Final Test of Dhoni's character if he is someone who cares for Indian cricket

[maniac]

Harbhajan till date worships Anil Kumble as his guru who put ego and insecurity aside and mentored him.

 

Virat,Rohit,Rahane,Dhawan or any young Indian batsman still act like fanboys when they gush about Sachin,Dravid,Laxman etc because despite being superstars they always mentored these guys.

 

First let me set some things straight-I don't hate Dhoni. I think he is a gun player.He is the 2nd best WK-Bat of all time behind Gilchrist and India's 2nd big MVP after Kapil Dev.

 

Now you might say Dhoni backed likes of Rohit,Ishant,Jadeja etc all who went on to have decent to great careers for India and won many matches under his leadership similar to Zak,Bhajji,Yuvraj,Nehra backed by Ganguly.

 

Now the problem is there is never a debate about Dhoni's on-field commitment be it with the bat or as a keeper. He always gave in a 100% on a personal front. Did he inspire,motivate others to do the same,well that can be a different debate.

 

Now backing players people may or may not agree with as long as he believes they will win him games as a captain is fair enough. I don't think Dhoni was a visionary who saw the future either but that too like my previous point can be a different debate

 

Let us take the example of Kapil- As a cricketer there is no doubt in anyone's mind that he was the top 3 ever produced by India,Some might even make a fair case for him being No.1 but when it comes to the legacy of what he did for the benefit for the future of Indian cricket,people kind of look down on him and he drops a notch below the likes of Sachin,Saurav,Laxman,Dravid,Kumble. the reason being once Kapil retired,as good as Srinath was by the time he finished-he was nowhere near ready when Kapil was done.He was still a raw material. Kapil leaving is such a huge gap that we haven't been able to fill it to this day.

 

With Dhoni there is a shot at that legacy here. Dhoni has decided to hang around as a player,while the negatives can be argued,let us look at the bright side of how much good this can do if he does the right things. Right now Indian cricket has at least 3 young keeper-bats knocking on the door of the international side to be the future Dhoni.

 

Will Dhoni keep playing as a keeper-bat to suddenly leave a huge void when he retires or will he take a young keeper-bat like Pant,Samson or Kishan under his wings and make the transition as smooth as possible?

 

This right there will cement Dhoni's legacy. I personally thought Dhoni was a committed individual but is he going to go far and beyond to groom a heir. This will be the final test of Dhoni's character to be a once great player or India's greatest. 

 

 

Edited January 4, 2017 by maniac

[gattaca]

Virat etc praise tendulkar because of what they learnt from him. What are Ishan and pant expecting from dhoni ? Batting technique ? Dhoni is very unorthodox with his batting. Glove work ? This can be taugtht to a little extent but they can improve as the progress in their carrers. Handling pressure ? This is something very difficult to teach someone. 

Edited January 4, 2017 by gattaca

[maniac]

Just now, gattaca said:

Virat etc praise tendulkar because of what they learnt from him. What are Ishan and pant expecting from dhoni ? Batting technique ? Dhoni is very unorthodox with his batting. Glove work ? This can't be taugtht to a little extent but they can improve as the progress in their carrers. Handling pressure ? This is something very difficult to teach someone. 

Will they be allowed to play in the same team as him,for starters?

 

The only time he took out gloves was to bowl that infamous over in the Lord's test otherwise held tightly to it.....Dhoni can play as a batsman and let a young keeper keep for a change.....that would be a start

[gattaca]

4 minutes ago, maniac said:

Will they be allowed to play in the same team as him,for starters?

 

The only time he took out gloves was to bowl that infamous over in the Lord's test otherwise held tightly to it.....Dhoni can play as a batsman and let a young keeper keep for a change.....that would be a start

Dhoni is no longer the captain. He can't select players or ask the selection committee. This will be the job of new ODI captain and selecting committee.

Edited January 4, 2017 by gattaca

[maniac]

1 minute ago, gattaca said:

Dhoni is no longer the captain. He can't select players or ask the selection committee. This will be the job of new ODI captain and selecting committee.

So you are saying Kohli will walk up to Dhoni and say...hey listen "let this guy keep" and if he doesn't it is Kohli's fault.

 

Dhoni can keep a poker face on and not care when a young keeper-bat plays alongside and not suggest he keep or even suggest that as a plan to the captain and management and it won't be his fault.

 

Great

[Cricketics]

It is now upto Kumble/Kohli if they want to make Dhoni play as a pure batsman or . Wk/bat. Dhoni is not going to decide that. It is not on him now. And knowing him, I am sure he won't worry about it much either.

We anyway shouldn't have to worry about transition.

The whole transition thing is overated for wicket keepers. If they aren't good enough to keep in domestics, then they aren't good enough to keep for India.  

 

Gilchrist retired too just like that and so did Boucher.

