Speeds and Performances of Pacers and Spinners

[Suhaan]

Mohit Avasthi sseemednwrong footed but is not,pace drops there

Edited November 26, 2022 by Suhaan

[Suhaan]

Tyagi,has a habit of giving too much room to batsmen

Needs to cut it down at this level itself, glaring flaw there

Given the unforgiving nature of the two formats he needs to rectify it

Mavi wasn't bad either,looked whippy

[Need4Speed]

17 minutes ago, prudent_kreeda said:

These are swing experts , they will try them to swing the ball . Swing is not bad ,actually very very potent in this era of hitting through the line whatever might be the pace . The moment ball deviates both ways from a length they are at sea. But issue is that hardly white ball swings for 3-4 overs , A pacer need to have skills to bowl in middle over & death overs . My doubt even Paras the coach too more inclined towards swing .

Someone needs to grill these guys about bowling skills outside PP.  

even Shaheen/Naseem swing at high pace..and have reasonable control..this proves..

1-high pacers can swing the bowl you dont need trundlers for that

2-High pacers can be accurate too..with swing..and even Haris Rauf is accurate with pace..Mark Wood too..

History has many more such examples..even Bumrah does that too..

 

there is no requirement to have trundlers..if we can groom high pace bowlers to do the job…

kick these outdated oldies from mentorship/selection panels..

 

we hvnt won anything after 2011 with that old philosphy..we did very well in tests..coz we had quality pace attack at their time.. and not trundlers..

Edited November 26, 2022 by Need4Speed

[Need4Speed]

How do we submit a change.org petition or something..may be @express bowling can use one of his old posts and list the thought process and 30+ bowlers this forum is discussing and @rkt.india is finding…

if that could be put in a petition on how to groom them etc.. and we sign/sponsor/support/share that pettition and get it trending..may be bcci has to take notice..

as we are clearly not winning anything with trundlers from a very long time..its a massive faiure in thought process and will continue to be a failure..

[express bowling]

3 hours ago, Mosher said:

Can't believe Agarkar said that. Thought he was one of the sensible ones among ex-cricketers.

 

 

Bro, in yesterday's match, every Indian commentator seemed petrified that Umran will get hit for runs. It's a mental disease that the Indian cricket fraternity has towards quick bowlers.

 

Let's assume that Umran wasn't accurate (  although he was quite accurate in reality ). Now what is the repercussion of that supposed inaccuracy ? At worst he will go for runs.  

 

Now a pacer can go for runs due to lack of pace or lack of bounce too, even if he is decently accurate.  Like it happened with Arshdeep yesterday or with Bhuvi in the recent big matches.

 

But the Indian ex-cricketers find mental solace in the fact that the ball was not bowled in bad areas. In their minds, they can accept runs conceded by medium pacers trying to be accurate but they cannot accept runs from quicks trying to be aggressive and trying to take wickets 

 

It's a mental disease.

 

 

[Lone Wolf]

1 hour ago, express bowling said:

 

 

Bro, in yesterday's match, every Indian commentator seemed petrified that Umran will get hit for runs. It's a mental disease that the Indian cricket fraternity has towards quick bowlers.

 

Let's assume that Umran wasn't accurate (  although he was quite accurate in reality ). Now what is the repercussion of that supposed inaccuracy ? At worst he will go for runs.  

 

Now a pacer can go for runs due to lack of pace or lack of bounce too, even if he is decently accurate.  Like it happened with Arshdeep yesterday or with Bhuvi in the recent big matches.

 

But the Indian ex-cricketers find mental solace in the fact that the ball was not bowled in bad areas. In their minds, they can accept runs conceded by medium pacers trying to be accurate but they cannot accept runs from quicks trying to be aggressive and trying to take wickets 

 

It's a mental disease.

 

 

Umran was probably most accurate pacer in either side barring swing bowler Henry who is too experienced & playing at home. 

Doull clearly said Umran was never erratic but had issue with length.  He bowled ideal lengths in Auckland. 

Lucky boundaries,  misfield & top edges kinda ruined his numbers a little otherwise he was in a different league to other pacers. 

Kartik D bag wants his friends Boobies & Chahar & Harshal in the side...  Can't believe this chatukaar is primary BCCI hired commie.  At least Gavaskar is excited to see a Indian pacer bowling fast. 

[Vijy]

23 hours ago, express bowling said:

 

 

This TM invariably want a bowling AR at 8 to cover for the fragile top 3 who won't be dropped.

 

With the WC in India, they would want a wrist spinner and we don't have any wrist spinner AR who can bat at 7 or 8.

 

If Bishnoi or Rahul Chahar could tonk a few at 8, we could leave out the seam AR.  

 

As it stands, the bowling composition is likely to be

 

6. Hardik

7. Spin AR .. Washington / Jadeja

8. Seam AR .. Chahar / Shardul

9. Wrist spinner .. Kuldeep / Chahal / Bishnoi 

10. Pacer .. Bumrah / Siraj 

11. Pacer .. Umran / Sen / Prasidh 

 

 

we should abandon hope of wrist spinner and go for pandu + 3 surefire pacers + 2 spin ARs (sundar + axar/jaddu)

[Need4Speed]

2 hours ago, Vijy said:

we should abandon hope of wrist spinner and go for pandu + 3 surefire pacers + 2 spin ARs (sundar + axar/jaddu)

I am

happy with some finger mystery spinner too.we just need a spinner who can pick wkts too..mujeeburregman…theeksana..sunil narine etc type who has good control over line and kength shoukd work for us..

