Waqar Younis vs Ishant Sharma: Not as Strange a Comparison as It Looks

[vvvslaxman]

45 minutes ago, maniac said:

 

He showed sparks on and off. But overall he regessed under MSD as he instructed him to bowl certain way

 

Ishant

 

Under MSD 

47 matches 152 wickets 36.65 average 65.1 SR

 

Under Kumble

9 matches 24 wickets 38 aveage 70.1 SR

 

Under Dravid

1 test  1 wickets 49  average 78 SR

 

Under Rahane

2 tests 4 wickets 25 average 51 SR

 

Under Kohli

43 tests 121 wickets 25.85 average 55.6 SR

 

 

[putrevus]

2 hours ago, maniac said:

Umesh, Ishant and even Nehra,  Agarkar and Srinath used to clock 140 + in their final phase  Waqar’s legendary phaaasht boiling “prime” is limited to when there was barely any telecast or proper speed guns.

People go by too much “inswining reverse wing Yorker” crashing into stump videos on YouTube.  
 

Yes no doubts about his skills, excellent  bowler and 2nd tier ATG for sure, however I only remember properly watching his bowling from Ajay Jadeja trashing and Jayasuriya trashing him regularly like he would do to our Prasad, Mohanty etc . That was it for me lol.  He was dropped for Akthar but when he came back he was a very good skillful bowler who can swing and seam at will but a medium pacer at best. 
 

Dont beleive on Doordarshan before satellite  tv came to India, they  telecasted Pakistani matches not involving India so no way anyone watched Waqar’s prime, he wasn’t there in 1992 World Cup. Since then on when cricket broadcast kicked on in India , from what I saw he was a very good bowler but not a speed demon by any means and later a bonafide trundler with skills.thats about it.

Wow what a wonderful logic. So since it was not telecast according to your taste , his speed does not count.

 

Andy Roberts, Wes Hall, Holding, Lillee, Thompson their matches were also not telecast either or had any speed guns. So they all were trunders.

[maniac]

2 hours ago, putrevus said:

Wow what a wonderful logic. So since it was not telecast according to your taste , his speed does not count.

 

Andy Roberts, Wes Hall, Holding, Lillee, Thompson their matches were also not telecast either or had any speed guns. So they all were trunders.

Some Aussie cricket commie claimed he bowled 180 clicks, you take what you saw from that era with a pinch of salt. They do look rapid to the naked eye on grainy YouTube videos though

[AKane]

3 hours ago, maniac said:

Some Aussie cricket commie claimed he bowled 180 clicks, you take what you saw from that era with a pinch of salt. They do look rapid to the naked eye on grainy YouTube videos though

You can ask Gavaskar who was the fastest he faced and he says it was Thomson (1977 post-injury) .

 

Here is the pre-injury Thomson. First two balls you can see... first was a loosener then sweater came off. The third I cannot see caught at 3rd slip by Redpath. But my eyesight is terrible.

 

180 is an exaggeration but he regularly bowled in 150s or at least he was quicker than Shami and Ishant.

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j8fGY7bFnmA

 

Edited August 19 by AKane

[Rightarmfast]

8 hours ago, putrevus said:

Wow what a wonderful logic. So since it was not telecast according to your taste , his speed does not count.

 

Andy Roberts, Wes Hall, Holding, Lillee, Thompson their matches were also not telecast either or had any speed guns. So they all were trunders.

Listen, nobody is saying Wasim and Waqar were not fast and nobody is saying they were not amazing bowlers. Waqar was fast, but he was not a 155+ bowler. Wasim, I have never seen him bowl above fast medium. You can tell when someone's really quick. The really fast one was Shoaib Akhtar, and that you can tell without a speed gun. Waqar never had that kind of effect on batsmen. 

 

And yes, I am not a 100% sure what kind of speeds the West Indian greats would have generated. Their measure of pace was felt by the batsmen more because of the bounce, bodyline bowling that they used to adopt in a time when safety measures for batsmen were less. Very less. For all we know, they could be bowling no more than 140-145, but their bounce and constant attack on the batsmen made them look fiery. And there were 4-5 of them, so the batsmen never had respite. Dennis Lillee? Umm, Don't think he wa 155+. My guess is, he would have been 143-148ish maybe. When he was young. His later years, he looked more like a 140 bowler. 

