In Kashmir, Indian security forces use pellet guns that often blind protesters

[velu]

 

 

 

 

 

[velu]

india or bharat , it refers to the same land and we follow our own culture

 

but paistan on the other had follow saudi culture

 

[Vilander]

21 hours ago, KeyboardWarrior said:

Its not Haram if you read it for the sake of the knowledge. 

FYI.  I have read some vedic/christians/jewish scriptures already. 

Keyboard

 

Scientific method: systematic observation, precise measurement,assumptions,experimentation, formulation of hypothesis/removal of assumptions, testing, re-observation and modification of hypotheses. In that rough order.

 

Key thing is modification of hypothesis and removal of assumptions on an ongoing basis.

 

This has to happen for any efficient system.

 

Is it true for Islam as well, is there room for reform/correction in Islam ? Why not.

[Vilander]

18 hours ago, KeyboardWarrior said:

I am talking about Generally not officially.

 

 

Looks like almost everyone is so proud of this name which is given by outsiders .... 

even few ICFers using this name .... 

Variety is the spice of life at times the necessity as well, i am sure name needs to standout for a business to do well and have brand recall. There are several reasons for using the name Hindustan, but it does not signify any formality or acceptance in the society or lack of it thereof.

[Vilander]

22 hours ago, KeyboardWarrior said:

can someone give me the reference from Vedas mentioning the word Hindu or Hindustan ? 

Irrelevant to start with. You are either a juvinile in your understanding or decidedly trolling.

 

Vedic literature is Hinduism's foundational literature, it is utterly Indian. Indian republic is the successor of Ancient India and hence has the right to champion/profess/uphold Vedic tradition and be a patron of Sanatana dharma. You are trying to deny this by asking for vedic reference to 'hindoostan' a term of mid millennial origin and Arabic desert dwelling bandit etymology. This is like saying there were no evidence of existence of human beings in cretaceous so humans are not from Earth. 

 

not entirely surprising though,after this

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RqGt0YV1AMQ

 

[Book_Worm]

LInk:

http://www.rediff.com/news/report/rajnath-okays-use-of-chilli-grenades-in-turbulent-kashmir/20160903.htm

Rajnath okays use of chilli grenades in turbulent Kashmir

Use of chilli-filled grenades as an alternative to pellet shotguns, which will be used in rarest of rare cases, was cleared on Saturday by Union Home Minister Rajnath Singh for crowd control ahead of the visit of an all-party delegation led by him to restive Kashmir on Sunday.

The home minister cleared the file for use of Pelargonic Acid Vanillyl Amide also called Nonivamide as an alternative to the pellet guns, official sources said.

They said as many as 1000 shells would be reaching the Kashmir Valley on Sunday.

During his two-day visit to Kashmir on August 24-25, Singh had said an alternative to pellet guns will be given to security forces in the coming days.

Pellet shotguns are, however, unlikely to be banned completely but will be used in "rarest of rare cases", they said.

 

The use of PAVA was recommended by a seven-member expert committee, headed by Joint Secretary in the Home Ministry T V S N Prasad, in its report submitted on August 29.

The panel was constituted after scores of protesters were blinded by the use of pellet guns in the Valley.

The Kashmir Valley is witnessing unrest following the killing of Hizbul Mujahideen militant Burhan Wani on July 8.

'PAVA shells', a chilli-based ammunition, is less lethal and immobilises the target temporarily.

The 'PAVA shells' were under trial for over a year at the Indian Institute of Toxicology Research, a Council of Scientific and Industrial Research laboratory in Lucknow, and its development has come at a time when Kashmir is on the boil.

[Muloghonto]

On September 1, 2016 at 4:49 AM, Asim said:

I see everywhere the 'seculars' as even bigger extremists than what they refer as 'extremist'...

Last time i checked, its religious extremists blowing themselves up and innocents due to interpretations of a 1500 year old book recited by an illiterate man from backwards part of the world, not seculars.

