in India we have bowlers like Siraj, Mukesh, Avesh etc who are worse with bat than a 5th class kid.

don't forget the immortal chahal, though he is a spinner.

[Lord]

6 minutes ago, singhvivek141 said:

This is happening because our batting is in doldrums.
Hence to compensate, we are including bowlers who can bat.
Though for some reason, bowlers like Starc, Cummins, Rabada who are regarded as best in class are actually capable with bat as well. Even Hazelwood can hold the bat. Bumrah has become a reliable batter.
Only in India we have bowlers like Siraj, Mukesh, Avesh etc who are worse with bat than a 5th class kid. 

 

They aren't too great even with the ball

[singhvivek141]

3 minutes ago, Lord said:

 

They aren't too great even with the ball

My view is that players who excel in one department, try to contribute in others as well by working hard.
Those who are mediocre, will remain mediocre everywhere, coz they don't understand what excellence is.

[Adamant]

As always the usual suspects have made this an issue about Mukesh, Avesh.

Is Mukesh bowling in Aus, I don't see either of them. Siraj, Akashdeep and Rana have been tried and they couldn't do much, whu are we diverting the topic to trundler brigade yada yada, the issue is quality of those who are picked not the ones who are back at home.

[singhvivek141]

19 minutes ago, Adamant said:

As always the usual suspects have made this an issue about Mukesh, Avesh.

Is Mukesh bowling in Aus, I don't see either of them. Siraj, Akashdeep and Rana have been tried and they couldn't do much, whu are we diverting the topic to trundler brigade yada yada, the issue is quality of those who are picked not the ones who are back at home.

Topic is on the bleak future of red ball fast bowling.
Avesh, Mukesh are in the setup. So does Prasidh. 
It doesn't matter whom we like it or whom we dont, question which needs to be asked is if Bumrah is injured tomorrow, are we in a position to compete even with Bangladesh?
We have seen how helpless our bowling looks when Bumrah isn't firing. Matter is turned worse due to our joke of batting but that is already under discussion is on another thread.

 

Crux is we need to identify new bowlers and stick to them. If they are consistenly mediocre like Siraj, dump them. But give atleast 15-20 tests.

[Suhaan]

We had a far less potent attack last time but we still did well by our strategies and everyone played their role perfectly

This time we have no clue while bowling to their main batters

Rohit is responsible for 90% of our failure

[express bowling]

4 hours ago, Adamant said:

have made this an issue about Mukesh, Avesh. Is Mukesh bowling in Aus, I don't see either of them. Siraj, Akashdeep and Rana have been tried and they couldn't do much

 

High potential young players need to be groomed / developed when the current lot start to age / lose form / lose fitness.

 

Regarding our pace bowling, this was clearly apparent in mid 2022 when Bumrah was seriously injured and Ishant and Umesh were done. We were left with an aging Shami and a passable Siraj. 

 

But we saw in the series that followed that Unadkat was brought in and then Mukesh.

 

In 2023, we played a pace attack of Mukesh, Unadkat, Siraj and Shardul against a weak WI in an away test series. It provided such a golden opportunity to groom the next gen high potential quicks but was grandly missed. 

 

Avesh was picked for ODIs along with Mukesh.  This format can be used to groom long format pacers too but Avesh played 8 ODIs in mid 2024. Why were they not used to groom Harshit and Akashdeep or anyone else who can be trusted in Australian tests ?

 

And why did a past it Saini block positions in every A-team series in the recent past ?

 

Harshit had to make his international debut in a test in Australia without any A-team game experience even. Akashdeep debuted this year too. 

 

It is this lack of planning regarding developing new high potential quicks, and wasting easy matches on the trundlers, is what is inviting criticism.

 

Another question is that why is  Akashdeep bowling 5 kph slower than his debut series ? Is he not fully fit ?  Does he lack conditioning  ?  These questions need answers if we want to achieve excellence.

 

 

 

 

Edited December 27, 2024 by express bowling

[Throwaib_Chuckter]

20 hours ago, Lord said:

 

once Bumrah goes, we'll be back to the 90s

It already feels like that when he takes a breather for a few overs.

[tweaker]

Outside the pools of players in team India and A team, promising fast bowler, should be identified and groomed.They should be made to play Ranji trophy,Duleep Trophy and A games.

Tyagi,Umran, Mayank can be groomed for future

[lemsip]

2 minutes ago, tweaker said:

Outside the pools of players in team India and A team, promising fast bowler, should be identified and groomed.They should be made to play Ranji trophy,Duleep Trophy and A games.

Tyagi,Umran, Mayank can be groomed for future

I've yet to see Mayank complete even 4 overs in a row. What gives people the confidence he has a test match future either in terms of fitness or skills ?

[vignesh12345]

In 2018-2019, Bumrah wasn't even Indian. 

 

 

He was handsome, and hit the deck hard like he wanted to create a hole in the pitch.

 

Something changed in August 2019, during the West Indies tour. He made a fitness blunder. 

He got injured.

 

Since 2020, he bowls like he knows he is Indian. He bowls full and looks for swing - evidence of decline. He never hits the deck hard. He bowls like a stereotypical Indian.

In 2017, New Zealand struggled against Bumrah. In 2020, they dominated Bumrah.

 

Bounce is the sexiest part of fast bowling. Bumrah lost it in 2019.

 

Sam Konstas demonstrated just how much aura he has lost since that back injury in 2019. 

 

Bumrah had the opportunity to create an aura in 2019. He lost that massively. He will never gain the appreciation of a white woman. 

[Throwaib_Chuckter]

29 minutes ago, vignesh12345 said:

 He will never gain the appreciation of a white woman. 

 Eh !!??!??!