[express bowling]

Why is Shami in the ODI squad ?

[express bowling]

3 hours ago, Vijy said:

we should abandon hope of wrist spinner and go for pandu + 3 surefire pacers + 2 spin ARs (sundar + axar/jaddu)

 

Its a good template but If the TM go with this template then they will choose Jadeja, Ashwin, Bhuvi, Arshdeep, Bumrah

[Vilander]

21 hours ago, express bowling said:

Now a pacer can go for runs due to lack of pace or lack of bounce too, even if he is decently accurate.  Like it happened with Arshdeep yesterday or with Bhuvi in the recent big matches.

 

But the Indian ex-cricketers find mental solace in the fact that the ball was not bowled in bad areas. In their minds, they can accept runs conceded by medium pacers trying to be accurate but they cannot accept runs from quicks trying to be aggressive and trying to take wickets

 

This post should be framed or pinned to the site added to an article.  
 

This is the root context, mind set issue that waqar was talking about but could not express properly.  There has been rumbles from multiple fast bowlers over past year and a half Steyn Wasim Bishop Lee Akthar Waqar Bond that Indian fast bowlers like Umran etc deserve proper management and or that they are displaying elite skill levels. Only our selectors can’t find a way to shift through these pacers and find a couple that stick. Wonder how Bumrah and Shami got through man I know they predated Ravi and kohli so perhaps alignment of stars with IPl performances for boom and in case of shami he did well in domestics so just Allahs (pbh) reham. We are down to that, Devine intervention is the only way pathetic really.

[Vilander]

20 hours ago, Lone Wolf said:

 At least Gavaskar is excited to see a Indian pacer bowling fast. 

He had to cope **** at the top of the order as others were nincompoops in the lineup when India did not have any fast bowlers in his time, so is *ing elated when India dishes it back now.

[Vilander]

20 hours ago, Lone Wolf said:

Kartik D bag wants his friends Boobies & Chahar & Harshal in the side...

like express mentioned, there is a group think going on in the experts and commentators community, line and length is pace bowling and good, trying to be fast giving up line or length in the process at times and then learning to control all three plus bounce is not good in international level. 
 

[Vijy]

6 hours ago, express bowling said:

 

Its a good template but If the TM go with this template then they will choose Jadeja, Ashwin, Bhuvi, Arshdeep, Bumrah

they should choose sundar (offie at 6), pandu (pacer at 7), jaddu/axar at 8 (SLA), and 3 out-and-out pacer: boom, prasidh, and siraj/tyagi/sen

Edited November 27, 2022 by Vijy

[Vijy]

6 hours ago, express bowling said:

Why is Shami in the ODI squad ?

to show off his white beard

[Vijy]

23 hours ago, Suhaan said:

Tyagi,has a habit of giving too much room to batsmen

Needs to cut it down at this level itself, glaring flaw there

Given the unforgiving nature of the two formats he needs to rectify it

Mavi wasn't bad either,looked whippy

mavi has been among the wickets quite a bit, but I don't know if he has genuinely upped his pace (hope he has done so)

[Vijy]

On 11/26/2022 at 10:31 AM, Need4Speed said:

How do we submit a change.org petition or something..may be @express bowling can use one of his old posts and list the thought process and 30+ bowlers this forum is discussing and @rkt.india is finding…

if that could be put in a petition on how to groom them etc.. and we sign/sponsor/support/share that pettition and get it trending..may be bcci has to take notice..

as we are clearly not winning anything with trundlers from a very long time..its a massive faiure in thought process and will continue to be a failure..

there won't be more than 100s to 1000s of signers. even on ICF, there is vocal contingent of trundle-loving backers, top 3 fanbois, and so on. and if we go beyond ICF, most people seem to prefer watching trundlers

[vishalvirsingh]

i have already proposed and i am sharing it again that we should organise for a Youtube channel in which one person's duty is to just ask questions and three experts to answer.

how do you think Indian Pacers can be Improved ?

And I could answer that like fitness test , there should be also a average pace test , each bowler should be asked to bowl 10 balls continuously and their average pace recorded. that way they will realise that who are their fastest pacers and then Pick guys who are performing from that bunch of pacers-

 

like ask express - which are the best fast bowlers who should be playing for india in next 12 months?

like who are the next in line breed of upcoming pacers and all rounders?

your views about shared captaincy ?

like that..........

even the fast bowling thought process is to be maintained by selectors , umran should not be under pressure that if he does not get his radar right , he will go back to domestic cricket.

[Arvind32]

12 hours ago, Need4Speed said:

I am

happy with some finger mystery spinner too.we just need a spinner who can pick wkts too..mujeeburregman…theeksana..sunil narine etc type who has good control over line and kength shoukd work for us..

Seriously , We already have  good spinners in Bishnoi and Kuldeep Yadav . It's their bad luck that they are born in India , if someone like Boshnoi born in other country would have been no 1 bowler or similar like Rashid . Same with any Indian fans who only look talent but their team management put forward . There are not dearth of talent but lack of will to be best . 

[Lone Wolf]

Tyagi bowling  really quick today...  Already a wicket today.  Looks in great rhythm