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Dhoni at no. 4 complicating things..


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Posted
2 hours ago, rkt.india said:

How Indian batting has struggled? Kohli, Rohit both averaging 50+, dhawan his usual 40+. Rahane is unfit for ODIs and Raina has past it. We need to at least look beyond Rahane and Raina for ODIs. 

Two of the players are openers there - Dhwan and Kohli. Where is the support in middle order when Kohli gets out?  Raina, Dhawan, Pandey, Pandya, Jadhav etc have been part of our batting order who have been either inconsistent or were very new members of the team who were basically without muh experience and all of whom Dhoni could not rely on much and hence he had to make sure he keep his wicket and bat conservatively to ensure he is there till the end. 

Posted
5 hours ago, rkt.india said:

I don't understand how he will do well just because he would bat in top order! He is not going to get that consistent performance back irrespective of his batting position. The reason of decline is not his batting number but losing reflexes and the change of his game.

Reflexes are still there. It is more a term for fielding than batting. With age, he probably does not have the same hand and eye coordination but even that part isn't fully correct for him as he is still able to bat through for long time but just not scoring at high rate.

 

With age he has dropped down in average as do most players and similarly Dhoni has dropped too, but this is more because we have not had much experienced players in our middle or lower order who could be trusted much and hence Dhoni has had to change his game, which very well is the reason why he has also lost his touch now to hit and strike the ball big at will, something he can still do sometimes but not everytime like he could do before with ease. 

5 hours ago, BeautifulGame said:

Because the assumption/expectation is that with time to spend in the middle ,he can settle in without score board pressure score big and go for big hits in latter innings.Batting position becomes a major issue when he need to score quickly from the get go because of score board pressure. When constructing an innings in the top order he doesnt need to go for big every other over which is a massive difference.

 

Even with his slowed down reflexes he has been excellent in T20s in recent times .Having said all this he obviously need to retire/dropped if he struggles at no.4 as well.

 

Posted (edited)
17 hours ago, PSB_Zone said:

Ask urself without being emotional..
Can dhoni bat ahead of rahul?
Why not no. 5 for Rahul. He is great talent .At 6 will be a waste.
 

No emotions whatsoever.. Dhoni plays at 5 for now; he either performs or perishes. 

The issue now is we don't have a potent No. 6. 

Of all options we have, I still think Rahul fits the role well.. I don't care whether he is a Test opener or not.. He has the potential to play aggressively, yet not slog every ball. I'd have this as the immediate solution until we can groom somebody for No. 6..

 

With time, groom Pant to be a No.6, and move Rahul up the order as he matures as an ODI player.

 

Edited by bowl_out
Posted
No emotions whatsoever.. Dhoni plays at 5 for now; he either performs or perishes. 

The issue now is we don't have a potent No. 6. 

Of all options we have, I still think Rahul fits the role well.. I don't care whether he is a Test opener or not.. He has the potential to play aggressively, yet not slog every ball. I'd have this as the immediate solution until we can groom somebody for No. 6..

 

With time, groom Pant to be a No.6, and move Rahul up the order as he matures as an ODI player.

 

Dhoni has already started batting at no.4

So not sure how he plays at 5 or perishes

Posted (edited)
16 hours ago, Cricketics said:

Two of the players are openers there - Dhwan and Kohli. Where is the support in middle order when Kohli gets out?  Raina, Dhawan, Pandey, Pandya, Jadhav etc have been part of our batting order who have been either inconsistent or were very new members of the team who were basically without muh experience and all of whom Dhoni could not rely on much and hence he had to make sure he keep his wicket and bat conservatively to ensure he is there till the end. 

It doesn't matter whether other batsmen in middle order performed well or not because he was also a part of that middle order. He failed too very much like Rahane and Raina and both should not be a part of our ODI side. Raina is already out and if Rohit was fit, even Rahane would not have been picked, but Dhoni will not be dropped that easily. I doubt there is only way he wont be picked regardless of how bad he performs and that is by retiring. After SRT, Dhoni is the only player who no one will have guts to drop.

Edited by rkt.india
Posted (edited)

Well after going all the posts , here is my conclusion of the thread..

Since, Dhoni only wants to bat at 4
Uv is way past his best
Raina should not be selected ever according to ICF
Manish can bat only in top 4 & everyone wants him in the team
Rahane is not fit for ODIs
Kedar does not give the sense of stability in Middle order

We now will need a dasher at no. 6 and a 360 degree complete player
at NO. 5. I cant see anyone but Rahul there (though I think he should bat at 4)
And at 6 Somebody like Pant should be given opportunity , bonus is
he is a left hander and a wicket keeper too..

But sadly then there is no place for MSD.
As i don't find him better then Manish.

