Our power hitters in Loi's!! Who are they?

[Cricketics]

5 minutes ago, BeautifulGame said:

To be fair u mentioned it the team for CT final .That's why it was confusing .

Read it later fair enough but still don't agree with the bowling line up though.

Ya, bowling is something may be I might not have the best combo. But we have to try different things.

 

I hope that Pandya can hold well in this series as it can solve lot of things for us.

[maniac]

14 hours ago, express bowling said:

True....big hitters are those who can  (   hit big sixes quite regularly +  hit the ball very powerfully  )

 

Kapil, Kirti Azad, Bedade, Yuvraj, Dhoni, Rohit ( somewhat ),  KL Rahul ( somewhat )  and Hardik Pandya  would qualify among those who have already represented India

 

Uncapped ones will be Pant, Kishan, Hooda ( somewhat ) and Krunal.

 

Raina was a good finisher in his day though....but past his peak.

lol you have guaranteed Hardik Pandya as a sure shot big hitter and Rohit as somewhat???

 

Rohit has cleared some big grounds with ease with his 6 hitting.

 

if you meant more in the sense that Hardik might be a designated lower order power hitter because Rohit is the top order batsman who needs to play all roles than fair enough.

 

but right now rohit is the only biggest 6 hitter we have in the side capable of clearing any ground...dhoni can make a case too but he has lost that hitting ability against pace bowling which he had in his prime.

Edited December 31, 2016 by maniac

[sandeep]

5 hours ago, Cricketics said:

To be honest other than a nutcase  like me,  I think above your post, pretty much everyone is wanting Pandya to play or is a big fan of Pandya or at least consider him a good all rounder prospect.

I am the only one perhaps who is being conservative and is being stingy on this but have my reasons and have explained it.

 

Time for the Lord of the Ring Pandya to come out and show the world what he got so we can say "Pandya ban gaya Gentleman."

 

There are plenty of other doubters on ICF who view Pandya as a bowler who can bat when in fact he's the other way around.  Not saying he's a proven international quality yet in either, but even though his bowling will determine how his career turns out, his batting is his stronger discipline.  

 

With his high backlift and just about OK footwork, he's not going to be an automatic success at the international level with the bat, but he has a shot.  Especially if he can stay fit and keep bowling at good pace.   And adds some variety to his bowling other than the stock short of length quick ball.  

 

Also, I can't fathom why you are ready to write off Pandya's bowling, but for some reason are fascinated enough with Negi to get him a starting slot in an ODI XI in England.   Something very wrong there.  

 

[rkt.india]

13 hours ago, Cricketics said:

I just feel it is too early and from what I saw him in Australia, he got away with some some of the bad balls he bowled.

 

Even against New Zealand, he gave us good start but is still averaging 35 over all as he does not look the bowler who can consistently apply pressure or cause oppositions to lose their run rate. 

Can you name one Indian pacer apart from Shami and Bumrah who averages less than 30 in odis currently. BK has an average of 38. Yadav is 30 plus too, Ishant 30 plus. If our specialist bowlers haven't done that great then it is better someone who can give you two options batting and bowling.

[rkt.india]

13 hours ago, Cricketics said:

Historically we always need our bats to bowl overs most times. Like Raina has done, so yeah we will always need some contribution from our bats to bowl if we have any bowler who is going at a pretty high econ rate. Yes in that situation we will need to have backup bowlers and that is where my exact problem is. If a bowler other than Pandya is going for runs and since I do not rate Pandya "much" we could be in for some serious trouble even defending 315-330 scores. 

 

Poor Bhuvi will have to protect all the runs alone.

 

My worry is having Umesh and Hardik as part of same bowling attack. This will eventually cost us lot of games. 

Your Bhuvi averages 38 in ODI cricket. How would you defend that?

[Cricketics]

1 hour ago, rkt.india said:

Your Bhuvi averages 38 in ODI cricket. How would you defend that?

He has sucked in ODI's and is a better bowler. That is the only way I can describe. Hence the reason I mentioned earlier that we have been poor as a bowling unit in ODI's. 

[express bowling]

8 hours ago, maniac said:

lol you have guaranteed Hardik Pandya as a sure shot big hitter and Rohit as somewhat???

 

Rohit has cleared some big grounds with ease with his 6 hitting.

 

if you meant more in the sense that Hardik might be a designated lower order power hitter because Rohit is the top order batsman who needs to play all roles than fair enough.

 

but right now rohit is the only biggest 6 hitter we have in the side capable of clearing any ground...dhoni can make a case too but he has lost that hitting ability against pace bowling which he had in his prime.

 

Rohit can be a power-hitter when he wants to but his playing style is much more than that.  He does not always use the power that he has and uses a lot of pure-timing based strokes too.

