Will Kohli retire as a top 5 Indian batter in tests?

[R!TTER]

28 minutes ago, Majestic said:

The pitches against SL were really flat and Jadeja got 175* inflating his stats against them.

You can say the same about SA games at home - all those 100's in India shouldn't count either!

Primary team India

Opposition team Australia  or England  or New Zealand  or South Africa

Home or away home venue

Start of match date greater than or equal to 1 Jan 2016

Grouped by opposition team

Qualifications runs scored greater than or equal to 1000

Ordered by batting average (descending)

Overall figures

Opposition	Players	Span	Mat	Inns	NO	Runs	HS	Avehttp://i.imgci.com/espncricinfo/blackArrowDown.gif	BF	SR	100	50	0	4s	6s
v South Africa	13	2019-2019	3	32	7	1871	254*	74.84	2870	65.19	7	5	1	221	47
v England	35	2016-2024	14	234	30	7811	303*	38.28	14114	55.34	19	35	34	853	130
v New Zealand	28	2016-2024	8	157	20	4357	211	31.80	7821	55.70	6	26	21	498	72
v Australia	23	2017-2023	8	130	16	3189	202	27.97	6709	47.53	5	17	14	319	47

 

[deepdynamo]

This has to be Kohli's last test.

 

You can't carry a top order batsman who average 30 for 5 freaking years.

[Vijy]

3 minutes ago, deepdynamo said:

This has to be Kohli's last test.

 

You can't carry a top order batsman who average 30 for 5 freaking years.

he will play for 3-4 more years as per Asstri

[Lord]

10 hours ago, Majestic said:

@Lord bhai, here are more interesting observations of performance in SENA for openers. The man who went on to say in Koffee with Karan that Kohli is a better batter than Tendulkar is above Viru as opener in SENA conditions with more tons.

 

https://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/stats/index.html?batting_positionmax1=2;batting_positionmin1=1;batting_positionval1=batting_position;class=1;filter=advanced;home_or_away=2;home_or_away=3;opposition=1;opposition=2;opposition=3;opposition=5;orderby=batting_average;qualmin1=1000;qualval1=runs;spanmax1=31+Dec+2100;spanmin1=01+Jan+2001;spanval1=span;team=6;template=results;type=batting

 

Sure Viru under achieved in SENA. But he was an opener. Its much tougher to open in SENA. Still has some memorable knocks

[nevada]

Without Pujara at #3, Kohli's run aggregate would have been much lower. Going by just averages doesn't tell the full picture. Between the two of them, I feel Pujara is more impactful as a test player. He was rock solid at home and contributed to two away series wins against the Aussies. 

[Lord]

2 hours ago, Majestic said:

The pitches against SL were really flat and Jadeja got 175* inflating his stats against them.

 

If you watch Jadeja’s batting today also, my one concern with him is he usually bats slow, puts prize on his wicket but this very thing is required more in second inning and that’s where he gets out cheaply.

 

Look at today, 14(69) now and that’s exactly was needed of him in MCG 2nd inning. He somehow doesn’t have that match winning ability. Maybe Getting older just like Kohli now. 

That was not flat. We won that game with spinners bowling them out.

 

Flat is something like Ahmedabad where Kohli got 186 in a tame draw.

[Vijy]

Just now, Lord said:

That was not flat. We won that game with spinners bowling them out.

 

Flat is something like Ahmedabad where Kohli got 186 in a tame draw.

Ahmedabad pitch was a real road

[Majestic]

1 hour ago, Lord said:

That was not flat. We won that game with spinners bowling them out.

 

Flat is something like Ahmedabad where Kohli got 186 in a tame draw.

Flat wicket, harmless SL attack. Anyways we are comparing Jadeja at his peak years vs Kohli in his final years??

 

It’s like comparing Sehwag post 2011 who was pretty mediocre himself despite good batting conditions.

[Lord]

Just now, Majestic said:

Flat wicket, harmless SL attack. Anyways we are comparing Jadeja at his peak years vs Kohli in his final years??