I dont think the team below can be argued

Rohit
Dhawan
Kohli
Pandey
Rahul
Pant
Pandya
Ashwin

BHUVI

SHAMI
Bumrah

Jadega or Mishra Replacing Either Pandya or Bhuvi
depending on conditions and combination

 

Edited by PSB_Zone
Posted
Well after going all the posts , here is my conclusion of the thread..

Since, Dhoni only wants to bat at 4

Uv is way past his best

Raina should not be selected ever according to ICF

Manish can bat only in top 4 & everyone wants him in the team

Rahane is not fit for ODIs

Kedar does not give the sense of stability in Middle order

We now will need a dasher at no. 6 and a 360 degree complete player

at NO. 5. I cant see anyone but Rahul there (though I think he should bat at 4)

And at 6 Somebody like Pant should be given opportunity , bonus is

he is a left hander and a wicket keeper too..

But sadly then there is no place for MSD.

As i don't find him better then Manish.

I dont think the team below can be argued

Rohit

Dhawan

Kohli

Pandey

Rahul

Pant

Pandya

Ashwin

BHUVI

SHAMI

Bumrah

Jadega or Mishra Replacing Either Pandya or Bhuvi

depending on conditions and combination

 

Manish Pandey basically a single a decent score out of Zimbabwe , 1 knock above 30 in 8 and in the last series against New Zealand ,Dhoni averaged 38 and Pandey 18 (despite a not out ).

But Dhoni isn't better than Manish Pandey . Thats genuinely amusing lol

Posted
1 hour ago, BeautifulGame said:

Manish Pandey basically a single a decent score out of Zimbabwe , 1 knock above 30 in 8 and in the last series against New Zealand ,Dhoni averaged 38 and Pandey 18 (despite a not out ).

But Dhoni isn't better than Manish Pandey . Thats genuinely amusing lol

Actually Manish Pandey had a match winning hundred in Australia in the 5th ODI, but regardless of that he is still no where close to Dhoni.

 

Posted
Actually Manish Pandey had a match winning hundred in Australia in the 5th ODI, but regardless of that he is still no where close to Dhoni.

 

Yeah that's the decent score I mentioned .Apart from that knock he hasn't scored a single score of 30+ (excluding Zimbabwe)

Posted
2 hours ago, PSB_Zone said:



Rohit
Dhawan
Kohli
Pandey
Rahul
Pant
Pandya
Ashwin

BHUVI

SHAMI
Bumrah


 

If we have a poor opening stand, and Kohli fails, we will have to deal with inexperience of Pandey-Rahul and Pant, all of whom have hardly played 50 overs cricket or not at all. Basically since Pant is not in the India-Eng odi series, you want him to debut in the champions trophy on the basis of 2020 series coming up. That is not totally absurd but would look silly if he has a poor run in 2020. Regardless, him and Pandey who is yet to show consistency and Rahul, who I trust can be a long term option but isn't the right person to rely on yet, these all players can't play on the same time at this time. We have to have Dhoni in the middle with these guys to carry them along and the ensure we do not get bowled out for 160ish score. That line up is very capable of getting bowled under 160 if Kohli fails and we have a poor opening stand because as it lacks the experience right now. Dhoni is a must for this line up at 4. 

Posted

Still best keeepr batsman in odi format .

 

but will he be time World Cup comes around ? 

 

Would he be if a pant or kidhan was given full run in team till next World Cup?

 

can selectors show some vision ? Doubt it 

 

can kohli drop him to groom a guy for World Cup ? Doubt that as well , even kohli does not have that much guts 

Posted

Or they could have played t20 to show us the talent 

 

of course they will be raw . Point is get them in and give them time to learn and develop and we could have our de kock ready for World Cup 

 

one thing is is for sure as every month passes . Dhoni will get worse and these guys better . 

 

Some vision would be nice 

Posted
10 minutes ago, King Tendulkar said:

 

of course they will be raw . Point is get them in and give them time to learn and develop and we could have our de kock ready for World Cup 

Some vision would be nice 

This is a key issue. New guys take time to develop after being introduced to international cricket.

 

Our selectors should have a clear vision regarding the  team they want for WC 19.

 

Yuvraj and Dhoni have little chance of  surviving till WC 19 30 months later.

 

We should get in the players that are likely to play for us in WC 19 and give them sufficient time to prepare. Not everyone we try will come good, which is why it is even more important to start the process early.

Posted (edited)
8 minutes ago, BeautifulGame said:

Ranji trophy isn't different for shorter formats .

 


That's why we have IPL

 

Just like Ranji is FC ,  IPL is T20 and does not give an exact idea regarding ODI eligibility.  We have seen many player who are great in ODIs and bad in T20s and vice versa.

Edited by express bowling
Posted
Just like Ranji is FC ,  IPL is T20 and does not give a clear idea regarding ODI eligibility.  We have seen many player who are great in ODIs and bad in T20s and vice versa.

Very few players are good in T20 and bad in Odis .Infact the only one I can think of is Pollard.

The proportion with test cricket is far bigger .

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