In Kashmir, Indian security forces use pellet guns that often blind protesters

[Muloghonto]

9 hours ago, The Outsider said:

Azaad Hind Force was based on a socialist ideology and had nothing to do with the Sanghis.

He was not at a school or a playground because we've imposed a curfew of 3+ months whereby such goodies are not allowed.

You've lost any semblance with reality. Bose was a socialist. What does BJP have to do with socialism?

BJP idolizes Bose's vision of independence movement. As i said, its not Gandhi vs Godse, the entire fulcrum of BJP's view is 'Nehru was an idiot and we'd have been better off under Bose'. Something i happen to agree on.

 

[The Outsider]

1 hour ago, Muloghonto said:

BJP idolizes Bose's vision of independence movement. As i said, its not Gandhi vs Godse, the entire fulcrum of BJP's view is 'Nehru was an idiot and we'd have been better off under Bose'. Something i happen to agree on.

 

LOL! Bose was a socialist. Is BJP a socialist party?

[Muloghonto]

Just now, The Outsider said:

LOL! Bose was a socialist. Is BJP a socialist party?

Do you not understand English ?

I said BJP idolizes SC Bose's vision of INDEPENDENCE MOVEMENT.

Ie, armed opposition to the Raj. Not Gandhi's BS. 

Tell us what part of that sentence is too complicated for you to understand.

 

[The Outsider]

30 minutes ago, Muloghonto said:

Do you not understand English ?

I said BJP idolizes SC Bose's vision of INDEPENDENCE MOVEMENT.

Ie, armed opposition to the Raj. Not Gandhi's BS. 

Tell us what part of that sentence is too complicated for you to understand.

 

RSS was around during Bose's time as well. Did they endorse his vision of the independence movement then? If they've changed their mind have they denounced their earlier groveling now?

[Muloghonto]

12 minutes ago, The Outsider said:

RSS was around during Bose's time as well. Did they endorse his vision of the independence movement then? If they've changed their mind have they denounced their earlier groveling now?

The RSS has endorsed the vision of Bose since atleast the Advani-Vajpayee days. Which is for the last 25 years. What happened before, is irrelevant. What matters, is what the RSS stands for now. Which is anti-Nehru/Gandhi. Which is what it should be for any Indian, regardless of religion.

 

[maniac]

On 10/16/2016 at 3:35 AM, The Outsider said:

He was not at a school or a playground because we've imposed a curfew of 3+ months whereby such goodies are not allowed.

 

So that gives him an excuse to throw stones on the street and commit arson?

 

Rightfully an arsonist was put in his place.

 

or are you saying he was a crusader of social justice?

 

Stop feeling sad for such scum...this only increases tensions and misguided anger.

 

Lesson learnt from here should be  No matter how old you are if you are an arsonist or menace to society  the law and order will put you in place but looks like you are interpreting it as law and order is killing babies sucking on their baby formula.

Edited October 17, 2016 by maniac

[Laaloo]

Meanwhile

 

 

Police officer stoned to death in Jammu and Kashmir

 

 

http://www.dnaindia.com/india/report-police-officer-stoned-to-death-in-jammu-and-kashmir-2264681

[BeautifulGame]

RSS and Netaji

The irony of the whole farce :headshake:

[SLICKR392]

5 hours ago, laaloo said:

Meanwhile

 

 

Police officer stoned to death in Jammu and Kashmir

 

 

http://www.dnaindia.com/india/report-police-officer-stoned-to-death-in-jammu-and-kashmir-2264681

Doesn't matter to some people here. Because it does not support their arguments on an internet forum.

[mishra]

15 minutes ago, BeautifulGame said:

RSS and Netaji

The irony of the whole farce :headshake:

You know RSS from MSM

[BeautifulGame]

You know RSS from MSM

Yeah right

It's becoz of MSM why Vallabhai Patel suggested banning them .

The same person whose identity RSS shamelessly trying to steal

[Muloghonto]

9 hours ago, BeautifulGame said:

RSS and Netaji

The irony of the whole farce :headshake:

 

I don't think you actually follow RSS or have followed them. If you did, you'd know that atleast since the Vajpayee era, RSS has openly said that Nehru was a disaster for India (Which is true) and if Bose had been around, things would've been a lot better (which is probably true). 

The  Bose > Nehru has been a consistent comparative position of RSS/BJP for atleast 20+ years.

[BeautifulGame]

 

I don't think you actually follow RSS or have followed them. If you did, you'd know that atleast since the Vajpayee era, RSS has openly said that Nehru was a disaster for India (Which is true) and if Bose had been around, things would've been a lot better (which is probably true). 

The  Bose > Nehru has been a consistent comparative position of RSS/BJP for atleast 20+ years.

