Why does General Category never protest in India - despite being robbed of merit more than anyone else ?

[Mariyam]

11 minutes ago, BacktoCricaddict said:

Tangentially, do they still ask for religion / caste on government forms? If so, that must be stopped. Separate state and religion. 

Depends on what you mean by government forms.

 

In the Census religion is asked for.

In job applications for PSUs caste is asked for. Quotas are to be filled according to caste affiliation.

In forms for entrance exams also caste is to be marked. Seats are also allocated as per Caste based cut offs.

 

When you apply for jobs/Short Service Commissions/ IMA caste or religion is not asked.

 

This is my take on the situation. These past few decades of reservations have lifted some people from their penury. The biggest benefactors are the bureaucrats who hand over caste based certification for a few rupees and politicians who forge vote banks on the basis of victimhood ( real or perceived).

 

There is some hope. The Supreme Court is considering discontinuing caste based reservations for children of those who are in the IAS. 

[randomGuy]

3 minutes ago, singhvivek141 said:

 

Uspe bhi bawaal hoga. Votes nahi aaenge. 

Best option is slowly privatise PSUs...na rahegi govt jobs na rahega reservation.

 

Except key sectors like Defence, Police, Railways...etc move everything to pvt. Even Banks.

Just keep a body to govern them...but thats it.  Govt job is to run the country, not to produce jobs. Lazy sarkari teachers or bank employees just continue to fart on the chair whole day, work for 3-4 hours and then cry that govt job isnt the same which it used to be 20-30 years back (when they wont even work for 1 hour a day).

Yahi to baat hai bhai. aajkal govt job me bhi bahut kaam hai. Not like past.

 

Govt schools n banks are both necessary.

[randomGuy]

7 minutes ago, singhvivek141 said:

 

Uspe bhi bawaal hoga. Votes nahi aaenge. 

Best option is slowly privatise PSUs...na rahegi govt jobs na rahega reservation.

 

Except key sectors like Defence, Police, Railways...etc move everything to pvt. Even Banks.

Just keep a body to govern them...but thats it.  Govt job is to run the country, not to produce jobs. Lazy sarkari teachers or bank employees just continue to fart on the chair whole day, work for 3-4 hours and then cry that govt job isnt the same which it used to be 20-30 years back (when they wont even work for 1 hour a day).

Dup.

Edited July 27 by randomGuy

[Mariyam]

57 minutes ago, LordPrabhzy said:

What is stopping reservation to be purely on economic basis?

 

Why should a kid of a ST/SC IAS/Governmental officer/college professor parents who have utilised reservations many times already get the privilege of this reservation compared to a poor kid from a General cat family?- this wont solve the social evil of caste discrimination but at least its the fairest of ways that merit is rewarded but circumstances are taken into account for everyone equally and not just favour people who have utilised reservations for generations and in a good financial place purely based on what their family 'caste' is

I come from a fairly privileged background and may lack the depth to speak about those who have faced systemic discrimination for ages. I don't want to come across as someone without empathy for those who suffered. However, the reservation set up in its current form is not working. Its a vote collecting carrot. Period.

 

The reason reservation is not on economic basis: It is nigh impossible to determine someone's economic condition. The Income Tax department has a tough time doing it. 

[singhvivek141]

15 minutes ago, randomGuy said:

Yahi to baat hai bhai. aajkal govt job me bhi bahut kaam hai. Not like past.

 

Govt schools n banks are both necessary.

 

We (working pvt sector middle class) cant pay the burden for these responsibilities.

 

We cant take responsibility for those who dont want to study but instead dance on the insta over "kacha badaam" reels.

 

Govt schools are in pitiful condition and as much as funds are a problem, so are the teachers who will do ghapla in mid day meal, doze off whole day and just teach an hour or two. Isiliye even those who are serious are putting their kids to pvt school.

 

Sarkari me abhi bhi bahut kam kaam hai...pehle pvt ke muqable 10% tha, ab shayd 30-40% hai..bas itna hi. Abhi bhi sab Raja Babu bane rehte hai.

 

[randomGuy]

3 minutes ago, singhvivek141 said:

 

We (working pvt sector middle class) cant pay the burden for these responsibilities.

 

We cant take responsibility for those who dont want to study but instead dance on the insta over "kacha badaam" reels.

