Is Islam the least spiritual religion?

[Stradlater]

This isn't a Islam bashing thread or anything so apologies if it looks like that.

I have always wondered this thing about spirituality and Islam. I mean you do have Sufis but even they are considered heretics by many mainstream Muslims.

You never hear the spiritual aspect of it.

Hardly any philosophical questions are asked and even the different schools which exist mostly differ on their interpretation of Quran and Hadiths.

 

It's as if Muslims don't want to think beyond that one book which I found pretty average in quality btw(and of course contradictory on many places but that applies to most of the religious scriptures).

 

Any learned Muslims on this board who can enlighten me about spirituality in Islam?

[Stradlater]

To take my point further, I have lurked on many Islamic discussion forums and all they talk about is Quran and the materialistic aspect of this world.

 

You would hardly see people questioning the reality, inquiring into the metaphysical aspects of our lives and the whole meaning of existence.

It's mostly bickering about some nonsensical stuff like prayer methods and judging others (With the token: Allah will judge them at the time of Qayamat).

Anyone else felt the same way? Please share your thoughts.

Edited May 30, 2018 by Stradlater

[Mariyam]

Not that I consider my self a learned (whatever that is) Muslim, but here is my attempt to explain:

 

@ OP, what you ( or the philosophy in general) essential means by spirituality is the conflict between the soul and the body. And how the two are mutually antagonistic and can flourish only at each other's expense. 

 

Islamic view on spirituality differs as it views the body and the soul as an entity. The body is the medium through which the soul grows and can discharge its duties and responsibilities. Asceticism and 'spiritual' hibernation are shunned in Islam.

 

Maybe @Sooda @Alam_dar @Green Monster can give a better answer.

[Alam_dar]

I am afraid I personally could not comment on this topic. 

 

I know Islam, but I don't know exactly what "spiritualism" is. I have seen Sufis, but what they talk, that I don't understand. I have no contact with Hindu or Christian spiritual figures. 

 

Therefore, before commenting on relation of Islam with spiritualism, the question arises for me "What is exactly this spiritualism"? 

 

Is having a connection with the souls is known as spiritualism? Then yes, Islam has a concept where souls do exist, Jinns also exist, angels also exist, paradise and hell also exist, punishment in the graves also exist. 

 

Although Quran/Hadees do talk about this spiritual world, but both are totally failed to tell how to come in contact or control the souls/Jinns. That is why Sufis claim to have a connection with the spiritual world, but Salafies (i.e. Wahabies) deny them and consider them heretics. 

 

===

 

As far as the spirits, souls, jinns is concerned, then I am an atheist and don't believe in any spiritual world in this sense.

 

There may be other meanings of spiritualism too. May be the hours long meditation (where one concentrates and ponder upon things/issues) also comes under the spiritualism. But unfortunately, I also don't have any introduction to this hours long meditation. I do ponder upon the things a lot, but for this I didn't practise meditation in this sense. 

 

I am a big fan of Buddha, and highly respect him. But this part of his life when he went to the jungles alone, and fasted and meditated for days, or left the worldly pleasures, then this part of his life is little strange for me.  

[panther]

Depends on the sect, salafis hardly any spirituality, on the other hand you have heretical sects like Alevis, bekhtashis who are all about spirituality, most muslims are inbetween the two the middle path as they say.

[kira]

Lol, why did you put a question mark? Of course it the least spiritual and the most materialistic religion made for simpletons/sheep.  But then sufi islam is one of the most spiritual religion out there, however mainstream islam doesn't even recognize sufism as a part of islam so I won't count sufi islam under Islam as well.

[kira]

The interpretation of truth by all abrahamic religion is highly fallacious though, spiritually in all the abrahamic religions are way backward than the eastern religions. 

Edited May 30, 2018 by kira

[MechEng]

Sufism is very spiritual but then it was highly influenced by Indian mysticism.

 

P.S. : We may never really know how Islam used to be in it's initial days, things change a lot with time and Islam is 1400+ years old. A good example is that Christianity was very different 2000 years ago. 

The earliest Christians were Essenes/Gnostics, there were no 10 commandments and organized religion was unheard of (except maybe Judaism).

Edited May 30, 2018 by MechEng

[sandeep]

9 hours ago, Stradlater said:

This isn't a Islam bashing thread or anything

Sorry, but it is.

[dial_100]

That is true with all the religion. But i dont want to get into religious discussions either.

