Kohli vs Sachin . Can we stop this embarrassing comparison (POLL)

[Muloghonto]

10 minutes ago, express bowling said:

I rate will to win for team,  captaincy and team development very highly in a team sport.

I don't think 'will to win' can be quantified. Just because a person is silent, doesn't mean they don't have will to win. Otherwise, Curtly 'I talk to no man' Ambrose doesnt have will to win either...

A part time bowler who takes wickets and is a better batsman than just a pure batsman, is universally considered a better cricketer.

 

Edited March 31, 2017 by Muloghonto

[HippoSucks]

3 minutes ago, express bowling said:

I said T20s and not T20Is.    Sachin has played 78  IPL matches.

Sachin did well until 2012 which was at the end of his career. T20s have changed a lot too, so you can't compare Kohli's current performances with those 7 years back from someone at the end of a 24 year career.

[HippoSucks]

2 minutes ago, Muloghonto said:

Yes. since 2014. Thats not even a world cup cycle. Too early to say if he has found consistency or is just going trough a purple patch

Okay, but there is no way you can call it as being inconsistent. 

[express bowling]

1 minute ago, Muloghonto said:

I don't think 'will to win' can be quantified. Just because a person is silent, doesn't mean they don't have will to win. Otherwise, Curtly 'I talk to no man' Ambrose doesnt have will to win either...

 

I am not talking about verbals here but manner of captaincy, batting in clutch situations and team building and selection with a view to win matches.

[Pollack]

7 minutes ago, express bowling said:

I rate will to win for team,  captaincy and team development very highly in a team sport.

All of them pretty abstract factors to judge someone. Did Sachin not have will to win.Rating a player for captaincy has always been on the basis of perceptions(yet another abstract factor).You need to combine abstract as well as concrete details to rate someone thoroughly. Stats considered  alone are meaningless but so are aggression, will to win, talent, etc  considered alone.

 

N.B : Captaincy is a thoroughly abused and most misunderstood in Cricket. There are just too many random factors involved that you just cannot figure out the right way to rate it without making assumptions.

[Muloghonto]

Just now, express bowling said:

I am not talking about verbals here but manner of captaincy, batting in clutch situations and team building and selection with a view to win matches.

Batting in clutch situations ?

LOL. Thats about batting. And Tendulkar has been a lot more clutch than Kohli - that much i already showed.

Team building/team selection etc are all nebulous concepts that are more about what you prefer than actual quantifiable right/wrong. Its not like Tendulkar promoted nobodies to the team...infact he uncharacteristically spoke out against quota pick Nilesh Kulkarni for being a Mumbai quota pick.

Also, none of that has anything to do with 'will to win'. 

 

[maniac]

Just now, Muloghonto said:

Batting in clutch situations ?

LOL. Thats about batting. And Tendulkar has been a lot more clutch than Kohli - that much i already showed.

Team building/team selection etc are all nebulous concepts that are more about what you prefer than actual quantifiable right/wrong. Its not like Tendulkar promoted nobodies to the team...infact he uncharacteristically spoke out against quota pick Nilesh Kulkarni for being a Mumbai quota pick.

Also, none of that has anything to do with 'will to win'. 

 

I agree.....also David Jhonson,Dodda Ganesh,Paras Mhambrey,Abey Kuruvilla,Debashish Mohanty,Harvinder Singh-a lot of "fast bowlers" were tired under Sachin-Now it is another story they turned out to be duds and became running jokes in the history of Indian cricket at least most of them .

 

If we had ICF then I bet-there would be 10's of threads and 100's of posts for David Johnson and Dodda Ganesh who for some bizarre reason were considered express before they humiliated themselves.

 

Now if Srinath was injured and Prasad who was pretty good early in his career was over bowled it wasn't Sachin's fault.

[Sidhoni]

BTW guys, its 1st of April in India ;-)

 

 

[maniac]

^Also anyone remember the Noel David pick for an injured Srinath...Sachin's famous reaction to that can be summarized with this smiley

 

Edited March 31, 2017 by maniac

[maniac]

I personally think Sachin wasn't the worst captain he is made out to be....Indian cricket doesn't have the maturity it has today....We are truly lucky that we saw a generation of educated,passionate,patriotic and most importantly gentlemanly cricketers all at once in our generation.BCCI still has it's politics,greed and corruption but what  sets them apart is that they have given the cricketing decisions to these legends for the most part while they deal with finance and political issues.

 

Nothing wrong with it but Kohli is lucky to have some fantastic mentors around

 

In Sachin's time that wasn't the case,as by my above post he had to deal with a lot of crap like politics/fixing from Azhar,Kapil Dev's lack of enthusiasm as a coach,Ajit Wadekar one of the shadiest cricketers of all time etc.

 

That Noel David example above sums it up.