 

Yes, we should have some keepers ready before he retires but it is not necessary for them to be always playing for India. We can try Pant and co, but if Dhoni is the best keeper among them, then I will keep Dhoni as the keeper as I want to win games "NOW". 

[maniac]

16 minutes ago, Cricketics said:

It is now upto Kumble/Kohli if they want to make Dhoni play as a pure batsman or . Wk/bat. Dhoni is not going to decide that. It is not on him now. And knowing him, I am sure he won't worry about it much either.

We anyway shouldn't have to worry about transition.

The whole transition thing is overated for wicket keepers. If they aren't good enough to keep in domestics, then they aren't good enough to keep for India.  

 

Gilchrist retired too just like that and so did Boucher.

 

Yes, we should have some keepers ready before he retires but it is not necessary for them to be always playing for India. We can try Pant and co, but if Dhoni is the best keeper among them, then I will keep Dhoni as the keeper as I want to win games "NOW". 

Boucher's case yes,but  it was an unfortunate accident....With Gilchrist,after him Haddin and Wade are not even half as good but Haddin was deemed to be ready by teh time Gilchrist was done.

 

Gilchrist himself played along Healy in a lot of games before he became the permanent WK-Bat

[Cricketics]

1 minute ago, Viper said:

Yes its his fault from now on everytime we lose a match.. so you are telling me he doesn't have balls to go up someone and tell him this is what i want ? What kind of captain in that who lacks guts

 

Maybe he shouldn't be if that's the case and hand it over to someone else

That is true. Captain sbould have guts to drop or make harsh decisions. At the same time, I will keep Dhoni as keeper as he is the best keeper we have. Unless Dhoni does not want to keep, it is another thing. 

 

[sandeep]

23 minutes ago, maniac said:

Will they be allowed to play in the same team as him,for starters?

 

The only time he took out gloves was to bowl that infamous over in the Lord's test otherwise held tightly to it.....Dhoni can play as a batsman and let a young keeper keep for a change.....that would be a start

What a moroniac post.  If anything, it would be much better for the next WK to first debut and play a few games as a batsman, without the added pressure and scrutiny and physical work of wicket-keeping for an innings.   A young Kishan or Panth could build up some credibility and confidence with some good batting, and then build off of that and take 'keeping duties also once Dhoni's not in the mix.   

 

But no, create an artificial illogical requirement that Dhoni is unlikely to fulfill, and then beat your chest like a greenBro over it.  With fans and supporters like this, its no surprise that India players have hostility to the media.  Dhoni, when he was first made captain, was transparent and spoke his mind to a fault.  Go check his interviews and post-match statements circa 2007-08.  Over time, he learned that even honest words can be manipulated into nonsense and promptly clammed up and mastered the art of saying a bunch of words "process blah blah" while not saying much.  

[maniac]

Just now, Cricketics said:

That is true. Captain sbould have guts to drop or make harsh decisions. At the same time, I will keep Dhoni as keeper as he is the best keeper we have. Unless Dhoni does not want to keep, it is another thing. 

 

Get Pant in as a batsman and have Dhoni mentor him...how complex is that concept? basic mentorship 101

 

 

[sandeep]

Gilly played as a batsman alongside Healy - and not only because it wasn't even close which one of them was a better 'keeper.  

[Cricketics]

1 minute ago, maniac said:

Boucher's case yes,but  it was an unfortunate accident....With Gilchrist,after him Haddin and Wade are not even half as good but Haddin was deemed to be ready by teh time Gilchrist was done.

 

Gilchrist himself played along Healy in a lot of games before he became the permanent WK-Bat

Played along but Healy was the main keeper most of the times till he retired. That is the point. Unless Pant or someone show that they are special wicket keepers, Dhoni should be the keeper. If he does not want to keep, then we have no choice but to try new keeper. Dhoni still plays as pure bat at no.4

[maniac]

Just now, sandeep said:

What a moroniac post.  If anything, it would be much better for the next WK to first debut and play a few games as a batsman, without the added pressure and scrutiny and physical work of wicket-keeping for an innings.   A young Kishan or Panth could build up some credibility and confidence with some good batting, and then build off of that and take 'keeping duties also once Dhoni's not in the mix.   

 

But no, create an artificial illogical requirement that Dhoni is unlikely to fulfill, and then beat your chest like a greenBro over it.  With fans and supporters like this, its no surprise that India players have hostility to the media.  Dhoni, when he was first made captain, was transparent and spoke his mind to a fault.  Go check his interviews and post-match statements circa 2007-08.  Over time, he learned that even honest words can be manipulated into nonsense and promptly clammed up and mastered the art of saying a bunch of words "process blah blah" while not saying much.  

Yeah like he loves flying fighter jets etc. I have not heard 1 analytical thing related to cricket from Dhoni throughout his career. It was cool at first but then when he became captain and gave incoherent justifications to his moves,it sucked.

 

If Dhoni retires today,he will still be a great player,I said that in my OP.....I just said hope he mentors the new player....but of course you only pick and choose what suits you.