 

His batting position at the top of the order also contributes to that plying style. 

 

Players  like Yuvraj and Dhoni  used power in almost every big hit they tried.  Hardik Pandya has this tendency too.   Rohit sometimes uses power in his big hits and some of the big hits are just sublime timing.

 

I was talking more about playing styles and batting roles rather than lack of ability.

Edited January 1, 2017 by express bowling

[rkt.india]

32 minutes ago, Cricketics said:

He has sucked in ODI's and is a better bowler. That is the only way I can describe. Hence the reason I mentioned earlier that we have been poor as a bowling unit in ODI's. 

let him play a 5 tests one flat Indian pitches and even there his average will fall to 40 like it was before that one test in WI and one test on a green track in Kolkata. That average in tests looks good only because he has not been played in flat pitches in test cricket much.

[Cricketics]

2 minutes ago, rkt.india said:

let him play a 5 tests one flat Indian pitches and even there his average will fall to 40 like it was before that one test in WI and one test on a green track in Kolkata. That average in tests looks good only because he has not been played in flat pitches in test cricket much.

I do not want to start the whole Bhuvi debate again, you know my verdict on him and I know the views of many too on Bhuvi. Let time decide now. You will get humbled on Bhuvi

[express bowling]

12 hours ago, Cricketics said:

 You care so much for Pandya's bowling when Bhuvi bowls about similar pace. It is not that Pandya is bowling faster like Starc. 

No

 

Pandya was bowling 135 k to 146 k in the NZ ODI series.  Gets some bounce and has a good bouncer.

 

Bhuvi bowls 130 k to 140 k in ODIs.   He is obviously more skilled than Pandya.

[rkt.india]

10 minutes ago, Cricketics said:

I do not want to start the whole Bhuvi debate again, you know my verdict on him and I know the views of many too on Bhuvi. Let time decide now. You will get humbled on Bhuvi

I do want him to play on typical Indian pitches and that will really tell where he stands. I am not against him, good if he does well, but just cannot see that happening.

[Samcric]

4 hours ago, rkt.india said:

Your Bhuvi averages 38 in ODI cricket. How would you defend that?

ODIs are a different ball-game altogether compared to tests when it comes to wicket-taking vs restricting runs. Here are the economy rates:

BK: 4.9

Shami: 5.5

Umesh: 6

 

Becomes a bit tricky arguing for one against the other. Essentially, you have to decide which of the below two scenarios would you be more happy with after 40 overs if you are bowling:

 

180/1

230/4

 

If I am the bowling captain and if I have a couple of bowlers who can bowl yorkers consistently, I would be happier with the first scenario. To me, 0-35 is better than 3-65. And mind you, ICC ODI bowling rankings has a similar logic. So, I don't think you can only look at averages only.

 

[express bowling]

^

 

In ODI, Shami playing in place of Bhuvi would mean one more wicket and 5 more runs  in his  quota of 10 overs  compared to Bhuvi   ( considering their wickets per match  and ER )

 

If that extra wicket is a crucial one then it can lead to much less overall runs by our opposition in that match.

Edited January 1, 2017 by express bowling

[rkt.india]

57 minutes ago, Samcric said:

ODIs are a different ball-game altogether compared to tests when it comes to wicket-taking vs restricting runs. Here are the economy rates:

BK: 4.9

Shami: 5.5

Umesh: 6

 

Becomes a bit tricky arguing for one against the other. Essentially, you have to decide which of the below two scenarios would you be more happy with after 40 overs if you are bowling:

 

180/1

230/4

 

If I am the bowling captain and if I have a couple of bowlers who can bowl yorkers consistently, I would be happier with the first scenario. To me, 0-35 is better than 3-65. And mind you, ICC ODI bowling rankings has a similar logic. So, I don't think you can only look at averages only.

 

Is it possible to have a 0-35 analysis for a bowler in a 300 run game? Thing is if you don't take wickets, you can't stop runs too. Neither I am saying 3/65 is good. Wickets and economy are not mutually exclusive to each other. Both are bad in whichever way you look at them. If Yadav is not good then nor is BK. 

Edited January 1, 2017 by rkt.india

[Samcric]

2 hours ago, rkt.india said:

Is it possible to have a 0-35 analysis for a bowler in a 300 run game? Thing is if you don't take wickets, you can't stop runs too. Neither I am saying 3/65 is good. Wickets and economy are not mutually exclusive to each other. Both are bad in whichever way you look at them. If Yadav is not good then nor is BK. 

My point wasn't regarding Yadav or BK but that we can't look at averages only in ODIs. Obviously if a bowler has a great Eco rate AND a good average, it becomes a no-brainer. Just that things are not that simple if a bowler offers only one of them. Can either keep things quiet but has a bad average (Axar patel has been doing that recently and is ranked 9th in the world) or is expensive but gets wickets (Amit mishra).