 

I disagree. Islam has lot of references to spirituality. In fact best place to find reference to what chaitanya is or spiritual energy is and how that relates to humans is to look in the Koran. Almost all religions are misunderstood and have digressed from its original path, ever since human have interfered with it. 

 

In spirituality, the goal is to become your own master/guru. In spirituality, all are equal so a mulla and others are at the same level. Those who follow spiritual path, whether since last 1 week or last 50 years, they are still considered the same. So the guy who just turned spiritual doesnt feel lowly that he is new in spiritual world and the guys who is following for 50 years doesnt get into Ego that he has been doing it for 50 years. The journey is so long that they almost the same. Obviously, if people become their own masters then all the mulhas, padris and pandits will loose their importance. Thats why they prefer people to be religious and not spirituals. In spirituality, Mulla becomes redundant unless he is extremely good in spirituality. In religions though, mulla/pandit/Padri is higher than regular disciples.

 

When a guide (or spiritual guru) is passing on the knowledge, he should only use books/references so that disciples get to the right path. But irony is that guides (Gurus/mullas/Padris) use books to beat around, almost to the level where they are dictating to the followers. Primary purpose of the the religion should have been to show the path to the followers so that they could be equipped to make their own decisions for their ascend. That is the main difference between religions and spirituality. 

 

So where Islam and other religions fail is that they make sure that the followers remain followers only and never become independent. Probably Islam is definitely #1 in this sense not that others are any different but at least they have quite a lot of freedom. Like I meet one gentleman, who is a catholic and regularly goes to the church and also comes to learn about meditation/spirituality. Now he understands the meaning of things said in Bible and he argues with father in church and they dont like it. 

[dial_100]

Oh and the most important thing in spirituality is that there is no caste. So we believe that every spiritual person is a bramhin (or a spiritual person). So when I meditate with my group (this is a real example), a pakistani or irani woman, or an indian dalit, or an american catholic or italian athiest and indian baniya, they all are bramhins. Because they have earned it themselves. So when such a person does anything bad against his/her spirituality, he loses that status. There is no certificate given by anybody to anybody. So we are all governed by our own self-mastery to remain in a bramhan state. Things like anger, hate, ego, lust or lethargy would descend our energy automatically. We all know the state of each other at all the time. 

 

see the difference? In a temple/mosque/church, if a corrupt politician or an egoistical bramhin or a materialistic businessman stands in line along with any other ordinary man, we all know who Pujari/Pandit gives preference to. In spiritual world, everybody knows such a person in their meditation. Such person also realizes his state and the fact that others know his state. But nobody judges others but self only.

 

I hope this helps. 

[Muloghonto]

On 5/30/2018 at 12:10 AM, Alam_dar said:

I am afraid I personally could not comment on this topic. 

 

I know Islam, but I don't know exactly what "spiritualism" is. I have seen Sufis, but what they talk, that I don't understand. I have no contact with Hindu or Christian spiritual figures. 

 

Therefore, before commenting on relation of Islam with spiritualism, the question arises for me "What is exactly this spiritualism"? 

 

Is having a connection with the souls is known as spiritualism? Then yes, Islam has a concept where souls do exist, Jinns also exist, angels also exist, paradise and hell also exist, punishment in the graves also exist. 

 

Although Quran/Hadees do talk about this spiritual world, but both are totally failed to tell how to come in contact or control the souls/Jinns. That is why Sufis claim to have a connection with the spiritual world, but Salafies (i.e. Wahabies) deny them and consider them heretics. 

 

===

 

As far as the spirits, souls, jinns is concerned, then I am an atheist and don't believe in any spiritual world in this sense.

 

There may be other meanings of spiritualism too. May be the hours long meditation (where one concentrates and ponder upon things/issues) also comes under the spiritualism. But unfortunately, I also don't have any introduction to this hours long meditation. I do ponder upon the things a lot, but for this I didn't practise meditation in this sense. 

 

I am a big fan of Buddha, and highly respect him. But this part of his life when he went to the jungles alone, and fasted and meditated for days, or left the worldly pleasures, then this part of his life is little strange for me.  

 

As a fellow atheist let me say this - spirituality is something that taken to an extreme is illogical & false. Ie, the whole spirit dimension,independent soul, etc. are nonsense.

 

This does not change the fact that spirituality has a lot to offer, in terms of dealing with emotions or chanelling them .Raising your EQ-call it whatever you will.  But at the core, of spirituality, is emotional 'science'.