 

Govt schools are in pitiful condition and as much as funds are a problem, so are the teachers who will do ghapla in mid day meal, doze off whole day and just teach an hour or two. Isiliye even those who are serious are putting their kids to pvt school.

 

Sarkari me abhi bhi bahut kam kaam hai...pehle pvt ke muqable 10% tha, ab shayd 30-40% hai..bas itna hi. Abhi bhi sab Raja Babu bane rehte hai.

 

1. A substantial percentage still study in govt school. 2. Mid day meal in totality is a big success. 3. Psu banks needed to open branches in villages etc give loan that may be unviable for private sector and sometimes to give confidence to private sector. 4. Usa, china both have govt schools, china has psu banks.

[randomGuy]

Btw i have studied in govt schools from 1st to 12th in Delhi. They are good. You have to be selective.

 

 

[singhvivek141]

6 minutes ago, randomGuy said:

1. A substantial percentage still study in govt school. 2. Mid day meal in totality is a big success. 3. Psu banks needed to open branches in villages etc give loan that may be unviable for private sector and sometimes to give confidence to private sector. 4. Usa, china both have govt schools, china has psu banks.

 

Bhai it has to be either this or that.

 

If you want govt schools ..then it must be a decent school and not some timepass in a dilipated building. It helps no one. Where everyone can study with quality education.

 

Else, its just a way to earn more black money for the staff who is posted there. They will steal the grains....make dal more watery and at times just give rice, dal with pickle with little bit of vegetable. 

 

I am not saying this out of thin air...I have visited govt schools in districts like Azamgarh, Mau, Chandauli (coz my relatives are there) and seen the situation. Majority of govt school are like that.

Edited July 27 by singhvivek141

[randomGuy]

2 minutes ago, singhvivek141 said:

 

Bhai it has to be either this or that.

 

If you want govt schools ..then it must be a decent school and not some timepass in a dilipated building. It helps no one. Where everyone can study with quality education.

 

Else, its just a way to earn more black money for the staff who is posted there. They will steal the grains....make dal more watery and at times just give rice, dal with pickle with little bit of vegetable. 

 

I am not saying this out of thin air...I have visited govt schools in districts like Azamgarh, Mau, Chandauli (coz my relatives are there) and seen the situation. Majority of govt school are like that.

You must visit some of the well run govt schools. Waise regarding teacher quality, a govt school teacher earns twice as much as a private school teacher, he/she cleared exam to get the job which the private school teacher could not. Govt school teachers are underrated. Kejri wanted to create an illusion that only during his time, govt school kids clear iit etc. In my class alone 2/35 kids cleared IITJee. My rank was 3000+ , the other guy's was 400. That was during shiela dixits time. Waise bhi school teacher ka role kam hai. Online padai hai sari. Schools are needed for socialising and for social skills development.

 

Also, Rate midday meals based on researched articles. I am of the impression it is a resounding success.

[Mariyam]

18 minutes ago, randomGuy said:

Btw i have studied in govt schools from 1st to 12th in Delhi. They are good. You have to be selective.

 

I am guessing it's from one of the renowned KVs in Delhi.

 

You can't compare a KV in Delhi to a government school in a tier 2 or tier 3 city. 

Scratch that, even the Municipal School system in Mumbai is in tatters. 

[randomGuy]

6 minutes ago, Mariyam said:

I am guessing it's from one of the renowned KVs in Delhi.

 

You can't compare a KV in Delhi to a government school in a tier 2 or tier 3 city. 

Scratch that, even the Municipal School system in Mumbai is in tatters. 

1st to 8th normal govt school with 60/70 students per class. 9th to 12th in a Pratibha Vikas vidyalaya (supposed to be better than KVs and private schools). It had 30-35 students per class and much better infra. 

 

I relied on self study let's say from 11th. Most people join coaching institute (80%).

Edited July 27 by randomGuy

[BacktoCricaddict]

20 minutes ago, randomGuy said:

Most people join coaching institute (80%).

 

This is a bit off-topic, but there simply shouldn't be a need for this. It had just started when I was in 12th, but mushroomed out of control within a few years after that. Lecturers who would provide excellent teaching and other resources (notes, sample questions etc.) to their coaching class students would do nothing for their college students. The only reason to go to college was to get 10% practicals marks in lab courses. 