 

It’s like comparing Sehwag post 2011 who was pretty mediocre himself despite good batting conditions.

 

How was it flatter than Ahmedabad? Why are you not talking about actual patta.

 

5 years is not 'final years'. Kohli's still playing.

 

[Majestic]

5 hours ago, R!TTER said:

You can say the same about SA games at home - all those 100's in India shouldn't count either!

Primary team India

Opposition team Australia  or England  or New Zealand  or South Africa

Home or away home venue

Start of match date greater than or equal to 1 Jan 2016

Grouped by opposition team

Qualifications runs scored greater than or equal to 1000

Ordered by batting average (descending)

Overall figures

Opposition	Players	Span	Mat	Inns	NO	Runs	HS	Avehttp://i.imgci.com/espncricinfo/blackArrowDown.gif	BF	SR	100	50	0	4s	6s
v South Africa	13	2019-2019	3	32	7	1871	254*	74.84	2870	65.19	7	5	1	221	47
v England	35	2016-2024	14	234	30	7811	303*	38.28	14114	55.34	19	35	34	853	130
v New Zealand	28	2016-2024	8	157	20	4357	211	31.80	7821	55.70	6	26	21	498	72
v Australia	23	2017-2023	8	130	16	3189	202	27.97	6709	47.53	5	17	14	319	47

 

Agreed. There wasn’t a quality spinner.

[Majestic]

2 hours ago, Lord said:

 

How was it flatter than Ahmedabad? Why are you not talking about actual patta.

 

5 years is not 'final years'. Kohli's still playing.

 

He is past his prime from 5 years so these are his final years only. 

[New guy]

31 minutes ago, Majestic said:

He is past his prime from 5 years so these are his final years only. 

There is a huge difference between past ones prime and being outright liability. 

 

And 5 years is 36% of kohlis entire career (5/14), imagine being a liability for almost 40% of your career, how can such a batsman even come in the discussion for top 5?

Edited January 3, 2025 by New guy

[Lord]

32 minutes ago, Majestic said:

He is past his prime from 5 years so these are his final years only. 

5 years is a long time man. It can't called bad form 

 

Its like saying 2014-18 he was just in good form

[Majestic]

43 minutes ago, New guy said:

There is a huge difference between past ones prime and being outright liability. 

 

And 5 years is 36% of kohlis entire career (5/14), imagine being a liability for almost 40% of your career, how can such a batsman even come in the discussion for top 5?

So Kohli had 9 years of prime years. Same as Sehwag who also had 9-10 years of prime years.

[R!TTER]

The difference between his away vs home avg at his peak is just too much - Sehwag although played relatively poor away he had a lot more even spread overall.

Primary team India  Home or away home venue  Start of match date between 1 Jan 2010 and 31 Dec 2019  Qualifications scores of fifty or more greater than or equal to 20  Ordered by batting average (descending) Overall figures Player Span Mat Inns NO Runs HS Ave BF SR 100 50 0 4s 6s   V Kohli 2011-2019 39 60 8 3558 254* 68.42 5840 60.92 13 10 3 397 13   CA Pujara 2010-2019 41 64 6 3471 206* 59.84 6858 50.61 10 18 2 432 10

Primary team India

Home or away away (home of opposition)

Start of match date between 1 Jan 2010 and 31 Dec 2019

Qualifications scores of fifty or more greater than or equal to 20

Ordered by batting average (descending)

Overall figures

Player	Span	Mat	Inns	NO	Runs	HS	Ave	BF	SR	100	50	0	4s	6s
AM Rahane	2013-2019	36	63	7	2619	147	46.76	5083	51.52	7	15	4	297	11
V Kohli	2011-2019	45	81	2	3644	200	46.12	6617	55.07	14	12	7	408	9

 

