Sidhoni Posted December 23, 2014 Posted December 23, 2014 11 matches. 1 win. 7 losses. 3 draws. You have to be absolutely blind to his faults to not see the fact that he is destroying the test team with his pathetic captaincy (and his own lack of contribution with the bat in most series') and he should (would) have been gone if not for Srini. Just 2-3 losses more and he will have the most number of losses overseas by any captain in the history of test cricket - thats in a game where Bangladesh and Zimbabwe also play......think about that.... And how many of them are innings losses or where the team meekly surrendered like in 2011? What can a captain do with a batting line up that folds up for 150 every other innings? Or with bowlers who cannot pick up 20 wickets? You give this team to whoever is the best captain in your opinion and they'll be worse if they play like they did in latter half of England. And btw his contribution with the bat in England was substantial, coming in at situations like 8/4 and scoring 70 odd.
Yoda-esque Posted December 23, 2014 Posted December 23, 2014 Sidhoni- Don't try and convince anybody. As long as you are convinced,nothing else matters.
bulbul Posted December 23, 2014 Posted December 23, 2014 Sidhoni- Don't try and convince anybody. As long as you are convinced' date='nothing else matters.[/quote'] :two_thumbs_up:
Sidhoni Posted December 23, 2014 Posted December 23, 2014 Sidhoni- Don't try and convince anybody. As long as you are convinced' date='nothing else matters.[/quote'] I am not trying to convince anyone man. Just that these guys can't stop the hate in a thread celebrating 10 years of his illustrious career. If they just overlook all his achievements and hate him squarely for overseas test defeats, something in which he is not the only culprit then IMO they are not Indian fans.
jalebi_bhai Posted December 23, 2014 Posted December 23, 2014 Best ODI finisher of all time? Ok........can the MSD fans provide 20 examples of matches where Dhoni 'single-handedly' won us matches from precarious positions? By precarious positions.......I mean situations where we needed 8-9 rpo over a period of 5-10 overs and Dhoni ended up scoring most of the runs........ Please provide scorecards if possible.......thanks in advance......
bulbul Posted December 23, 2014 Posted December 23, 2014 I am not trying to convince anyone man. Just that these guys can't stop the hate in a thread celebrating 10 years of his illustrious career. If they just overlook all his achievements and hate him squarely for overseas test defeats' date='[b'] something in which he is not the only culprit then IMO they are not Indian fans. same thing can be said about some of his achievements.
gattaca Posted December 23, 2014 Posted December 23, 2014 Best ODI finisher of all time? Ok........can the MSD fans provide 20 examples of matches where Dhoni 'single-handedly' won us matches from precarious positions? By precarious positions.......I mean situations where we needed 8-9 rpo over a period of 5-10 overs and Dhoni ended up scoring most of the runs........ Please provide scorecards if possible.......thanks in advance...... he is pretty good in odis no doubt that. There are many vs srilanka, Australia and pakistan.
jalebi_bhai Posted December 23, 2014 Posted December 23, 2014 he is pretty good in odis no doubt that. There are many vs srilanka' date=' Australia and pakistan.[/quote'] I'm not saying he is a bad player........I rate him highly in ODIs.........but this best finisher of all time tag is non-sense.........I've asked people to produce 20 instances where he single handedly chased down targets from improbable positions........no IPL bakwaas.........
sscomp32 Posted December 23, 2014 Posted December 23, 2014 Sidhoni- Don't try and convince anybody. As long as you are convinced' date='nothing else matters.[/quote'] +1.
maniac Posted December 23, 2014 Posted December 23, 2014 he is pretty good in odis no doubt that. There are many vs srilanka' date=' [b']Australia and pakistan. :hmmmm:
Austin 3:!6 Posted December 23, 2014 Posted December 23, 2014 @Jalebi - Your definition of finisher is only wrong. Cricket is a team game and you cannot expect someone to bail out a team regularly when the req run rate is touching 8-9 as per your point. It rather shows incompetence of top order. Many people says SRT could not finish off games which I do not agree either. Being an opener his job to give his team good start. Every player in the team have certain roles. What MSD specializes in is to stop the collapse of lower middle order under pressure. Collapse which you regularly see with Pakistan and South African teams. A trait which you might have seen with Indian team in Asia cup when Dhoni was not playing. Not sure if I can highlight 20 innings as per your requirement, but here are few on top of my head: 1)WC Final vs SL (2011) 2) Vs Aust in Adelaide (2012) 3) Vs Pak in Lahore (2005) 4) Vs Pak in Chennai (2012) 5) Vs SL in WI (2013) May be others can highlight few more innings. MSD is as reliable lower down the order as Bevan and has got the power as Viv. Ofcourse not in the same league as Viv Richards the batsman. But he can consolidate an innings as well as play aggressive strokes. There is a reason he avg 53 in ODI's even after 10 years of cricket.