[Cricketics]

2 minutes ago, maniac said:

Get Pant in as a batsman and have Dhoni mentor him...how complex is that concept? basic mentorship 101

What mentorship you keep talking about? Of course Dhoni will do that. I am sure Dravid would have done it too when Pant was part of Delhi IPL team and also so would have De Kock who was the keeper for DD. 

 

 

 

It is common thing. Dinesh Karthik would have learned from Dhoni too when he was part of our team. 

 

These things go without saying. Every player helps each other. Now Dhoni can not spoon feed to Pant. Pant has to first score runs to cement his place and then worry about wicket keeping. 

[sandeep]

1 minute ago, maniac said:

Yeah like he loves flying fighter jets etc. I have not heard 1 analytical thing related to cricket from Dhoni throughout his career. It was cool at first but then when he became captain and gave incoherent justifications to his moves,it sucked.

 

If Dhoni retires today,he will still be a great player,I said that in my OP.....I just said hope he mentors the new player....but of course you only pick and choose what suits you.

O Great Sheikh Chilly, I quoted your moroniac post where you claimed if Dhoni didn't pass on the gloves to a rookie and play as a batsman, that would be selfish on his part.  When in fact, it would be the exact opposite.   Have the balls for once, to own up the nonsense you spout.  

[maniac]

3 minutes ago, Cricketics said:

Played along but Healy was the main keeper most of the times till he retired. That is the point. Unless Pant or someone show that they are special wicket keepers, Dhoni should be the keeper. If he does not want to keep, then we have no choice but to try new keeper. Dhoni still plays as pure bat at no.4

Ok Ok.....What I am saying is not that complex.....Pant can come in as a batsman and Dhoni can keep....just like there were matches where Bhajji played before Kumble....didn'nt make Kumble a much less mentor.....If Pant kicks on and takes over from Dhoni atleast he should say that yes Mahi Bhai made me the keeper-bat I am today or he mentored me or things like that.

 

Simple

[maniac]

1 minute ago, Cricketics said:

What mentorship you keep talking about? Of course Dhoni will do that. I am sure Dravid would have done it too when Pant was part of Delhi IPL team and also so would have De Kock who was the keeper for DD. 

 

 

 

It is common thing. Dinesh Karthik would have learned from Dhoni too when he was part of our team. 

 

These things go without saying. Every player helps each other. Now Dhoni can not spoon feed to Pant. Pant has to first score runs to cement his place and then worry about wicket keeping. 

How do you know Dhoni will do that for sure....Did Kapil Dev do that? Did Gavaskar do that? not that they are any lesser players

 

Firstly Dinesh Karthik was Dhoni's senior.

 

2 Fails so keep going....not fail posts but fail on understanding what exactly I am trying to say.

[sandeep]

38 minutes ago, maniac said:

Will they be allowed to play in the same team as him,for starters?

 

The only time he took out gloves was to bowl that infamous over in the Lord's test otherwise held tightly to it.....Dhoni can play as a batsman and let a young keeper keep for a change.....that would be a start

Quote

Pant can come in as a batsman and Dhoni can keep...

So, in less than half an hour you go from - Dhoni should not "hold gloves tightly" to "he should keep and next 'keeper should bat", while claiming you were saying the same thing all along.  Banjo Fata hua Double dholki.

[Cricketics]

1 minute ago, maniac said:

How do you know Dhoni will do that for sure....Did Kapil Dev do that? Did Gavaskar do that? not that they are any lesser players

 

Firstly Dinesh Karthik was Dhoni's senior.

 

2 Fails so keep going....not fail posts but fail on understanding what exactly I am trying to say.

Karthik would have been Dhoni's senior but the fact is that Dhoni was the captain and the first choice wicket keeper of India when he was first picked as captain.

 

Remember the world t20 2007. Remember Karthik taking the catch at slip and Dhoni the keeper?

[maniac]

6 minutes ago, sandeep said:

So, in less than half an hour you go from - Dhoni should not "hold gloves tightly" to "he should keep and next 'keeper should bat", while claiming you were saying the same thing all along.  Banjo Fata hua Double dholki.

Sure either ways would work.....you missed the source point....would larger Fonts help "Mentorship"

Will make it more elementary for you.

 

Pant/Samson/Kishan= Keeper-bat

Dhoni=Keeper-bat

 

Playing either one of Pant/Samson/Kishan with Dhoni=2 Keeper-bats

 

Fun Fact=In cricket there can't be 2 keepers keeping at the same time

 

So if one of them is keeping and other is playing as a batsman,sure no problem...but the senior player has to take the junior under his wings as someone who is going to replace him.

 

SImple.

 

I speak 3.5 other languages Hindi,Telugu and Telangana Telugu which apparently has it's own script and language according to @gattaca

and a little broken Tamil too

 

 

Edited January 4, 2017 by maniac