New ODI rules and faulty bowling shackle Dhoni

[saneindian]

I follow more test than odi and t20s.I do not think i would be swayed by odi performances when basics of team like bowling are not strong.I always look at cb series in aus as a benchmark' date=It really was a great series win .

Is that why 2 lossed in what was a 'meaningless ODI series' has got you all worked up? Why not wait for WI tests :--D

[CG]

Is that why 2 lossed in what was a 'meaningless ODI series' has got you all worked up? Why not wait for WI tests :--D

I am worked up due to ishant sharma,The guy is wasting so his talent .I do not give a damn about odi series.

[jf1gp_1]

No, I do not believe, but what I wanted to say was that he was not given a run like Vinay and Ishant are. He might or might not have become the solution to our problem but giving an example of Gony is wrong as he did not get much opportunity to improve at this level. Most bowlers improve at this level when they play more. Vinay Kumar and Ishant are not the ones who won us WC. Did they? Regarding we do not have bowlers. You cannot have readymade bowlers. You will have to select potential talented bowlers and make them good bowlers through coaching and by playing them at the highest level. Do you believe Vinay Kumar is the best talent we have and can become international bowler. If not the, what is wrong in giving young bowlers more chances.

Yes i agree Ishant and Vinay wont help us retain the WC ; infact their continues selection baffles me however i also dont believe we have this hidden talent which will one day come and change everything, so people should both go easy on Dhoni and not just throw a random name with a hope this xyz will change it all.

[rkt.india]

Yes i agree Ishant and Vinay wont help us retain the WC ; infact their continues selection baffles me however i also dont believe we have this hidden talent which will one day come and change everything' date= so people should both go easy on Dhoni and not just throw a random name with a hope this xyz will change it all.

It is absolutely wrong. We certainly have talent and until yo give them, you are not going to know. We cannot play same bowlers excusing we do not have options. Options are often being created. New bowlers are not going to do any worse. So many times Dhoni gives a same excise that their bowlers have pace and ours do not, but the guys who have are sitting at home. If you want pace, bring them in and tell them to bowl as quick as they can.

[jf1gp_1]

It is absolutely wrong. We certainly have talent and until yo give them, you are not going to know. We cannot play same bowlers excusing we do not have options. Options are often being created. New bowlers are not going to do any worse. So many times Dhoni gives a same excise that their bowlers have pace and ours do not, but the guys who have are sitting at home. If you want pace, bring them in and tell them to bowl as quick as they can.

i hope you are right i personally am not as optimistic as you are, Sami and Unadkat are in the squad i expect to see them in playing XI in the coming games hope they do well.

[rkt.india]

i hope you are right i personally am not as optimistic as you are' date=' Sami and Unadkat are in the squad i expect to see them in playing XI in the coming games hope they do well.[/quote'] They both are not even the best reserves we have.

[MCcricket]

Dhoni has been the biggest failure in developing the right bowlers, that is why our record away has been terrible recently, the rot started with the bumblin$ idio% Cheeka, he has his head under the sand and selectors are as bad about picking right pacers, Ushant has been a failure now for a long long time, Vk is worse, these gully bowlers will not make it to Aussie a or b sides, Suyal, Pankaj, Shami, Pandey,Kaul should have been introduced earlier and by now we might have one more decent bowlers, how can we have these continuous failures from no hoppers not having them kicked out

[MCcricket]

Australia could drop Staff, MJ and ask them to prove their fitness and form to come back, see the improvement in MJ, but Dhobi, selectors don't get it, they need to drop Ushant for his own good, VK is a joke and is not int material.

[Ram]

If there’s one constant critique of MSD’s tactics as ODI captain thru the years, it is his staunch stubbornness to play 3 seamers in home ODIs, even though the record has shown – AGAIN and AGAIN – that Indian seamers in home conditions are a total liability. The contrast between Indian seamers and spinners could not have been starker than it was, during the 3rd ODI. When Jadeja was bowling, the Aussie batsmen could not get the ball of the square. When the seamers were bowling, the Indian team could not keep the ball in the square. Our biggest ODI triumph at home – the WC 2011 win – came with us operating with 3 frontline spinners and the seamers together bowling less than 20 consolidated overs in the innings. Why had MSD forgotten those lessons so quickly? I also question his tactics bringing in Ashwin so late in the innings. Because he bought him on so late, Ashwin’s body language was downbeat from over no.1, probably because he sensed that MSD did not consider him a wicket taking option, but chose to keep continuing with Jadeja. By bringing on India’s best ODI bowler in the last 15-18 months at home, MSD marginalized our most effective wicket-taking option at home. Game 3 was winnable the moment we hit 300 in our first innings. It was bad tactics and stubborn captaincy that cost us the game.

[moniker]

^ He can afford to play 3 seamers for he has jaddu and yuvraj to fill up the fifth bowler's quota. Heck, sirji bowls out his full quota nowadays. He has the luxury to play 3 seamers but he's spoiling it by picking the wrong guys.

[vvvslaxman]

While what he says may hold true to some extent.. the sixes that Ishant were hit for were not a result of it.That could have very well happened with the old rule of having 5 outside the circle as he was bowling filth and in the arc of a lower order slogger.

[Number]

They don't shackle his own batting or his batsmen. Stop whining about rules, they are same for everyone.