Primary team India  Home or away away (home of opposition)  Start of match date between 1 Jan 2001 and 31 Dec 2010  Qualifications scores of fifty or more greater than or equal to 20  Ordered by batting average (descending) Overall figures Player Span Mat Inns NO Runs HS Ave BF SR 100 50 0 4s 6s   SR Tendulkar 2001-2010 52 88 10 4592 248* 58.87 7957 57.71 15 18 6 591 20   R Dravid 2001-2010 61 106 13 5072 270 54.53 11510 44.06 12 26 2 658 6   V Sehwag 2001-2010 44 75 3 3584 309 49.77 4373 81.95 10 10 7 527 32   VVS Laxman 2001-2010 55 93 12 3918 178 48.37 7644 51.25 8 24 3 521 3   SC Ganguly 2001-2008 44 73 6 2602 144 38.83 4803 54.17 4 16 5 331 16

Primary team India

Home or away home venue

Start of match date between 1 Jan 2001 and 31 Dec 2010

Qualifications scores of fifty or more greater than or equal to 20

Ordered by batting average (descending)

Overall figures

Player	Span	Mat	Inns	NO	Runs	HS	Ave	BF	SR	100	50	0	4s	6s
V Sehwag	2001-2010	41	71	3	4003	319	58.86	4865	82.28	12	16	5	559	52
VVS Laxman	2001-2010	45	70	15	3104	281	56.43	6403	48.47	7	20	5	401	2
SR Tendulkar	2001-2010	45	75	8	3524	214	52.59	6998	50.35	11	17	1	446	13
R Dravid	2001-2010	47	80	9	3610	222	50.84	8560	42.17	11	16	3	445	7

[cricspirit]

I have only seen Gavaskar to the very end of his career. Kapil was also coming to and end and Sachin was coming up. 

 

I would rate Sachin above everyone else. My ranking is not just stats and has my personal bias to players who I like watching. Impact for India is very important in my book also.

 

1. Sachin Tendulkar

2. Sunil Gavaskar

3. Rahul Dravid

4. Viru Sehwag 

5. VVS Laxman

 

Virat does not quality. I can not honestly put a guy in top 5 who has limited peak,  a dry run of 5 years ( Entire 2020's), is too much drama on field, is selfish and does not score hard run in his 30's at all. Plus is less attractive to watch.

 

Kohli misses top 5 and is competing for top spot with next batch of guys.

 

Kohli, Pujara, Ganguly, Vengsarkar, Azhar or older players I have no Idea about. Like  Viswanath or Merchant that people rate highly but I have never seen them play. To be honest Azar was very stylish and its unfortunate he got mixed into the match fixing scandal.  Pujara and Kohli both could have got into top 5 by replacing Laxman but they both flopped badly after turning 30 which is odd. previously 33/34 was considered peak for batters and usually decline started after 35.

 

 

[goose]

i've just been told kohli is the only batsman in history with over 9000 runs and not to have 50+ plus average in at least one country outside home!

[New guy]

2 hours ago, Majestic said:

So Kohli had 9 years of prime years. Same as Sehwag who also had 9-10 years of prime years.

Sehwag had 11 years, averaged 70 in 2009 and 61 in 2010.

 

Also he retired after 2 years of bad form, unlike Kohli staying on for 5+ years now and hampering the team negatively. a batsman's career is the net sum and not just his peak, his harming the team later cancels some of his peak.

[Majestic]

40 minutes ago, New guy said:

Sehwag had 11 years, averaged 70 in 2009 and 61 in 2010.

 

Also he retired after 2 years of bad form, unlike Kohli staying on for 5+ years now and hampering the team negatively. a batsman's career is the net sum and not just his peak, his harming the team later cancels some of his peak.

That’s 10. Got dropped around 2006 too. Good he got away with few SENa games there. Imagine playing in this era where you have to play so many SENA games and then come home and play rank turners. Life is miserable if you are a batter.

[New guy]

2 minutes ago, Majestic said:

That’s 10. Got dropped around 2006 too. Good he got away with few SENa games there. Imagine playing in this era where you have to play so many SENA games and then come home and play rank turners. Life is miserable if you are a batter.

If kohli with his bad technique and glaring weaknesses can score so many runs in this era, then so can players from that period. Root, Smith, all are scoring bucketloads of run in this era. 

Edited January 3, 2025 by New guy