 

[zen]

Skimmed through some posts talking about the term Hindustan. 

 

Ind is the birthplace of Hinduism and other sister religions. So it is referred to as Hindustan

 

These religions are a part of Ind's traditional culture and a way of life which is some 4k years or so old. Everyone, no matter what religion they follow, should be proud of the culture of the land 

[beetle]

On 9/2/2016 at 5:19 AM, KeyboardWarrior said:

 

So you are Indian but your fellow ICFers are Hindustani ? Fine .... 

 

We are a diverse country 

We have many languages and we call our country and people by any of the names .

Bharat -bhartiya(Hindi)

India -Indian(English)

Hindustan-Hindustani(Hindustani.....Hindavi)

[KeyboardWarrior]

Kashmir protests: Boy's funeral draws thousands.

 

Quote

Thousands of people have defied a curfew in Indian-administered Kashmir to attend the funeral of a schoolboy whose body was found riddled with pellet wounds, local media report..

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-india-37395830

 

[The Outsider]

India is a disgraceful nation. 80 people dead, thousands injured, hundreds blinded for what? Protesting? Throwing stones? What kind of dada fucckerry are we tolerating that 12 year old kids get shot by the state and we support it? That a professor who just went out to teach was killed by our armed forces and we support it?

 

Enough is enough and a line needs to be drawn about what actions our forces can take against our citizens. On one hand we have instances where rioters are given rights to murder and rape, and on the other hand we kill because they threw stones.  Our moral compass and sense of justice is completely fff*ed up. 

 

Just looking at the body of the 12 year old who was murdered by our armed forces brings tears to the eyes.

Edited September 25, 2016 by radhika

[zen]

1 hour ago, The Outsider said:

India is a disgraceful nation. 80 people dead, thousands injured, hundreds blinded for what? Protesting? Throwing stones? What kind of dada fucckerry are we tolerating that 12 year old kids get shot by the state and we support it? That a professor who just went out to teach was killed by our armed forces and we support it?

 

Enough is enough and a line needs to be drawn about what actions our forces can take against our citizens. On one hand we have instances where rioters are given rights to murder and rape, and on the other hand we kill because they threw stones.  Our moral compass and sense of justice is completely fff*ed up. 

 

Just looking at the body of the 12 year old who was murdered by our armed forces brings tears to the eyes. 

People were not shot at for protesting. But for violating the curfew imposed due to trouble created by supporters of killed terrorists such as Wani who have been reposonsible for killing innocent Kashmiris 

 

Now the question is why were 12 years olds allowed to lead protests? What kind of folks would keep kids on the firing line. Also mob stole weapons too 

 

Armed forces are supposed to carry out their duties. If warning is not considered by the protesters, army will fire. This is how they have been programed, and this is what enables them to wipe out enemies of Inda

 

Additionally, there are reports about protesters being paid.  After the core group of instigators were caught, the protests have dramatically died down 

 

Let's not forget how Kashmiri pandits were treated and forced to leave. At the end of the day, the Kashmiri independence is done to create an Islamic state 

 

On one hand, you appear to be terrified of Hindu extremists, who are a minority. But seem to support the Islamic extremist movement (including the one in Kashmir) which a relatively large percentage of people following Islam tend to support and as seen in every almost continent 

 

Kashmir issue is about the fight b/w secular forces and Islamic extremism. Where Muslims are a majority, the extremist usually turn the country Islamic. Of all the countries with religious foundations, the majority are Islamic

 

 

Edited September 25, 2016 by radhika

[The Outsider]

1 minute ago, zen said:

People were not shot at for protesting. But for violating the curfew imposed due to trouble created by supporters of killed terrorists such as Wani's who have been reposonsible for killing innocent Kashmiris 

 

Now the question is why were 12 years olds allowed to lead protests? What kind of folks would keep kids on the firing line. Also mob stole weapons too 