[Lord]

^ He can afford to play 3 seamers for he has jaddu and yuvraj to fill up the fifth bowler's quota. Heck' date=' sirji bowls out his full quota nowadays. He has the luxury to play 3 seamers but he's spoiling it by picking the wrong guys.[/quote'] but that's a luxury we don't need to do it Play mishra instead of a pacer

[express bowling]

Right; having won everything he can now he doesn't understand how to spot bowling talent. Buddy give out selectors and captain some credit they understand who are the best and wont throw a random name who might have impressed you with a 4 over spell against domestic batsman. I so clearly remember so much hype for Gony after his ipl success' date=' he looked crap in international. Unadkat unless he has improved like hell there is no way he will survive for long. India selectors have more or less given opportunist to any and every possible bowling potential. Just accept we don't have any and move on.[/quote'] First off, when s person is a great champion like Dhoni, it means that person has a few outstanding qualities which normally includes a wonderful temperament. In Dhoni's case they are ability to stay cool under pressure, leading by example, good man management, ambition, superb fitness and stamina, etc. But that does not mean champions don't have weaknesses. The great Steffi Graf could not hit the backhand drive and always sliced the ball. Sehwag cannot play the hook shot with confidence. Similarity, Dhoni has weaknesses. It is only natural. He himself has said that his technical understanding of cricket is not very good. He leads by instinct. This includes him not being a great talent spotter. He likes experienced players generally and does not like to include new guys. He is good at utilizing what he has but not good at including effective new talent , like Imran Khan and Saurav were. Regarding selectors, there have been many good and bad and mediocre ones. Not all re good. Often there is so much politics at play. Do you know that even 9 or 10 years back and earlier, national selectors did not even watch domestic matches outside large cities because threre were no good hotels at those places. That is why most national cricketers were from the large cities. It is only recently that we are getting players from small towns because a conscious effort has been made by the BCCI to rectify this and include small town talents. Finally, if you think that we do not have any better pace talent than Ishant or Vinay then you are fooling yourself. Anybody can get hit in the LOIs but the approach should be right. That is not the case with Ishant. Almost every aspect of bowling has become defective in his case. And Vinay is one of the worst talentwise as far as an international pacer is concerned. New guys f introduced, would surely get hit on these pitches. But their approach can be better than Ishant and their talent will surely be more than Vinay.

[Ram]

^ He can afford to play 3 seamers for he has jaddu and yuvraj to fill up the fifth bowler's quota. Heck' date=' sirji bowls out his full quota nowadays. He has the luxury to play 3 seamers but he's spoiling it by picking the wrong guys.[/quote'] Its not as though our pacebowling cupboard is overflowing with options, is it? The only guy I can think who can potentially come into the side in place of a current seamer is Mohit Sharma. But history tells us that playing 3 seamers in ODIs in India is a recipe for disaster. It has never worked before and will never work again. The only plausible circumstance when this tactic can pay-off is if the pitch is a green-top with bounce, in which case the 2 new balls will add extra teeth to the quicks. But 95% of the pitches for the home ODIs will put national highways to shame. The only reason MSD keep picking 3 seamers is because he cannot get past the haunting visions of the opposition batsmen really caning one of the opening bowlers and he is FORCED to bring in a spinner with the fielding restrictions still on. He thinks that with only 4 fielders outside the ring, the spinners will be easy foder. What he is yet to understand is that, historically, Indian spinners have proved to be more economical than seamers, even with more fielders inside the circle. If you recall, just before the WC, MSD tried this mad tactic of playing 3 seamers (with Sreesanth being one of them) and it backfired badly. We corrected course just in time before the WC 11. If I recall correctly, Sreesanth played just a couple of matches during the entire WC 11 campaign. A majority of our overs were delivered by frontline spinners + Yuvraj and the results speak for themselves. Now, history is being repeated, except that, instead of Sreesanth, it is now Ishant.

[Laaloo]

Well we will need 3 pacers for the world cup so we need to see who's useful and who's not. We already know who are useless: current pacers in the team apart form Bhuvi.

[vvvslaxman]

Well we will need 3 pacers for the world cup so we need to see who's useful and who's not. We already know who are useless: current pacers in the team apart form Bhuvi.

It is blasphemy to call some of these guys pacers. They are bowling slightly quicker than Robin singh, Ganguly.

[express bowling]

It is blasphemy to call some of these guys pacers. They are bowling slightly quicker than Robin singh' date=' Ganguly.[/quote'] Ekjactly.

[maniac]

It is blasphemy to call some of these guys pacers. They are bowling slightly quicker than Robin singh' date=' Ganguly.[/quote'] The over bowled by Ishant was atrocious no doubt, but he was bowling 137-140 in that disastrous over though. TBH Robin SIngh would have done way better than some of our bowlers. Not SUpporting tundlers,just saying our bowlers lack a Plan B when they are attacked

[rkt.india]

The over bowled by Ishant was atrocious no doubt, but he was bowling 137-140 in that disastrous over though. TBH Robin SIngh would have done way better than some of our bowlers. Not SUpporting tundlers,just saying our bowlers lack a Plan B when they are attacked

First ball 130.7 half volley. Second ball no speed shown, half tracker with not much pace. Third ball 133.9 half volley. Fourth ball 137.6, better ball, back of a length, could not get under it. Fifth ball 137, another short ball. 6th ball, no speed shown. He bowled half volleys and half trackers. Not single yorker.