What would be your Indian test squad to face Australia?

[Cricketics]

17 minutes ago, Muloghonto said:

Sorry i meant debut series.

 

Meh, Bangladesh is not a good indicator either way. IMO, Karun should be given another 2-3 tests. India typically announces squads for first two test, then the last few tests. In the first two vs AUS, it should be Nair. That is 2-4 chances against a quality attack. If he gets exposed,fine back to Rahane it is. But you can't just drop a triple centurion on his debut series after 1 mess-up.

 

Yes, at the same time we need to remember it was just few innings before that Rahane was rated as the best Indian test player. Yes better than kohli and pujara. He had superb 12 months.  So just few bad games and we shouldn't show him the door or make him sit. Rahane has to play in the Indian team. We can not drop him. Nair can be tried too but then we will have to look to drop probably Vijay which is spoiling the opening combo and then adjusting a middle order batsman to open with Rahul.

 

Rahul himself has been inconsistent and been injured and only scored recently in that test where Karun hit 300. 

 

Tough one for Kohli this. 

[express bowling]

18 minutes ago, Trichromatic said:

Say Nair doesn't mess up, and remain a consistent 42-45 averaging batsman. In that case will Rahane be gone for good, even though he is only batsman who averages 50 away from home?

 

At point will Rahane be able to get back into the team without Nair's failure?

Rahane will be among the first 2 batsmen chosen when we play tests outside Asia.

 

In India, Nair should get 2 tests....after that a decision can be made based on what happens.  He may continue to perform but Vijay might not as he has been inconsistent off late.....we can take it from there.

[sandeep]

5 hours ago, Muloghonto said:

It doesn't matter if you are captain or vice captain, you CANNOT leave out a guy who scored a triple century on debut, against a team that is a top-4 team, with 2 bowlers in top 10 rankings and another 2 in top 25.

That is pretty much sending the worst possible message ever to up and comers : that we will not reward performance, even of the highest level possible. 

 

Rahane should sit. 

That's broken logic.  Why is scoring 300 on a road against a tired team that had already given up the series, bestow some kind of divine shield on Nair, while Rahane's proven track record against quality bowlers, in unfavorable conditions, doesn't count?  

 

VK had said publicly that in Nair's case - he's the next man in - and that's how it stays.  The only person really impacted by Nair's 300 is ....

 

The man who can change a test match in a session - at least on paper anyway.  

[kruiser]

Let Chepu Sit.. or why not have the King take a break :)

[Vilander]

Rahane is suspect against spin, if he plays SL/BD he will get exposed. He is good outside India, Karun should be tried now as he has made a legit claim with his 300. Problem of plenty, pitch conditions and opponent team composition will dictate Rahane vs Karun. 

[Muloghonto]

On 1/18/2017 at 0:25 AM, express bowling said:

Rahane will be among the first 2 batsmen chosen when we play tests outside Asia.

 

In India, Nair should get 2 tests....after that a decision can be made based on what happens.  He may continue to perform but Vijay might not as he has been inconsistent off late.....we can take it from there.

Indeed. There is a case for dropping Pujara overseas, bumping Rahane to #3 and giving Nair/another hotshot a shot at #6. But the thing is, we can't start doing it overseas, we have to try it at home first. And Rahane hasn't played a FC game since his injury. Let him sit the next test. Give Nair a chance for the next 2-3 tests. A triple centurion in his debut series, deserves that at the very minimum, in terms of sticking to the basic principle of rewarding success in a sports team.

 

[Muloghonto]

20 hours ago, sandeep said:

That's broken logic.  Why is scoring 300 on a road against a tired team that had already given up the series, bestow some kind of divine shield on Nair, while Rahane's proven track record against quality bowlers, in unfavorable conditions, doesn't count?  

 

VK had said publicly that in Nair's case - he's the next man in - and that's how it stays.  The only person really impacted by Nair's 300 is ....

 

The man who can change a test match in a session - at least on paper anyway.  

I disagree.