They just pretend that because they have no legacy during independence movement so obviously trying to hide under Netaji's name because he in his later parts was strongly against Congress/Gandhiji ideology to achieve independence .

Nothing to do with believing in his ideology .

[Muloghonto]

1 minute ago, BeautifulGame said:

They just pretend that they have no legacy during independence movement so obviously trying to hide under Netaji's name because he in his later parts was strongly against Congress/Gandhiji ideology to achieve independence .

Nothing to do with believing in his ideology .

Obviously not. RSS is a conservative right wing organization economically and Netaji was a super-leftist 'almost communist but not quite' in his economic policies.

But it is important to acknowledge that Nehru did India far more harm than good and 90% of India's socio-economic & global strategic problems are because of the ineptitude of Jawaharlal Nehru. Congress will never, ever admit that the biggest disaster in independent Indian history is Nehru, so kudos to RSS to bring this to the spotlight, regardless of their affiliations.

All the RSS is showing with their Netaji support, is that their policy is more nuanced than Congress and they are not above supporting opposing philosophies to their own, so long as there is a clear benefit. This is a hallmark of western democracy, where opposition doesnt oppose simply to oppose and there are plenty of bills introduced by the ruling parties in western parliaments that have opposition backing as well. Congress is never going to do that and therefore, highlights that it is a less evolved party than RSS.

 

[mishra]

2 hours ago, BeautifulGame said:

Yeah right

It's becoz of MSM why Vallabhai Patel suggested banning them .

The same person whose identity RSS shamelessly trying to steal

That is because people associated with RSS has changed. How many Vallabh Bhai peried RSSers are left in country. So has philosophy. If you attend few sessions, you will realise that if RSS'er take great pride in Maha Rana Pratap and Shivaji, they take great pride In Indiraji too. Discuss principles of Swami Vivekanand almost every month.

 

Also, I was in the region (unfortunately both occasions) when earth quake struck in Latur and also In Gujrat. The work done by RSS activists and the professionalism shown by them was exemplary. I can guarantee that no other organisation in India can come to support Indians when they are in real distress. All NGOs i see are good at giving award and doing media interviews or sitting on dharana.

 

Now fast farward it, In recent past despite India Nepal Standoff, people assovciated with RSS were helping Nepalese. I havent got details of work done by RSS when flood hit in Uttarakhand but iirc i attended a charity event organised by them for victims. So they must have been involved heavily there too.

 

Now name one NGO which has been doing such great work.

I have seen them, very up and close before making these assertion.

 

 

Edited October 18, 2016 by mishra

[mishra]

^ IF, People call them right wing because, after a big speech, instead of giving standing ovation,  reverberating the hall with claps to appreciate importance of speaker and its quality speech, All the activist just do is say Om. They think it keeps the pride away. I dont see any problem in that.

 

On lighter note, Its because of good work of Shakha that Brits beat Aussies in Kabaddi. Every Indian origin player in British Kabbadi team including the captain is associated with Shakha

Edited October 18, 2016 by mishra

[Muloghonto]

36 minutes ago, mishra said:

^ IF, People call them right wing because, after a big speech, instead of giving standing ovation,  reverberating the hall with claps to appreciate importance of speaker and its quality speech, All the activist just do is say Om. They think it keeps the pride away. I dont see any problem in that.

 

On lighter note, Its because of good work of Shakha that Brits beat Aussies in Kabaddi. Every Indian origin player in British Kabbadi team including the captain is associated with Shakha

No, the RSS are right wing, in the same way the Tea Party is right wing, the 'Leave EU' party in UK, etc. etc. 

They are right wing because they clearly espouse a hindu ideology and more importantly, refuse to concede that our education system, national policy, etc. should be completely secular and free of religious mumbo-jumbo. 

But, and it is a critical but, they are lesser of the two evils than congress, since they are a lukewarm right wing party and nowhere as extreme as the standard, openly right wing parties are in Europe/North America. Given the choice between them and the dynastic, inept and 'dedicated to politicize the minority-majority/religion issue' congress, its RSS for any sane, logical and forward-thinking person.

 

[mishra]

4 minutes ago, Muloghonto said:

No, the RSS are right wing, in the same way the Tea Party is right wing, the 'Leave EU' party in UK, etc. etc. 

They are right wing because they clearly espouse a hindu ideology and more importantly, refuse to concede that our education system, national policy, etc. should be completely secular and free of religious mumbo-jumbo. 

But, and it is a critical but, they are lesser of the two evils than congress, since they are a lukewarm right wing party and nowhere as extreme as the standard, openly right wing parties are in Europe/North America. Given the choice between them and the dynastic, inept and 'dedicated to politicize the minority-majority/religion issue' congress, its RSS for any sane, logical and forward-thinking person.

