Are Jadeja and Sundar good enough front line spinners

[Sooda]

I don't know the answer

 

In Jadejas case..  is he good enough anymore? If he isn't, is he there as a batting AR? he may well merit a spot. But management are obliged to bowl him extensively ? 

 

In Sundar case ... Is he good enough yet? Can he groomed to be a front line bowler? I think so tbh , gets drift and revs... but Is his role a bowler who bats at 7 or 8? Or, is he a no 3 who bowls a bit ? It's problematic that we (the management ) don't seem to know his primary skill

[putrevus]

They are not that is one of the main problems for this team, they are neither top five batsmen.They are both gritty but I don't think they are good enough to be pure batsman either.

 

 

Edited November 25, 2025 by putrevus

[vvvslaxman]

They are.  WE saw how Harsh Dubey who took record 69 wickets in Ranji season history last year got taken apart by South African A team. You have to give them a run. You cannot expect magic every ball. He bowled well at Lords. He has height so he gets bounce and drift. You have to give him a lot of overs to get him ready. 

[Sooda]

 

28 minutes ago, vvvslaxman said:

They are.  WE saw how Harsh Dubey who took record 69 wickets in Ranji season history last year got taken apart by South African A team. You have to give them a run. You cannot expect magic every ball. He bowled well at Lords. He has height so he gets bounce and drift. You have to give him a lot of overs to get him ready. 

 

Yeah. Only bowled one over last test. He isn't that experienced even at fc level. Need overs. Coming off a loi series too

[Suhaan]

28 minutes ago, vvvslaxman said:

They are.  WE saw how Harsh Dubey who took record 69 wickets in Ranji season history last year got taken apart by South African A team. You have to give them a run. You cannot expect magic every ball. He bowled well at Lords. He has height so he gets bounce and drift. You have to give him a lot of overs to get him ready. 

Jadeja is going anyway not now but in year time,Sundar can be your match winner both with bat and ball,he isn't some sort of burden

But need one good spinner for atleast these conditions like Ashwin (yes he had batting as well,but if you don't look at that),who will run through opposition in helping conditions is just as vital 

Need to look at someone who is good spinner first

[Prabhdeep Singh]

Manav Suther

Thanush Kotian

Shams Mulani

Shryas Gopal

[vvvslaxman]

1 minute ago, Suhaan said:

Jadeja is going anyway not now but in year time,Sundar can be your match winner both with bat and ball,he isn't some sort of burden

But need one good spinner for atleast these conditions like Ashwin (yes he had batting as well,but if you don't look at that),who will run through opposition in helping conditions is just as vital 

Need to look at someone who is good spinner first

 

Spinners need a lot of overs the under the belt even if they are not finished. Also SA bastmen are far better against spin nowadays.  One good thing is Ashwin and Sundar are going to be in touch given that they are from same city. I believe Ashwin can make him better. Ashwin was accused of "over thinking" many times in his career.  He had to. Because he would have been a  one or two series wonder and disappeared. He played whiteball cricket, IPL, Tests. So he had to keep reinventing himself. He even tried leg spin. He practiced certain balls in the TNPL just to test out. Also he rarely got injured. Only injury he had was side strain. That is when his performance dipped a bit.  Axar after one series looked toothless. Bowlers have to constantly improve. We cannot assume this is their ceiling and they will never improve. They can. Also Sundar has shown a lot of glimpses of his potential. That unique 5 degree drift that took out Stokes at strokes of lunch is  not seen with other bowlers.  We cannot judge bowlers after every ball, every over,, every innings. 

[putrevus]

According to some geniuses if Sundar and Jadeja belong as bowlers then Kuldeep, along with Siraj and Bumrah would be the regular bowling attack.

 

Sai is number 3 technically correct batsman  and Jurel is second coming of Kumar Sangakarra according to same geniuses.Pant is WK and Openers there is no debate atleast when series started. 

 

Odd man out is Reddy, so Reddy and Gill's injury have caused this humiliation. Reddy did not play first test and Gill did not play second.

 

 

Edited November 25, 2025 by putrevus

[lemsip]

I think Sundar is good enough to be given a stint as a bowler. He gets drift and bounce and some turn and is reasonably accurate.

He is not going to run through sides on a good wicket but no offspinner will, Nathan Lyon frequently does nothing in matches in Australia these days but still plays every game. Sundar can generally be trusted to keep control.