See, the basic funda to a sports team, is to win. To that end, most successful teams across most team sports have a strong foundation of rewarding success. Take north american league hockey - teams have straight up, demoted their 'proven 8 year vet who is having a bad year' to stick to a guy who is working and putting up numbers. Now, cricket isn't as extreme as these North American franchises, but even in cricket, the same principle applies & most solid management teams have followed this. I can't think of many '5 wicket on debut/triple centurion in debut series/10-fer in debut series' guy being left out for the next match after his 10fer/5-fer/triple ton. 

 

The basic motto of the team should be : no-matter who you are, if your performance is extraordinary, you will play the next few games after said extraordinary. To not do so, would be basically telling rest of the cricketers in India to 'give up trying to make international career, stick to IPL/wait till one of our 4 middle order bats get old/loses form and get a match or two here or there, in the strongest possible terms.

Because then, any batsman would have a legitimate question of 'if i can't make it to the team after scoring a triple ton in test cricket, against England- a solid side, then why should i bother with test cricket ?' 

There is no better incentive than rewarding success with more opportunity to have success. Ie, play-time. One can harp on 'its duty/honor/national pride' yadda yadda but simple fact of the matter is, we will always find more players willing to play test cricket, if we let them in the team based on performance, than just for pride & honour & duty. 

 

On to Rahane : dropping Rahane is not 'good-bye, see you later Rahane'. As noted by a fellow ICF-er, Rahane is easily our 2nd best middle order bat overseas. Way ahead of Chepu. So realistically, Rahane should not sit between 2-3 tests and if everyone performs well, there is no harm in rotating Rahane-Pujara-Nair.

 

For eg, in RSA next year or even against Bangladesh, I'd like to see a lineup of Vijay -Rahul-Rahane-Kohli-Nair-Ashwin-Saha-Jadeja/Jayant as our top 8, with 3 pacers thrown in. 

[sandeep]

@Muloghonto

Damn that's quite a verbose display of ponga-punditry.  After all, see, who knew that the basic funda of a sports team is to "win".  I thought they were just doing calisthenics out there and modeling beard-barbers.  

 

Karun Nair's role in the team is of spare middle order batsman - he got multiple opportunities in the England series because the openers were hurt and Party Patel opened the batting.  Lot of folks who are clamoring for him to play in Rahane's place, would have been all for chucking him out of the squad if he hadn't played at Chepauk, since he had a couple of failures ahead of that.  Doing that would have a rash wrong move.  Irresponsible over-reaction that hurts the team's investment in that player's long-term success - and by extenstion the team's long-term success.  Which by the way, is defined by "performance" and "winning" - since its such a basic funda.  

 

Similarly - one good innings - and it was a very good one - no taking credit away from him - shouldn't over-ride the common sense that your top batsmen should not be made to feel vulnerable for their places after a couple of bad innings - that's very damaging to batsmen's confidence - which is absolutely critical to their success - and the team's basic funda - ding! winning.    Now the equation would be totally different if Nair was competing with say, a Shikhar Dhawan in tests.  There, the incumbent's record and abilities are not strong enough to over-ride Karun's claim based on his one good innings.  But Rahane's a different matter.  

 

To sum it all up for you - in test cricket - Nobody puts Rahane in the corner - that too on the basis of one innings in a home flat track in a dead rubber.  No matter how many hundreds of words are pontificated in an inane display of sophistry.  

Edited January 19, 2017 by sandeep

[ShebbySB]

First XI:-

Rahul

Vijay

Pujara

Kohli(C)

Rahane

Parthiv(Wk)

Ashwin

Jadeja

Jayant

Umesh

Shami

Reserves:- Mukund,Nair,Kuldeep,Ishant.

No place for Hardik,Saha,Rohit,BK,Pandey.While Gambhir,Mishra,Dhawan permanently axed.

 

[Muloghonto]

9 hours ago, sandeep said:

@Muloghonto

Damn that's quite a verbose display of ponga-punditry.  After all, see, who knew that the basic funda of a sports team is to "win".  I thought they were just doing calisthenics out there and modeling beard-barbers.  

 

Karun Nair's role in the team is of spare middle order batsman - he got multiple opportunities in the England series because the openers were hurt and Party Patel opened the batting.  Lot of folks who are clamoring for him to play in Rahane's place, would have been all for chucking him out of the squad if he hadn't played at Chepauk, since he had a couple of failures ahead of that.  Doing that would have a rash wrong move.  Irresponsible over-reaction that hurts the team's investment in that player's long-term success - and by extenstion the team's long-term success.  Which by the way, is defined by "performance" and "winning" - since its such a basic funda.  