jalebi_bhai Posted December 23, 2014 Posted December 23, 2014 @Jalebi - Your definition of finisher is only wrong. Cricket is a team game and you cannot expect someone to bail out a team regularly when the req run rate is touching 8-9 as per your point. Thank you for highlighting this.......the MSD fans will have you believe that Dhoni habitually scores 70 (30) to win us games........it is exactly the point I'm trying to put across.......this is a team game....... Many people says SRT could not finish off games which I do not agree either. Being an opener his job to give his team good start. Every player in the team have certain roles. 100% agree with you........ What MSD specializes in is to stop the collapse of lower middle order under pressure. Collapse which you regularly see with Pakistan and South African teams. A trait which you might have seen with Indian team in Asia cup when Dhoni was not playing. Ok.....so that would make consolidating his best trait right? Not sure if I can highlight 20 innings as per your requirement, but here are few on top of my head: 1)WC Final vs SL (2011) 2) Vs Aust in Adelaide (2012) 3) Vs Pak in Lahore (2005) 4) Vs Pak in Chennai (2012) 5) Vs SL in WI (2013) May be others can highlight few more innings. I'll add one more 6) India v England, 3rd ODI, Mohali (2011) http://www.espncricinfo.com/india-v-england-2011/engine/match/521220.html Match was in a precarious position......he did a good job....... The reason I mentioned 20 is because Dhoni has played 219 ODI innings.......20 innings would make it just under 10% of his total innings.......if people can't even find 20 instances when Dhoni single handedly won us games while chasing........then why brandish tags like greatest ODI finisher of all time? There is a reason he avg 53 in ODI's even after 10 years of cricket. Dhoni plays at 5/6 usually.....he has 64 not outs in 219 matches.......a little less than a third of his total innings.......that plays a big role in bumping up/skewing his average........this doesn't mean that he is a bad player........I would just like people to stop over-rating this guy........
Marut Posted December 23, 2014 Posted December 23, 2014 Thats why Viv Rictahrds had win % of 54, Clive Lloyd with 49, Border with 36 playing in the same era? Heck even Javed Miandad had an win % of 41 :phehehe: So much for Parosis claiming him to be the best Asian captain...yeah right. The WI of the 80s was an all time great team - no point comparing Imran with Viv and Lloyd. Miandad's better record was due to a high percentage of home captaincy - Miandad captained in 65% home matches whereas Imran captained only in 46% of home matches. Border too captained in a higher percentage of home matches and also had a very good team during the later half of his captaincy.
vvvslaxman Posted December 23, 2014 Posted December 23, 2014 One reason is India keeps touring the tougher teams for the damned $$$. India has been touring Eng, Australia, SA, NZ, Eng, Aus in that order since July 2011 - my god, that would be a nightmare for any captain and much more so for a SC captain. And considering India has been a team in transition during this period, having lost Tendulkar, Dravid, Laxman, Sehwag, Gambhir, Bhajji and Zaheer - and replacing them with youngsters. Dhoni is bad but he is not as bad as we project him to be. His time is up, he needs to vacate his test captaincy, but we have to agree that Dhoni has had a horrid time with the tour schedule and the resources available to him. India would not have won too many matches on these tours, but they would not have lost that many under normal circumstances. There is something called accountability. That is how Lloyd, Border built teams. You pave way for future. Dhoni tactically still acts like 1 test old captain. Every single captain who ever lost their head due to a series loss would have sh** load of excuses.. much more than Dhoni has. Ya openers suck, bowlers suck, batsmen suck.. you could come up with millions of reasons for every series loss. But at the end of the day what have you done try to change the trend? Anything out of the box? With Dhoni i only draw a blank. It is like he is telling us to get used to losses like Bangladesh fans. I honestly feel like minnow team fan when we overseas. In all my life i never felt that way. Mind you we have carried much much worse teams abroad. We never lost this badly .. innings defeats, 200 ,300 run defeats.
maniac Posted December 23, 2014 Posted December 23, 2014 CB series. http://stats.espncricinfo.com/commonwealth-bank-series-2012/engine/records/batting/most_runs_career.html?id=6632;type=tournament 14th best player and 3rd highest run getter from India....awesome indeed,Not to mention S/R of 67.00 and 2 notouts of 6 innings for a bloated average
Raghav_12 Posted December 23, 2014 Posted December 23, 2014 http://stats.espncricinfo.com/commonwealth-bank-series-2012/engine/records/batting/most_runs_career.html?id=6632;type=tournament 14th best player and 3rd highest run getter from India....awesome indeed,Not to mention S/R of 67.00 and 2 notouts of 6 innings for a bloated average I think he is referring to CB series of 2008 that India had won and Dhoni was captain. Ii I recall correctly Dhoni had well in that series with bat as well.
maniac Posted December 23, 2014 Posted December 23, 2014 I think he is referring to CB series of 2008 that India had won and Dhoni was captain. Ii I recall correctly Dhoni had well in that series with bat as well. Fair enough...3rd there as well but credit where due as he is a lower order player.... but then again the great destroyer of bowling attacks and finisher has a mammoth S/R of 73.98
Bigg Brother Posted December 23, 2014 Posted December 23, 2014 Best ODI finisher of all time? Ok........can the MSD fans provide 20 examples of matches where Dhoni 'single-handedly' won us matches from precarious positions? By precarious positions.......I mean situations where we needed 8-9 rpo over a period of 5-10 overs and Dhoni ended up scoring most of the runs........ Please provide scorecards if possible.......thanks in advance...... They will come up with ipl matches even if you have clarified about odi!!!:o:o:o;);)
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