[rkt.india]

12 minutes ago, Samcric said:

My point wasn't regarding Yadav or BK but that we can't look at averages only in ODIs. Obviously if a bowler has a great Eco rate AND a good average, it becomes a no-brainer. Just that things are not that simple if a bowler offers only one of them. Can either keep things quiet but has a bad average (Axar patel has been doing that recently and is ranked 9th in the world) or is expensive but gets wickets (Amit mishra).

Axar has an average of 30 with an ER of 4.39. average of 30 is pretty good considering 300 is par these days at most places. Mishra has an average of 23 with an ER of 4.72 so it's not high but what works against Mishra is he doesn't play regularly and most of his wickets are against minnows.

Edited January 1, 2017 by rkt.india

[express bowling]

3 minutes ago, rkt.india said:

Axar has an average of 30 with an ER of 4.39. average of 30 is pretty good considering 300 is par these days at most places.

and Mishra has an ER of only 4.7....he is not expensive as he says

[rkt.india]

2 minutes ago, express bowling said:

and Mishra has an ER of only 4.7....he is not expensive as he says

Most of Mishra's wickets are against minnows that goes against him and he also doesn't play regularly.

[express bowling]

2 minutes ago, rkt.india said:

Most of Mishra's wickets are against minnows that goes against him and he also doesn't play regularly.

Yes....but he is not a good example of an expensive bowler who takes wickets, as the poster above claims

[prudent_kreeda]

Hi All 

This is my fist post though i am a regular visitor here for the past 3 years .

Always check rkt posts  with interest . 

My 2 cents on one day team set up going forward.

1. I think we need to lower our expectations re: induction of new talent in shorter format till CT 2017. With MSD at the helm i do not think we may not see many changes,  even though fair number of ICFERS do want to see new faces .   But i will be disappointed if new guys do not come in post CT 2017.

2.Will be happy if Pant & Kuldeep get inducted in either T20 or 50 overs in ENG series in JAN . This is my least expectation.

3. MSD is not what he was . You just need to see some of the videos from 2015 till 2008  and his current way of batting.  Hence i would be keenly watching his knocks to see

a)  has he found a way to counter wide outside of off yorkers and get runs ?

b) his single /2 taking  consistency  - what is recently noticed  is he just taps balls with no real intent to get even singles and then tries to hit a boundary/Six.  This disrupts batting flow  esp . in middle overs . Imagine rampaging Virat at one end and MSD not rotating strike very frequently . 

c) His favourite scoring option - a bunt to the onside and scampering for 2 runs . I think most of the teams now very aware of it and will plan for it .

d) His ability to counter fast Short pitched bowling.

If he has ironed out the above shortcoming i am still OK if he plays  at 4 or 5  purely as a batsman . In any case IMHO he should hang his boots  post CT2017 . Mind you he was the best one day captain of India and finisher. No arguments there .  But now age has caught up.

4. Many here seem to suggest we need big hitters . I would rather want to see a skillful player at 5 who is innovative against spin and a busy player who is adept at taking singles and looks to be better equipped to protect his wicket too. . I think we need such a guy among some big hitters in 6 &7 positions . I think  2 best options keeping future in mind at 5 are - Nair & Manish. Nair with his reverse sweep , sweep and slog sweep looks to be a better bet . Manish though good takes too many risks and a bit inconsistent in my view till this point in time . If we see every team now has 1-2 spinners and hence we need players who can disrupt normal filed placings opposition teams employ and concede only singles in middle overs .  Only KL & Nair have such shots currently among new faces ( Apart from Rohit & Virat among established ones ).

5. Who are the new faces i want to see - Pant , Kuldeep, Natarajan , Deepak Hooda, Karun Nair .

6. I also want to see that one magic ball developed by Ashwin - which Saqlain used to bowl when batters try to go after him. That magic ball comes at a slower speed and bounces a bit more . I think he is trying to bowl that -  Please see video of Madras test where Manjrekar analyses different variations of Ash bowling. If he masters that ball , i think he will be dangerous in one dayers when slogging is on. 

7. I think we need another good death bowler to partner Bumrah. Should bowl yorkers consistently . If any of the current lot reaches that level - nothing like it . Pinning my hopes on Nartarajan among the newer lot. He is a leftie to boot. 

8. I hope Kumble & Virat make Kuldeep part of india 15 , so that he gets to train under indian team to learn tricks of the trade , physical fitness , bowling to classy players in nets - so that his learning curve is fast and he becomes consistent in his line & length.  Once he reaches that level India will be formidable both in test & one dayers .

9. I dream of a india one day team with 2 classy spinners ( Ash with new magic ball ) and 2 very good death bowlers . There is no worry about batters for me .

RKT ...  would like your views