 

Armed forces are supposed to carry out their duties. If warning is not considered by the protesters, army will fire. This is how they have been programed, and this is what enables them to wipe out enemies of Inda

 

Additionally, there are reports about protesters being paid. After the core group of instigators were caught, the protests have dramatically died down 

 

Let's not forget how Kashmiri pandits were treated and forced to leave. At the end of the day, the Kashmiri independence is done to create an Islamic state 

 

On one hand, you appear to be terrified of Hindu extremists, who are a minority. But seem to support the Islamic movement, which a relatively large percentage of people following Islam tend to support

 

 

What unadulterated load of garbage!

 

What happens to these armed forces in HR/GJ? Why don't they kill protesters who are arsoning and looting there? Why aren't pellet guns used in HR/GJ/KA?

 

Are these armed forces blinded that they can't see a 12 year old? Even if stones are being pelted is that justification enough to use life ending force?

 

FWIW, I don't support the Sunni led Kashmir movement for independence. But I strongly oppose and condemn disproportionate force used by the hijda government of India.

[zen]

9 minutes ago, The Outsider said:

What unadulterated load of garbage!

 

What happens to these armed forces in HR/GJ? Why don't they kill protesters who are arsoning and looting there? Why aren't pellet guns used in HR/GJ/KA?

 

Are these armed forces blinded that they can't see a 12 year old? Even if stones are being pelted is that justification enough to use life ending force?

 

FWIW, I don't support the Sunni led Kashmir movement for independence. But I strongly oppose and condemn disproportionate force used by the hijda government of India.

Is AFSPA applicable in the states that you mentioned? 

 

Are people of non Hindu religion forced to move out of these states?

 

Are these states asking for independence and/or supporting terrorists who kill innocent ppl? 

 

Do you see people from these states using kids as shields? 

 

Edited September 25, 2016 by zen

[beetle]

12 minutes ago, The Outsider said:

What unadulterated load of garbage!

 

What happens to these armed forces in HR/GJ? Why don't they kill protesters who are arsoning and looting there? Why aren't pellet guns used in HR/GJ/KA?

 

Are these armed forces blinded that they can't see a 12 year old? Even if stones are being pelted is that justification enough to use life ending force?

 

FWIW, I don't support the Sunni led Kashmir movement for independence. But I strongly oppose and condemn disproportionate force used by the hijda government of India.

It was the police forces job in those states.When the Army was called ...they did what they were authorized to do. 

The use of pellets has been even okayed by the court in JK who know the ground situation.

[The Outsider]

5 minutes ago, zen said:

Is AFSPA applicable in the states that you mentioned? 

 

Are people of non Hindu religion forced to move out of these states?

 

Are these states asking for independence and/or supporting terrorists who kill innocent ppl? 

 

Do you see people from these states using kids as shields? 

 

AFSPA is a draconian act which should be done away anyway. These are our people, our citizens. Hiding behind technicalities to justify atrocities is cowardice.

 

What does Hindu/non-Hindu have to do with the discussion? Last I read, we were still a secular state though Sanghis are trying hard to change it.

 

How does it matter what they are asking for if your are going to use pellets on 12 year olds and let rapists walk away freely? 

 

Let's assume they put kids in front, which isn't true BTW. Are those kids fair game for our hijdaas b/c they were proffered by their parents? Are they children only of them and state has no responsibility?

[The Outsider]

9 minutes ago, radhika said:

It was the police forces job in those states.When the Army was called ...they did what they were authorized to do. 

The use of pellets has been even okayed by the court in JK who know the ground situation.

Radhika, our courts are an ass if they can justify killing of 12 year olds by armed forces. Even if I assume that young children are being put in front of protests, there is absolutely no justification to shoot them for pelting stones, even if they did. 

 

 

[beetle]

2 minutes ago, The Outsider said:

AFSPA is a draconian act which should be done away anyway. These are our people, our citizens. Hiding behind technicalities to justify atrocities is cowardice.