He should be trusted as a bowler and given a proper run. His runs with the bat will always be a plus.

Jadeja is pretty much coming to the end of his career. He is still accurate but good sides these days can counter him pretty comfortably. Outside India he offers nothing as a bowler these days.

 

Edited November 25, 2025 by lemsip

[vvvslaxman]

11 minutes ago, lemsip said:

I think Sundar is good enough to be given a stint as a bowler. He gets drift and bounce and some turn and is reasonably accurate.

He is not going to run through sides on a good wicket but no offspinner will, Nathan Lyon frequently does nothing in matches in Australia these days but still plays every game. Sundar can generally be trusted to keep control.

He should be trusted as a bowler and given a proper run. His runs with the bat will always be a plus.

Jadeja is pretty much coming to the end of his career. He is still accurate but good sides these days can counter him pretty comfortably. Outside India he offers nothing as a bowler these days.

 

 

Yea.. Look at Maharaj 4 innings 4 wickets . It is just the Harmer that ran through our leftie line up.

[Gollum]

So long, these guys could operate from the shadow of Ashwin. Ashwin was our lead spinner who the captain always turned to in times of need. He would be the main target for opposition camp's big players, coaches and analysts, most of the plans centered around removing him from the picture. And if we lost, he would cop majority blame and abuse even if he wasn't the main culprit. Same with prime Kohli (don't let his final phase cloud your judgement)....as good as Vijay/Pujara/Rahane were, it was clear that Kohli would be the marked target, and others could play around him, under less pressure/scrutiny. In fact Kohli had it tougher because he was the main man in all formats, and all conditions. 

 

Now Ashwin isn't there, these other guys have been thrust into spotlight, not easy anymore. When it was time for KD to step up and take the lead, he didn't respond well. When Ashwin was KD's age, he had one of the greatest seasons for any bowler, culminating in consecutive series victories over NZ, Eng, Aus at home in 2016-17. 

Edited November 25, 2025 by Gollum

[putrevus]

6 minutes ago, Gollum said:

So long, these guys could operate from the shadow of Ashwin. Ashwin was our lead spinner who the captain always turned to in times of need. He would be the main target for opposition camp's big players, coaches and analysts, most of the plans centered around removing him from the picture. And if we lost, he would cop majority blame and abuse even if he wasn't the main culprit. Same with prime Kohli (don't let his final phase cloud your judgement)....as good as Vijay/Pujara/Rahane were, it was clear that Kohli would be the marked target, and others could play around him, under less pressure/scrutiny.   

 

Now Ashwin isn't there, these other guys have been thrust into spotlight, not easy anymore. When it was time for KD to step up and take the lead, he didn't respond well. 

Spot on, Ashwin was the brains behind Indian bowling attacks in India.He carried Jadeja till Jadeja became Jadeja.

 

He is the most under appericated ATG bowler.He gets no respect from fans and media.He is far better than Kumble in my view.

 

They can fill any void left by batsmen but filling Ashwin's shoes is not going to be easy.

Edited November 25, 2025 by putrevus

[vvvslaxman]

3 minutes ago, Gollum said:

So long, these guys could operate from the shadow of Ashwin. Ashwin was our lead spinner who the captain always turned to in times of need. He would be the main target for opposition camp's big players, coaches and analysts, most of the plans centered around removing him from the picture. And if we lost, he would cop majority blame and abuse even if he wasn't the main culprit. Same with prime Kohli (don't let his final phase cloud your judgement)....as good as Vijay/Pujara/Rahane were, it was clear that Kohli would be the marked target, and others could play around him, under less pressure/scrutiny.   

 

Now Ashwin isn't there, these other guys have been thrust into spotlight, not easy anymore. When it was time for KD to step up and take the lead, he didn't respond well. 

 

 

Ya.. now that Ashwin has retired competition is not between Ashwin and others. It is between themselves.  Sundar vs Kotian in this case. Sundar is ahead at this point. Jadeja will retire soon. But let us not assume whoever (suthar or sindhu or sai kishore or dubey) that take over the reins will start delivering consistently. THey will have to constantly evolve.  The real problem comes when players don't evolve beyond a certain point.  Kuldeep has definitely added a few elements to his bowling. ONe of the best thing about warnie was not just the revs or his variations like flipper (which hea dded later). It is the artificial pressure he creates out of thin air. He makes it sound like every ball an event.  Kully has to be mentally very aggressive as a wristie. FIeld changes here and there to throw players off. 