 

There is massive difference between leave EU type people vs RSS. At the end of it all, They genuinely want a better India, prosperous India, a powerful India, a proud India.

 

Kabaddi example was deliberate. Their members play cricket, mostly football,  but they also teach Kabaddi to their kids, few more games which i played at school but are dead now. They teach Vasudeva Kutumbakam. Isnt that so called leftist teach too. So why call it leftist idea. Why not call it Indian principle and have pride in that?

 

They have no issues if Hindus become athiest, or not going to temple or being leftist. But if someone is giving up idea of Vasudeva Kutumbkam in the name of choice of religion, they are opposed to it. They know its happenning because their is money, twisted idelogy,greed and orgs involved which are systematically/randomly executing it

 

 

[Muloghonto]

27 minutes ago, mishra said:

There is massive difference between leave EU type people vs RSS. At the end of it all, They genuinely want a better India, prosperous India, a powerful India, a proud India.

 

Kabaddi example was deliberate. Their members play cricket, mostly football,  but they also teach Kabaddi to their kids, few more games which i played at school but are dead now. They teach Vasudeva Kutumbakam. Isnt that so called leftist teach too. So why call it leftist idea. Why not call it Indian principle and have pride in that?

 

They have no issues if Hindus become athiest, or not going to temple or being leftist. But if someone is giving up idea of Vasudeva Kutumbkam in the name of choice of religion, they are opposed to it. They know its happenning because their is money, twisted idelogy,greed and orgs involved which are systematically/randomly executing it

 

 

Because Hinduism is not a monolithically codified religion like Islam/Christianity/Judaism, the RSS doesn't, strictly speaking, tow an orthodox religious line. What it does, is tow a mythical pseudo-religious-cultural line, which is really what 'Hinduvta' is. 

Things like Vasudeva Kutumbakam. Because Indians are not the first, nor the last people to come up with the idea of oneness of the world and even if it is, the entire idea of 'taking pride in Indian principle of how the world is one family because we are Indians' is one big, giant paradox.

Why take nationalistic pride in a quote about non-nationalism ? 

 

The point is, 'Hinduvta' is a cultural-religious composite analog to the quintessential muslim or the quintessential Christian. The only difference is, in Hinduvta, the concepts  of religion are more relaxed, the concepts of 'culture' is more constrained. But in reality, they work the same way as all religious fundamentalist groups do, which is protectionism of the past and frowning upon the freedom to individualize culture and lifestyle.

 

It may be happening to the poor in India due to money, ideology & politics. but the bulk majority of educated Indians who reject Hinduvta, do it the same reason why liberal westerners reject classical Christianity/Judeo-Christian cultural ethos. Because it is nothing more than a ball-n-chain from the past, kept alive in the name of 'nationalism'. 

I don't feel any cultural aspect need to be preserved. If it is useful to us, it will survive and the day some cultural concept becomes non-useful, it should perish, no-matter how 'ingrained and long-standing' it is to our cultural history.

 

For eg, when i see an Indian woman wearing a western pant-suit at work instead of a Sari, i don't feel 'sad' that our Indian culture is 'dying', i feel happy that a biped had chosen a more comfortable and functional clothing for movement, which is fundamental to most jobs instead of something that looks pretty but is pretty much the most impractical thing ever to wear if one wishes to move around a lot. 

 

Edited October 18, 2016 by Muloghonto

[mishra]

^ Again, You are making the mistake of using same paint of religion on Hinduism. RSS is not saying you do not follow any religion. Its not saying you do NOT have a freedom to choose the religion. What it is saying is why NOT make educate people to make a informed choice.  After all, dont you think its government responsibility to educate its people and cultivate morality and ethics.

Educate its kids and people and then Let them decide if they want to give up concept of Vasudeva Kutumbkam for a imaginary King of heaven or post life Hoors. HAve a debate if Vasudeva Kutumbkam means only brow skinned Indian looking people or Koreans, Chechans, Mexicans, Germans, Ugandans included too.

 

I am a Hindu because I am born in a Hindu family. Some icfers follow other religion because they are born that religion. But why cant government put a effort that people know what India and inhabitants of Land stood for. What was their philosophy, what was their culture. How some changes came about among Indians. Why those chapters are completely struck off from school text books. Why let religion and religious leader take complete control on what and how we should behave? Why NOT empower people to make choice?

 

 

For your example, The very same women should be able to proudly wear a Saari in social gathering. She shouldnt be made to feel backward, uneducated and treated differently when she is wearing a Sari instead of a Skirt with pencil heels at public place

 

Edited October 18, 2016 by mishra