However, that being said, the whole concept of spirit is lacking in Islam, because sprituality's main core, is dealing with feelings & enhancing feelings. Islam does not really delve into it much ( and no Abrahamic religion does to the extent of Indic religions) and treats feelings as largely irrelevant.

 

For instance, the Koran, never, for once mentions wtf to do if your feelings get in the way. It just resorts to the risk-reward scenarios of getting screwed by the vengeful, strict God or rewarding by it in 'hearts content' nebulous terminologies.

 

 

[Clarke]

It is the most spiritual. If u live near one of the places of worship, you would realize even the spirits of the dead would wake up from the graves, extremely annoyed at the frequent cacophonous output from the loudspeakers.

[Mariyam]

1 hour ago, Clarke said:

It is the most spiritual. If u live near one of the places of worship, you would realize even the spirits of the dead would wake up from the graves, extremely annoyed at the frequent cacophonous output from the loudspeakers.

Hi Sonu Nigam. Of all your songs, Bijuria was my favourite.

Encore please.

[Clarke]

7 hours ago, Mariyam said:

Hi Sonu Nigam. Of all your songs, Bijuria was my favourite.

Encore please.

Good to know, Mrs Nawaz, that even my faltu songs are also popular across the border. Since you are already a fan, would you be kind enough and discourage those death threats from your fellow countrymen, especially when you become Prime Minister ? 

[dial_100]

" Meer – e – Arab ko Aayi thandi hawan jahan se” “Mera watan wahi hai, mera watan wahi hai.”

(Where the Arabia Leader felt cool breeze coming from, that is my country, that is already my country)

 

As you notice, the actual meaning is is lost in translation. He never asked to conquer the country but he asked all the muslims (or the surrendered ones) to gain that same stuff he described he felt from India. Now this cool breeze he mentioned above is nothing but what indians call param chaitanya, exact same thing. He asked all of you to gain that. Go for spirituality. That is the only essence of koran which is a pure spirituality. 

[Muloghonto]

39 minutes ago, dial_100 said:

" Meer – e – Arab ko Aayi thandi hawan jahan se” “Mera watan wahi hai, mera watan wahi hai.”

(Where the Arabia Leader felt cool breeze coming from, that is my country, that is already my country)

 

As you notice, the actual meaning is is lost in translation. He never asked to conquer the country but he asked all the muslims (or the surrendered ones) to gain that same stuff he described he felt from India. Now this cool breeze he mentioned above is nothing but what indians call param chaitanya, exact same thing. He asked all of you to gain that. Go for spirituality. That is the only essence of koran which is a pure spirituality. 

if the Koran was about spirituality, it'd have devoted the book on the condition of the mind - as Buddhist, Jain or several Hindu texts do.

As it stands, there are barely a few lines dedicated to condition of the mind which does not involve ' if its illegal by the book but you feel this way, its cause Satan is influencing you/vice versa'.

 

Of all major religions, Islam is by far the most materialistic one. Which makes sense, because it originates from a backwards land (even by the standards of the time) that was a desert, where material existence is hard. This is why Islam has several verses on taxes and zero verses on the condition of the mind. 

[KeyboardWarrior]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muraqaba

 

[Alam_dar]

8 hours ago, KeyboardWarrior said:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muraqaba

 

Nothing of this Muraqaba is found in Quran or Hadith. Not a SINGLE thing. It is pure Sufi practices, for which rest of the Muslims blame them to be infidels or innovators.

 

Quran/Hadith do talk about the fantasy stories, like presence of Jinns, soul, and getting inspirations in dreams like dreaming of Prophets. And there are also stories about Sulaiman (Solomon) where he governed upon the Jinns and was got the supernatural powers. But this is not spirituality, but fantasy story. 

 

[KeyboardWarrior]

6 hours ago, Alam_dar said:

Nothing of this Muraqaba is found in Quran or Hadith. Not a SINGLE thing. It is pure Sufi practices, for which rest of the Muslims blame them to be infidels or innovators.

 

Quran/Hadith do talk about the fantasy stories, like presence of Jinns, soul, and getting inspirations in dreams like dreaming of Prophets. And there are also stories about Sulaiman (Solomon) where he governed upon the Jinns and was got the supernatural powers. But this is not spirituality, but fantasy story. 

 

and whats your problem if its thre or not ?

you are an atheist . so why so much worried and waste your time about something you dont believe ?