 

Similarly - one good innings - and it was a very good one - no taking credit away from him - shouldn't over-ride the common sense that your top batsmen should not be made to feel vulnerable for their places after a couple of bad innings - that's very damaging to batsmen's confidence - which is absolutely critical to their success - and the team's basic funda - ding! winning.    Now the equation would be totally different if Nair was competing with say, a Shikhar Dhawan in tests.  There, the incumbent's record and abilities are not strong enough to over-ride Karun's claim based on his one good innings.  But Rahane's a different matter.  

 

To sum it all up for you - in test cricket - Nobody puts Rahane in the corner - that too on the basis of one innings in a home flat track in a dead rubber.  No matter how many hundreds of words are pontificated in an inane display of sophistry.  

But thats the thing. The type of treatment you are meting out to Rahane, IMO is unwarranted.

'No-matter who does what, if you are fit, you pay' may apply to the likes of Sachin, Kohli, etc. without question and may even be legitimately extended to the likes of Laxman, Sehwag too. But Rahane is not that batsman.

Don't get me wrong. Rahane is very good. He should be part of the long term future of the team. But Rahane is not rock-solid against quality spin on spin friendly tracks. He should be made to question his place in the team on spinners, coz well he's not been too hot in India or in SL .

 

Chepu is also in the same boat, though his position is weaker than Rahane's because he shouldn't be a certainty to start overseas unless in a purple patch at home too. 

 

These players should be vulnerable to a 'once in a lifetime performance by a new guy'. There's a fine line between 'going with the same 11-13 players no matter what' and 'let the true greats & almost great vets get their protection.

Besides, Kumble, IIRC said he likes injured players to play a FC game or two before coming back to test. Rehane should atleast do that. 

 

[sandeep]

56 minutes ago, Muloghonto said:

But thats the thing. The type of treatment you are meting out to Rahane, IMO is unwarranted.

'No-matter who does what, if you are fit, you pay' may apply to the likes of Sachin, Kohli, etc. without question and may even be legitimately extended to the likes of Laxman, Sehwag too. But Rahane is not that batsman.
 

Chepu is also in the same boat, though his position is weaker than Rahane's because he shouldn't be a certainty to start overseas unless in a purple patch at home too. 

 

These players should be vulnerable to a 'once in a lifetime performance by a new guy'. There's a fine line between 'going with the same 11-13 players no matter what' and 'let the true greats & almost great vets get their protection.

 

So in your opinion - only "true greats" are allowed a bit of a long rope beyond a handful of innings, while the only "very good" should spend their careers at the cliff's edge - where they should always feel as if a black swan type of innings by a temporary replacement means they will ride the bench.  That's not how you get guys to play selflessly towards the team cause.  And that is not how you build a winning team or a team culture.  Competition is healthy, cut-throat fickle-minded use and drop policies are not.  

 

Anyway, we can agree to disagree.  I don't want to get sucked into another verbose exchange of ponga-punditry.  

 

[bowl_out]

On 1/19/2017 at 5:26 AM, ShebbySB said:

First XI:-

Rahul

Vijay

Pujara

Kohli(C)

Rahane

Parthiv(Wk)

Ashwin

Jadeja

Jayant

Umesh

Shami

Reserves:- Mukund,Nair,Kuldeep,Ishant.

No place for Hardik,Saha,Rohit,BK,Pandey.While Gambhir,Mishra,Dhawan permanently axed.

 

Perfect squad.. Exactly what I had in mind as well

[kira]

play the  spin quartet of jayant kuldeep jadeja and ashwin and absolutely massacre the aussies  all four can bat and they will bowl out the aussies in double digits in every match 

[kira]

parthiv ko select karne walon, janta maaf nahi karegi, kya soch kar parthiv ko choose kar rahe ho?

[ShebbySB]

19 minutes ago, kira said:

play the  spin quartet of jayant kuldeep jadeja and ashwin and absolutely massacre the aussies  all four can bat and they will bowl out the aussies in double digits in every match 

We need turners for that