[Adamant]

Nehra, Umesh bowled 140, bla bla, to ham kya kare, 150 bhi daal lo Waqar ke shoelace ke barabar hi rahenge.

[jf1gp_1]

Waqar is absolute sh!t as a human but as a bowler there is no comparison 

[maniac]

4 hours ago, Adamant said:

Nehra, Umesh bowled 140, bla bla, to ham kya kare, 150 bhi daal lo Waqar ke shoelace ke barabar hi rahenge.

Looking at Waqar these days , I don’t think Waqar can tie his own shoelaces anymore lol. And has nothing to do the back he blew that made him a bonafide trundler  

[maniac]

5 hours ago, Rightarmfast said:

Listen, nobody is saying Wasim and Waqar were not fast and nobody is saying they were not amazing bowlers. Waqar was fast, but he was not a 155+ bowler. Wasim, I have never seen him bowl above fast medium. You can tell when someone's really quick. The really fast one was Shoaib Akhtar, and that you can tell without a speed gun. Waqar never had that kind of effect on batsmen. 

 

And yes, I am not a 100% sure what kind of speeds the West Indian greats would have generated. Their measure of pace was felt by the batsmen more because of the bounce, bodyline bowling that they used to adopt in a time when safety measures for batsmen were less. Very less. For all we know, they could be bowling no more than 140-145, but their bounce and constant attack on the batsmen made them look fiery. And there were 4-5 of them, so the batsmen never had respite. Dennis Lillee? Umm, Don't think he wa 155+. My guess is, he would have been 143-148ish maybe. When he was young. His later years, he looked more like a 140 bowler. 

they were not fast, maybe for 1-2 years. Yes they were very skillful. Same story like with Munaf Patel. However yes they were better than Munaf Patel, I will give them that   

 

PS: Munaf is a World Cup winner with performances. Waqar remember him for Jadeja trashing 96, getting dropped for a roided up  Akthar in 1999, and Sachin ending his career in 2003.

Edited August 19 by maniac

[putrevus]

12 hours ago, maniac said:

Some Aussie cricket commie claimed he bowled 180 clicks, you take what you saw from that era with a pinch of salt. They do look rapid to the naked eye on grainy YouTube videos though

Who is Aussie commie, Thommo is universally ackowledged as fastest by lot of people including Holding who was fastest among WI pacers.

 

Even Viv Richards and Clive Lloyd have said Thommo was brutally fast.

 

He like Waqar had very short peak for five years where he was fastest.In 1980s he became medium pace , he did not have many other skills as a fast bowler that is why his avg is 28.

 

Listen to all Indian batsmen of 1970s-mid 1990s  or any batsmen of that ERA starting from Sunil Gavaskar to Alan Border they will share horror stories of WI pace.

 

 

 

Edited August 19 by putrevus

[putrevus]

7 hours ago, Rightarmfast said:

Listen, nobody is saying Wasim and Waqar were not fast and nobody is saying they were not amazing bowlers. Waqar was fast, but he was not a 155+ bowler. Wasim, I have never seen him bowl above fast medium. You can tell when someone's really quick. The really fast one was Shoaib Akhtar, and that you can tell without a speed gun. Waqar never had that kind of effect on batsmen. 

 

And yes, I am not a 100% sure what kind of speeds the West Indian greats would have generated. Their measure of pace was felt by the batsmen more because of the bounce, bodyline bowling that they used to adopt in a time when safety measures for batsmen were less. Very less. For all we know, they could be bowling no more than 140-145, but their bounce and constant attack on the batsmen made them look fiery. And there were 4-5 of them, so the batsmen never had respite. Dennis Lillee? Umm, Don't think he wa 155+. My guess is, he would have been 143-148ish maybe. When he was young. His later years, he looked more like a 140 bowler. 

No Praisdh is faster than them.Sorry I forgot Srinath is fastest.

 

I see one new thing today unless they bowl fastest in front of your majesty they are not going to be called express.Nice going.

Edited August 19 by putrevus

[AKane]

2 hours ago, putrevus said:

He like Waqar had very short peak for five years where he was fastest.