 

Bringing it back on-topic - when this happens, it puts additional pressure on financially underprivileged families. Coaching class ke liye kahaan se paise laayenge?

[LordPrabhzy]

18 minutes ago, BacktoCricaddict said:

 

This is a bit off-topic, but there simply shouldn't be a need for this. It had just started when I was in 12th, but mushroomed out of control within a few years after that. Lecturers who would provide excellent teaching and other resources (notes, sample questions etc.) to their coaching class students would do nothing for their college students. The only reason to go to college was to get 10% practicals marks in lab courses. 

 

Bringing it back on-topic - when this happens, it puts additional pressure on financially underprivileged families. Coaching class ke liye kahaan se paise laayenge?

Instead of people fighting and protesting about improving the standards of Gov school education which is badly effected by low salaries, lack of accountability and reservation utilised useles teachers.

 

In India Everyone wants equality of outcomes and not equality of opportunities- thats what the focus should be on, not never ending cycles of caste reservations. If Gov school standards improve then both SC/ST and general category students get the same education and opportunities- which is the first step to eradicate casteism. But political parties dont want this and know the more they keep standards down, they have a ready make votebank

Edited July 27 by LordPrabhzy

[randomGuy]

21 minutes ago, BacktoCricaddict said:

 

This is a bit off-topic, but there simply shouldn't be a need for this. It had just started when I was in 12th, but mushroomed out of control within a few years after that. Lecturers who would provide excellent teaching and other resources (notes, sample questions etc.) to their coaching class students would do nothing for their college students. The only reason to go to college was to get 10% practicals marks in lab courses. 

 

Bringing it back on-topic - when this happens, it puts additional pressure on financially underprivileged families. Coaching class ke liye kahaan se paise laayenge?

In my time, I was studying vidyamandir classes ke notes and HC Verma etc.

 

I think in today's time of internet, YouTube and AI, exam preparation became easier by an order of magnitude....I actually topped a govt job exam taken by 20k people (mostly computer engineers) studying through YouTube vids alone . I was out of touch with engineering syllabus, 1.5 months of watching YouTube vids at 2x speed and a couple of mock papers was good enough for preperation.

Edited July 27 by randomGuy

[BacktoCricaddict]

3 minutes ago, randomGuy said:

In my time, I was studying vidyamandir classes ke notes and HC Verma etc.

 

I think in today's time of internet, YouTube and AI, exam preparation became easier by an order of magnitude....I actually topped a govt job exam taken by 20k people (mostly computer engineers) studying through YouTube vids alone . I was out of touch with engineering syllabus, 1.5 months of watching YouTube vids at 2x speed and a couple of mock papers was good enough for preperation.

 

But, you are an outlier. The system must work for the average person. 

[randomGuy]

Just now, BacktoCricaddict said:

 

But, you are an outlier. The system must work for the average person. 

Thanks. I was better than average but worse than many.

 

Algos throw YouTube vids of best teachers. Also, I suspect AI might be equal to best human teachers as well. 

 

In our times, exam preparation was much harder for sure.

[Trichromatic]

People argue that reservations are keeping country behind - how do they support this with progress trend of country?

 

Ever since industrial revolution took place, country where mostly Khastriyas and Brahmins held most of the power kept going back. Lost country to British, had to struggle 200 years to get independence - and that struggle was a mass movement.

 

Since 1947-1990, 80% opportunities were open to all and yet country remained most backward in those days. Right now country has prospred a lot.

 

If this was single biggest reason holding back country, then India would have been better in 50s-90s and would have been on downward trajectory.

[coffee_rules]

Following the CJ P model there is a new 

 

[coffee_rules]

9 hours ago, Trichromatic said:

Risk wise even reservation is not going anywhere.

 

So if you’re demanding something risky, then demand for eradication of root cause itself.

It’s a chicken and egg situation. How do you eradicate casteism and still have reservations based on caste? So everybody has declare  their caste for reservations, how do you eradicate caste  system and the hierarchy when you have reservations for people based on caste?

[Lord]

2 hours ago, coffee_rules said:

Following the CJ P model there is a new 

 

 

Its good if such protests keep coming if they are not hijacked. Opposition is useless anyway so citizens have to unite