Final Test of Dhoni's character if he is someone who cares for Indian cricket

[maniac]

7 minutes ago, sandeep said:

By that token, VK should have rested in the NZ ODI series and let the young batsmen have a go in a home series.  Did he do that? No.  He told Ashwin, I want to score a couple of hundreds.  Is VK selfish to do that?  

I am sorry...does VK have any intentions of quitting ODI cricket? If Dhoni had this planned all along then yes he should have let a younger keeper play pointless games...if he had an epiphany all of a sudden to make this decision that that should be rightfully scrutinized.

 

Anyway this thread is about what Dhoni should do going forward...how hard it is to get through people's head....I mean not the physical head structure but the matter inside it.

[maniac]

6 minutes ago, BeautifulGame said:

Also we should have rested Ashwin for the final test against New Zealand and tried new spinners .

Maybe Ashwin is selfish as well

Read Post above...replace vk with Ashwin

[sandeep]

3 minutes ago, maniac said:

I am sorry...does VK have any intentions of quitting ODI cricket? If Dhoni had this planned all along then yes he should have let a younger keeper play pointless games...if he had an epiphany all of a sudden to make this decision that that should be rightfully scrutinized.

 

Anyway this thread is about what Dhoni should do going forward...how hard it is to get through people's head....I mean not the physical head structure but the matter inside it.

So you are claiming Dhoni should have been thinking of quitting ODI cricket 2 years ago?  You should be sorry for the spineless shifting of goalposts that you indulge in.  

[Laaloo]

15 minutes ago, sandeep said:

By that token, VK should have rested in the NZ ODI series and let the young batsmen have a go in a home series.  Did he do that? No.  He told Ashwin, I want to score a couple of hundreds.  Is VK selfish to do that?  

I wanted Kohli to rest as well but that didn't happen . The point is Dhoni's place wasn't in question. Even if his replacement for that game had scored a hundred, dhoni wasnt going to be removed. There was no harm in letting someone else keep. Kohli doesnt have anything else to establish either but kohli is at a different point in his career than dhoni was when he chose not to play a reserve keeper in dead rubber.

[maniac]

Just now, sandeep said:

So you are claiming Dhoni should have been thinking of quitting ODI cricket 2 years ago?  You should be sorry for the spineless shifting of goalposts that you indulge in.  

Likes of Rohit Sharma,VK,Rahane,Vijay,Dhawan etc etc were given chances even when we had a star studded batting-line up as there was a transition and back up plan....to the most part it was successful even though batting replacements has never been the problem.

 

I always said and still maintain Dhoni is India's 2nd biggest MVP since Kapil.....he should have known the void his exit will leave...Not just him but also the selectors should have had the vision....there you go not entirely Dhoni's fault.

[maniac]

6 minutes ago, BeautifulGame said:

So we don't need player options if Ashwin get injured ?

We have Mishra,Axar and Jadeja...3 bowlers with enough experience to kind of make up for it.....what about keeping?

[BeautifulGame]

We have Mishra,Axar and Jadeja...3 bowlers with enough experience to kind of make up for it.....what about keeping?

How would Axar who has never played a test match has enough experience lol

[sandeep]

10 minutes ago, laaloo said:

I wanted Kohli to rest as well but that didn't happen . The point is Dhoni's place wasn't in question. Even if his replacement for that game had scored a hundred, dhoni wasnt going to be removed. There was no harm in letting someone else keep. Kohli doesnt have anything else to establish either but kohli is at a different point in his career than dhoni was when he chose not to play a reserve keeper in dead rubber.

I don't disagree with you on the rest aspect.  But to use that as a point of criticism for Dhoni is flawed logic.  Look, criticize Dhoni for his test captaincy, for his fading hitting abilities, and his struggles with the bat lately - all fact based and fine.  But when you start hurling baseless speculations on a guy who has a track record of laying it down for the team, that just ain't right.  

[Ankit_sharma03]

On 1/5/2017 at 3:11 AM, maniac said:

Harbhajan till date worships Anil Kumble as his guru who put ego and insecurity aside and mentored him.

 

Virat,Rohit,Rahane,Dhawan or any young Indian batsman still act like fanboys when they gush about Sachin,Dravid,Laxman etc because despite being superstars they always mentored these guys.

 

First let me set some things straight-I don't hate Dhoni. I think he is a gun player.He is the 2nd best WK-Bat of all time behind Gilchrist and India's 2nd big MVP after Kapil Dev.

 

Now you might say Dhoni backed likes of Rohit,Ishant,Jadeja etc all who went on to have decent to great careers for India and won many matches under his leadership similar to Zak,Bhajji,Yuvraj,Nehra backed by Ganguly.

 

Now the problem is there is never a debate about Dhoni's on-field commitment be it with the bat or as a keeper. He always gave in a 100% on a personal front. Did he inspire,motivate others to do the same,well that can be a different debate.

 

Now backing players people may or may not agree with as long as he believes they will win him games as a captain is fair enough. I don't think Dhoni was a visionary who saw the future either but that too like my previous point can be a different debate

 

Let us take the example of Kapil- As a cricketer there is no doubt in anyone's mind that he was the top 3 ever produced by India,Some might even make a fair case for him being No.1 but when it comes to the legacy of what he did for the benefit for the future of Indian cricket,people kind of look down on him and he drops a notch below the likes of Sachin,Saurav,Laxman,Dravid,Kumble. the reason being once Kapil retired,as good as Srinath was by the time he finished-he was nowhere near ready when Kapil was done.He was still a raw material. Kapil leaving is such a huge gap that we haven't been able to fill it to this day.