Thomson's injury was an on field accident. He collided with Alan Turner on a catch and dislocated/injured his right shoulder. His pace came back after that but he was not the same bowler afterwards. The "brutality" had gone. 

[putrevus]

2 minutes ago, AKane said:

Thomson's injury was an on field accident. He collided with Alan Turner on a catch and dislocated/injured his right shoulder. His pace came back after that but he was not the same bowler afterwards. The "brutality" had gone. 

Lillee was genius with ball but he was for that 1975-76 series where WI were brutally smacked, all of them were on record on from Lloyd to Richards it was fearful Thommo they were worried as he could physically hurt them.

[AKane]

28 minutes ago, putrevus said:

Lillee was genius with ball but he was for that 1975-76 series where WI were brutally smacked, all of them were on record on from Lloyd to Richards it was fearful Thommo they were worried as he could physically hurt them.

yeah - the series was tied 1-1 with Aus winning Brisbane and WI winning Perth. Then Thomson turned it on and Aus reeled off the next 4 matches in row.

 

Even the England series in 1974-75, Lillee was a distant second to Thomson. Which made the decision by England to leave out John Snow and have the gentle giant Bob Willis lead the attack against Aus at that tome so infuriating. I have since come to conclude that England likes to lose to Aus in cricket and then wax eloquent about Bradman, Chappells and the more recent players.

 

I believe that England kicked WI out of county cricket not because WI was humiliating England, they could live with that. The MCC honchos could not stomach the fact that WI was humiliating Aus. How dare they!!?

 

Check the record of Matthew Hayden vs Ambrose/Walsh and Donald. It was terrible. He was dropped in 1997 but they all retired or got very old in 1999 and Hayden arrived with his front foot crap back in team in 1999 because there was nobody to push him on back foot then.

[Rightarmfast]

3 hours ago, putrevus said:

No Praisdh is faster than them.Sorry I forgot Srinath is fastest.

 

I see one new thing today unless they bowl fastest in front of your majesty they are not going to be called express.Nice going.

Well, I wasn't ready to believe. But since you insist, ok... Fine. Prasidh is faster. And Srinath was fastest! 

 

Yes, but this one I say without sarcasm. I believe what I see!!! Before speedguns, Mcgrath was supposed to be fast, atleast faster than Srinath. He was termed ' Right Arm Fast', whereas Sri was fast medium. But wht do you think? Wasim, till his last yrs was termed Left arm fast. But was he faster than Nehra? 

 

Courtney and Curtly were termed right arm fast, but they were not. They were not as fast as Srinath for sure. 

People assume a lot, and have a lot of biases too. When there are numbers, then you can't make things up. Simple

[putrevus]

20 minutes ago, Rightarmfast said:

Well, I wasn't ready to believe. But since you insist, ok... Fine. Prasidh is faster. And Srinath was fastest! 

 

Yes, but this one I say without sarcasm. I believe what I see!!! Before speedguns, Mcgrath was supposed to be fast, atleast faster than Srinath. He was termed ' Right Arm Fast', whereas Sri was fast medium. But wht do you think? Wasim, till his last yrs was termed Left arm fast. But was he faster than Nehra? 

 

Courtney and Curtly were termed right arm fast, but they were not. They were not as fast as Srinath for sure. 

People assume a lot, and have a lot of biases too. When there are numbers, then you can't make things up. Simple

Can't cure delusions sorry.Keep living in them .

[Rightarmfast]

13 minutes ago, putrevus said:

Can't cure delusions sorry.Keep living in them .

And you keep living in yours

[putrevus]

23 minutes ago, Rightarmfast said:

And you keep living in yours

I live in reality that is why I don't term hall of fame fast bowlers as trundlers.

 

 

[vvvslaxman]

Ian Bishop was very fast too. He has hurt a few.. but Bro scahin treated him like spinner

 

 

[singhvivek141]

6 hours ago, vvvslaxman said:

Ian Bishop was very fast too. He has hurt a few.. but Bro scahin treated him like spinner

 

 

 

Bishop was quick but in 135-140 with quickest around 144-145 range.

Donald who was a proper 145-150k pacer troubled him. Bishop was visibly slower than Donald.