[lemsip]

8 minutes ago, vvvslaxman said:

Ya.. now that Ashwin has retired competition is not between Ashwin and others. It is between themselves.  Sundar vs Kotian in this case. Sundar is ahead at this point. Jadeja will retire soon. But let us not assume whoever (suthar or sindhu or sai kishore or dubey) that take over the reins will start delivering consistently. THey will have to constantly evolve.  The real problem comes when players don't evolve beyond a certain point.  Kuldeep has definitely added a few elements to his bowling. ONe of the best thing about warnie was not just the revs or his variations like flipper (which hea dded later). It is the artificial pressure he creates out of thin air. He makes it sound like every ball an event.  Kully has to be mentally very aggressive as a wristie. FIeld changes here and there to throw players off. 

They're not going to develop much in the next year or so. India are not playing any tests till the summer and all the spin bowling options will be playing T20 till then. That's not going to help them become better test bowlers.

[Trichromatic]

18 minutes ago, Gollum said:

So long, these guys could operate from the shadow of Ashwin. Ashwin was our lead spinner who the captain always turned to in times of need. He would be the main target for opposition camp's big players, coaches and analysts, most of the plans centered around removing him from the picture. And if we lost, he would cop majority blame and abuse even if he wasn't the main culprit. Same with prime Kohli (don't let his final phase cloud your judgement)....as good as Vijay/Pujara/Rahane were, it was clear that Kohli would be the marked target, and others could play around him, under less pressure/scrutiny. In fact Kohli had it tougher because he was the main man in all formats, and all conditions. 

 

Now Ashwin isn't there, these other guys have been thrust into spotlight, not easy anymore. When it was time for KD to step up and take the lead, he didn't respond well. When Ashwin was KD's age, he had one of the greatest seasons for any bowler, culminating in consecutive series victories over NZ, Eng, Aus at home in 2016-17. 

 

Ashwin was the reason we were winning, but here batting is reason why we are losing.

[vvvslaxman]

3 minutes ago, lemsip said:

They're not going to develop much in the next year or so. India are not playing any tests till the summer and all the spin bowling options will be playing T20 till then. That's not going to help them become better test bowlers.

That is why everyone including kuldeep, jadeja and Sundar must continue playing domestic to see where they stand.

[putrevus]

13 minutes ago, Trichromatic said:

 

Ashwin was the reason we were winning, but here batting is reason why we are losing.

No, it is overleading of bits and pieces players who are playing as pseudo allrounders is the reason why we are losing.

 

SA was 248/6 and they scored 489.If you had good bowlers would they be scoring those runs.

 

Samething in first test those 30 runs would have been scored by decent  batsmen, you did not need 6 bowling options and Jurel.

Edited November 25, 2025 by putrevus

[Lord]

Kuldeep is the main spinner and they are matching him if not bowling better

[Lord]

1 hour ago, Gollum said:

So long, these guys could operate from the shadow of Ashwin. Ashwin was our lead spinner who the captain always turned to in times of need. He would be the main target for opposition camp's big players, coaches and analysts, most of the plans centered around removing him from the picture. And if we lost, he would cop majority blame and abuse even if he wasn't the main culprit. Same with prime Kohli (don't let his final phase cloud your judgement)....as good as Vijay/Pujara/Rahane were, it was clear that Kohli would be the marked target, and others could play around him, under less pressure/scrutiny. In fact Kohli had it tougher because he was the main man in all formats, and all conditions. 

 

Now Ashwin isn't there, these other guys have been thrust into spotlight, not easy anymore. When it was time for KD to step up and take the lead, he didn't respond well. When Ashwin was KD's age, he had one of the greatest seasons for any bowler, culminating in consecutive series victories over NZ, Eng, Aus at home in 2016-17. 

 

Kuldeep has been very disappointed.Jadeja has declined which is expected and now hes 3rd spinner instead of 2nd. Sundar is still inexperienced.

 

They also suffer due to captain being very defensive and giving easy singles.

[Gollum]

8 minutes ago, Lord said:

 

Kuldeep has been very disappointed.Jadeja has declined which is expected and now hes 3rd spinner instead of 2nd. Sundar is still inexperienced.

 

They also suffer due to captain being very defensive and giving easy singles.

And not giving long spells. MSD, Kohli, Rohit used to often give 15-20 over spells to our spinners.