 

With Dhoni there is a shot at that legacy here. Dhoni has decided to hang around as a player,while the negatives can be argued,let us look at the bright side of how much good this can do if he does the right things. Right now Indian cricket has at least 3 young keeper-bats knocking on the door of the international side to be the future Dhoni.

 

Will Dhoni keep playing as a keeper-bat to suddenly leave a huge void when he retires or will he take a young keeper-bat like Pant,Samson or Kishan under his wings and make the transition as smooth as possible?

 

This right there will cement Dhoni's legacy. I personally thought Dhoni was a committed individual but is he going to go far and beyond to groom a heir. This will be the final test of Dhoni's character to be a once great player or India's greatest. 

 

 

Virat, Ashwin were two other who started under dhoni n was immensely backed

 

Harabhajan example, i dnt how apt that is as he himself couldn't be mentor when needed and wasn't even a good sportsman to be honest. I really dont know what he learned from kumble. 

 

Dhoni about grooming keeper, well nobody did groom dhoni or many other cricketers. All 3 of them have to make their own way. No matter how much u teach someone ultimately it all comes to an individual. Kohli n Pandey had same dressing room filled with legends in RCB and we all know how their paths went. 

 

Grooming his heir in cricket is an overrated thing to say, sachin didnt groom kohli but kohli himself took up the mantle and learned whatever he could from everyone.

 

IF those keepers are not ready by the end of dhoni's career they ll have themselves to blame. The one who wants to make a way will make his way. 

 

Here is something i read

 

Wicketkeeping tips were given to Ishan Kishan. Considerable time was spent in demonstrating, or so it seemed, the importance of having soft hands. Batting tips were offered to men who were to follow in the batting order. Catching practice and light throwdowns before play were also part of the routine. He looked every inch a man who didn't bear the weight of expectation.

 

http://www.espncricinfo.com/india/content/story/1075602.html

 

 

M sure when he gets to spend time with Samson or Pant he ll pass on his exp to them to but ultimately its upto them. 

Edited January 5, 2017 by Ankit_sharma03

[kruiser]

who groomed you maniac to write such posts? Nice clickbait though! 

[veer]

hahah.. kya kuch bhi OP... ever so demanding fan!...

Hum kuch nai karege lekin aap se hume  duniya bhar ki umeed he .. nahi to label de dege 'selfish cricketer' ka. 

[maniac]

Ok Great opportunity here.....As I said can't blame or shift the entire responsibility on Dhoni

 

But selectors picked Pant-Check

 

Next step will Kohli and Kumble play him in the team because obviously since Dhoni has stepped down he will not want anythign to do with team selections.

 

But if Kohli and Kumble play Pant-Then will be interesting to see how fast Pant will evolve as a cricketer playing in the same team as India's greatest WK-Bat....The ball is almost in Dhoni's court

 

[sandeep]

2 hours ago, maniac said:

 

But if Kohli and Kumble play Pant-Then will be interesting to see how fast Pant will evolve as a cricketer playing in the same team as India's greatest WK-Bat....The ball is almost in Dhoni's court

 

So if Rishabh turns out to be substandard with the gloves, or an overrated slogger younger Sharjeel Khan somehow - not saying he is, but if he does, somehow that's on Dhoni?  

 

Back to your usual nonsense again.  You are giving south Indians a bad name with the kachra  you spout.

[maniac]

8 minutes ago, sandeep said:

So if Rishabh turns out to be substandard with the gloves, or an overrated slogger younger Sharjeel Khan somehow - not saying he is, but if he does, somehow that's on Dhoni?  

 

Back to your usual nonsense again.  You are giving south Indians a bad name with the kachra  you spout.

Lol Wut-you should have started with  that...that was a good ice breaker...now moving on to a more serious subject.

 

Do you want Rishabh to be substandard with the gloves, or an overrated slogger younger Sharjeel Khan ?

 

If Yes-Don't bother responding...If No then let us move further.

 

Can me or anyone who have high hopes on Pant absolutely be sure he will have a decent career leave alone overtake Gilchrist and Dhoni?

 

No because we don't know the future....big talents have gone bust and surprising selections who looked very ordinary at first ended up making  big names for themselves.

 

If we don't know the future then why is everyone so amped up on Pant?

 

Because based on what we have seen,it is obvious the kid has enormous talent. He also has unbelievable numbers to back his case.

 

Where Does Dhoni come in

 

Now if Rishabh turns out to be the 2nd coming of Kamran Akmal with the gloves and as bad as Chris Martin with the bat then sure he has blown his chances. but going back to point2 where everyone has seen sparks of brilliance in him,at least we will try and salvage it for a while hoping that he lives up to the expectations....will that be wrong?

 

Now...Rishabh is expected to replace Dhoni...this is a guy who has seen everything given his vast experience-The good days,the bad,stressful days,the competition...have you heard a little term called "mentorship" or even a abbreviated termterm called "KT" which translates to knowledge transfer from the outgoing expert to the newbie?

 

No one is expecting Dhoni,Kumble or Kohli to start teaching Pant how to keep and bat.....Just like I have said Pant has loads of talent but no one debuting at the age 19 is a finished product...they need fine tuning and who better to do than Dhoni himself whom he might end up replacing if things go well.

 

As you said and hope this is not something you wish for...If Pant is atrocious then no one is going to blame Dhoni for that.

 

You seem to lose all sense of logic and cricketing sense when Dhoni is brought in to the argument