 

What does Hindu/non-Hindu have to do with the discussion? Last I read, we were still a secular state though Sanghis are trying hard to change it.

 

How does it matter what they are asking for if your are going to use pellets on 12 year olds and let rapists walk away freely? 

 

Let's assume they put kids in front, which isn't true BTW. Are those kids fair game for our hijdaas b/c they were proffered by their parents? Are they children only of them and state has no responsibility?

The forces can get emotional about these things if they are occurrences that happen once in a while.

These are hardened (often paid ) protesters who do this day in and day out...not just to protest but also to prevent the forces from targeting arresting terrorists.If people choose to  put them selves in danger to save terrorists or to hurt the forces...there is only that much the armed forces can do to save them.Most other forces in countries  suffering from terrorism for ages like us would have used tanks and real bullets.

 

The forces are using what they have been asked to use.

 

As for twelve year olds....there are twelve year olds gang raping toddlers,working in organized gangs ,killing for pleasure.

When the twelve year olds stop acting like twelve year olds and get involved in supporting terrorists,they lose the right to be treated like twelve year olds.

[zen]

18 minutes ago, The Outsider said:

AFSPA is a draconian act which should be done away anyway. These are our people, our citizens. Hiding behind technicalities to justify atrocities is cowardice.

 

What does Hindu/non-Hindu have to do with the discussion? Last I read, we were still a secular state though Sanghis are trying hard to change it.

 

How does it matter what they are asking for if your are going to use pellets on 12 year olds and let rapists walk away freely? 

 

Let's assume they put kids in front, which isn't true BTW. Are those kids fair game for our hijdaas b/c they were proffered by their parents? Are they children only of them and state has no responsibility?

Whether AFSPA should stay or go depends upon the recommendation of the army. Considering, a) how Pak sponsored terrorism (many Kashmiris can't come back to their homes) has gripped the state, b) how extremist ideologies such as ISIS'S are being supported, AFSPA will stay 

 

If you have to ask what Hindus/Non Hindus have to a do with the discussion, it shows you don't know much about Kashmir where ppl of non Islamic religions have been discriminated against. If Hindus are not driving non Hindus out of the other states, making them live in camps, etc., not supporting terrorists with AK 47, it shows you are drawing incorrect parallels b/w Kashmir and other states 

 

Well, a 12 years old should not be leading the charge and violating curfew in the first place. Tomorrow, people will send 12 years old to throw bombs. Security forces will act against such elements irrespective of age, gender and religion

 

Fair game. Extremist elements cannot be allowed to get away by using human shields. It is not security forces problem, if these extremist elements consider their 12 years old as pawns that can be easily sacrificed. Let's not forget and managing protesters is a high pressure situation. Keep the kids inside 

 

BTW, there were reports of these extremists cowards keeping not only children but also women as shields and to attack forces

Edited September 25, 2016 by zen

[The Outsider]

3 minutes ago, radhika said:

The forces can get emotional about these things if they are occurrences that happen once in a while.

These are hardened (often paid ) protesters who do this day in and day out...not just to protest but also to prevent the forces from targeting arresting terrorists.If people choose to  put them selves in danger to save terrorists or to hurt the forces...there is only that much the armed forces can do to save them.Most other forces in countries  suffering from terrorism for ages like us would have used tanks and real bullets.

 

The forces are using what they have been asked to use.

 

As for twelve year olds....there are twelve year olds gang raping toddlers,working in organized gangs ,killing for pleasure.

When the twelve year olds stop acting like twelve year olds and get involved in supporting terrorists,they lose the right to be treated like twelve year olds.

Forget about 12 year olds, they've killed 5 year olds as well. Which gangs and rapes are they capable of running?

 

I agree with you that armed forces do what they are asked to do and hence my grudges with them are minor, but major with our political establishment who ask these people to shoot kids.