 

In fact I give Sachin the credit for not being power hungry and being secure enough in his ability to move on from captaincy and BCCI the vision to let someone else handle the crap while the golden goose continues doing what it does best.

 

Glad Sachin was kept away from all this crap

Edited March 31, 2017 by maniac

[maniac]

7 minutes ago, Sidhoni said:

BTW guys, its 1st of April in India ;-)

 

 

In the spirit of April 1st....Doni single handedly won us the 2011 WC

[express bowling]

11 minutes ago, Muloghonto said:

Batting in clutch situations ?

LOL. Thats about batting. And Tendulkar has been a lot more clutch than Kohli - that much i already showed.

Team building/team selection etc are all nebulous concepts that are more about what you prefer than actual quantifiable right/wrong. Its not like Tendulkar promoted nobodies to the team...infact he uncharacteristically spoke out against quota pick Nilesh Kulkarni for being a Mumbai quota pick.

Also, none of that has anything to do with 'will to win'. 

 

 

For people who think they are nebulous, let them stay nebulous.

 

People who are interested more about the team's performances  than about the performances of individual players will form a clearer idea on these issues.

[Muloghonto]

1 minute ago, express bowling said:

 

For people who think they are nebulous, let them stay nebulous.

 

People who are interested more about the team's performances  than about the performances of individual players will form a clearer idea on these issues.

There is no clear idea on this issue because there is no clear idea on evaluating captaincy or will to win. 
Someone who is quiet doesnt mean they have less will to win and someone who doesn't go mouthing off opponents with BC/MC every 2 words doesnt mean that they don't care about team performance.

 

You are simply passing off your perception as some sort of quantifiable truth. It isn't . 

 

Also as i said, if you concede Tendulkar is a better batsman, he is then automatically a better cricketer due to vastly superior bowling and catching skills than Virat- those are cricketing skills that makes a cricketer.

 

[maniac]

1 minute ago, express bowling said:

 

For people who think they are nebulous, let them stay nebulous.

 

People who are interested more about the team's performances  than about the performances of individual players will form a clearer idea on these issues.

I don't know which side you are on but this thread is comparing 2 individuals.

 

Not a ridiculous comparison because the biggest star of the previous generation vs the biggest star of the current generation.

 

So this thread is about individuals and hence the point raised about individuals.

 

You are a good poster and I am not saying this about you but I see a lot of posters pulling down another player to make their point that doesn't have to be the case...why can't we have a fun discussion with all scenarios added to see who is better? 

 

I say as of now Sachin is better and Kohli will easily surpass him in ODI's by the time he finishes but in tests he has some catching up to do.

[express bowling]

17 minutes ago, Pollack said:

N.B : Captaincy is a thoroughly abused and most misunderstood in Cricket. There are just too many random factors involved that you just cannot figure out the right way to rate it without making assumptions.

 

Maybe in close cases but not while comparing Kohli's and Tendulkar's  captaincy.

 

Although results produced by captaincy is not the sole factor but that becomes a big factor in the end.

[mishra]

 Sachin got out. India switched off tele. because 19 out of 20 times Rest of team will humiliate us. 

Kohli didnt play, we won even more convincingly against Aussies(offcourse not the same Aussies).

kohli still has competetion with ABDV, Smith,Root. Only player who ever came close to Sachin was Lara.

[Vilander]

Tests : pfft..please.

 

ODI : Sachin has been the highest scoring batsman in multiple word cups. Kohli ?

 

Comeon guys Kohli has some way to go still.

[Vilander]

although Kohli has big 100's that his ability and Chasing in ODI.

[express bowling]

1 minute ago, maniac said:

I don't know which side you are on but this thread is comparing 2 individuals.

 

Not a ridiculous comparison because the biggest star of the previous generation vs the biggest star of the current generation.

 

So this thread is about individuals and hence the point raised about individuals.

 

You are a good poster and I am not saying this about you but I see a lot of posters pulling down another player to make their point that doesn't have to be the case...why can't we have a fun discussion with all scenarios added to see who is better? 

 

I say as of now Sachin is better and Kohli will easily surpass him in ODI's by the time he finishes but in tests he has some catching up to do.

 

I am on no-one's side.... which is why I pointed out the areas in which I  think Tendulkar is better and Kohli is better.  ( just my opinion )

 

Although it is comparison of individuals..... in a team game, the effect of various traits, qualities and performances of the individuals on the performances of their teams have to be considered.

[mishra]

11 minutes ago, express bowling said:

 

For people who think they are nebulous, let them stay nebulous.

 

People who are interested more about the team's performances  than about the performances of individual players will form a clearer idea on these issues.

Since that Hero cup win in Eden gardens Indian team performance was only Sachins performance 

And that era lasted atleast till kaif and Yuvi won us that Natwest trophy.