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Election Day in America

Cricketics

By Cricketics
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Tibarn Community Regular

Tibarn

Posted
Posted (edited)
10 minutes ago, Muloghonto said:

No, it is the most irrational & nonsensical philosophy that states everyone pays for everything they use or they go without. Ie, just code-word for ultra-elitism. The most rational & successful philosophy of the western world is Scandinavian 'socialism', aka Free market democracy plus welfare state.

 

I think you are confusing what Socialism is. Socialism is the state control production, the means of production, distribution, exchange, transactions, etc. You are confusing it with Welfare which is simply giving benefits to citizens. Libertarians also discuss possible welfare measures, such as UBI. The Nordic countries, as well as the entire first world is capitalist. The entire first world is higher than any other countries in ease of doing business, low regulation of business, low interference of government in business,  etc. This is literally capitalism, as private entities own the means of production, exchange, and distribution. There is literally no economist worth a grain of salt that would describe Scandinavia as Socialist. A socialist country is Venezuela or our own India, where the government is literally involved in everything.

 

 

However let's not derail this thread, we can open a new one if you want to discuss this.

   

Edited by Tibarn
Muloghonto Grand Master

Muloghonto

Posted
Posted
Just now, Tibarn said:

I think you are confusing what Socialism is. Socialism is the state control production, the means of production, distribution, exchange, transactions, etc. You are confusing it with Welfare which is simply giving benefits to citizens. Libertarians also discuss possible welfare measures, such as UBI. The Nordic countries, as well as the entire first world is capitalist. The entire first world is higher than any other countries in ease of doing business, low regulation of business, low interference of government in business,  etc. This is literally capitalism, as private entities own the means of production, exchange, and distribution. There is literally no economist worth a grain of salt that would describe Scandinavia as Socialist.

 

However let's not derail this thread, we can open a new one if you want to discuss this.

A socialist country is Venezuela or our own India, where the government is literally involved in everything.    

I am not confusing anything, which is why i put socialism in quotations- its the 'common-speak' for what Scandinavia does. This is why i said free-market democracy + welfare state. Because that is what Scandinavia actually is and that is what 99% people mean when they say 'Scandinavian socialism'. 

Libertarianism is just code for elitist feudalism. Where everyone pays for everything, there are no taxes, no government beyond the bare-bone essentials, perpetrating class systems based on money. Ie, medieval Europe, minus the divine right to rule. 

Tibarn Community Regular

Tibarn

Posted
Posted
6 minutes ago, Muloghonto said:

I am not confusing anything, which is why i put socialism in quotations- its the 'common-speak' for what Scandinavia does. This is why i said free-market democracy + welfare state. Because that is what Scandinavia actually is and that is what 99% people mean when they say 'Scandinavian socialism'. 

Libertarianism is just code for elitist feudalism. Where everyone pays for everything, there are no taxes, no government beyond the bare-bone essentials, perpetrating class systems based on money. Ie, medieval Europe, minus the divine right to rule. 

The use of the word socialism is wrong, Scandinavian socialism is an oxymoron. One literally can't be both socialist and capitalist. You are confusing disparate economic terms. It is like saying someone is both overweight and underweight at the same time. 

 

Socialism leads to feudalism, a libertarian society allows the best to rise and the worst to fall. That is the most rational system. You are also wrongly attributing aspects to libertarianism that isn't a defining quality.

 

Once again, if you want to discuss this, let's start a new thread, we really need to leave this thread for its purpose.   

Muloghonto Grand Master

Muloghonto

Posted
Posted
Just now, Tibarn said:

The use of the word socialism is wrong, Scandinavian socialism is an oxymoron. One literally can't be both socialist and capitalist. You are confusing disparate economic terms. It is like saying someone is both overweight and underweight at the same time. 

 

Socialism leads to feudalism, a libertarian society allows the best to rise and the worst to fall. That is the most rational system. You are also wrongly attributing aspects to libertarianism that isn't a defining quality.

 

Once again, if you want to discuss this, let's start a new thread, we really need to leave this thread for its purpose.   

When you get a bit older, you will realize that message boards and common speech are not about technicalities, they are about popular perception. 

That is precisely why i used the word 'socialism' in quotations and provided the specifics of Scandinavian socialism, since while the description provided is a technical one, the term used is the one most people use in common parlance. 

 

There is nothing rational about the Libertarian system, since if there was no social support systems whatsoever, then the rich stay rich and poor stay poor with zero upwards mobility. The defining quality of libertarianism is small government and small taxes, which translates to lack of social programs. 
Yet, as Scandinavia is proving it to the world, the best system is free-market capitalism + welfare state. The common man wins far more in that system than in Libertarian system.

 

There is a reason why libertarian system has consistently been super popular amongst>20 & <30 year old demographic and highly unpopular in  any other: it takes time for people to realize that it is simply code-word for ultra-elitism.

 

sandeep Grand Master

sandeep

Posted
Posted
5 hours ago, Cricketics said:

Lol you love wasting your time. I am staying safe so I am not part of of this election which will give us the worst president of our time, regardless of who becomes. They both are absolute crap. Unless you are going out to vote for Jill Stein or johnson.

 

 

I'm no Hillary fan, but this type of false equivalence only has ignorance or wilful blindness as its basis.  

cowboysfan Grand Master

cowboysfan

Posted
Posted
6 hours ago, Cricketics said:

Lets track the fun.

 

I am not voting. Screw both of them. My favorite was John Kasich or Rand Paul.

 

Trump is going out right now to vote for himself.

 

its good you didnt vote ,they two are utter Bozos.

 

 

 

 

Tibarn Community Regular

Tibarn

Posted
Posted (edited)

Reports of lines blocks long still; there may be an insane turnout this year. 

 

Also, internal surveys from Trump camp apparently show a tough night according to CNN.

 

Modiji better get ready for a hostile President in the White House. 

Edited by Tibarn
Tibarn Community Regular

Tibarn

Posted
Posted (edited)

Update: Florida is right now for Hillary, but they have counted Democrat heavy districts so far;

 

Virginia: Trump has a 53-42 lead, that would be an upset.

 

Republicans likely retain Senate: implies that Hillary will be restrained at least the 1st 2 years of her presidency.

Edited by Tibarn
Tibarn Community Regular

Tibarn

Posted
Posted (edited)

This is ABSURD: Trump is leading in Wisconsin, one of the more solid blue states.

 

Hillary eeks through in Virginia

 

Comes down to Michigan, safe for Hillary now. 

Edited by Tibarn
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