Getting used to bowl at 140 kph: Hardik Pandya

[Ironhide]

Pandya:  “Honestly, I was not looking to bowl 140s, but was looking to pitch in the right areas. It is pretty good that I am bowling quick. I am now getting used to bowling in the 140s.”

Dhoni too added that it was the addition in pace that made the team management open the bowling with him. “Our thinking was to use him as one of the three seamers. He is quite deceptive. He can bowl quick and he has got movement. He can swing even on wickets where other bowlers don't get that kind of swing.”

He may still look lean, but by his own admission, he has got stronger than before, which has helped him bowl fast. “As a fast bowler, as an all-rounder, you got to be very fit. I definitely wanted to get stronger and I felt the only aspect that would help my bowling was my fitness. I worked hard for two months (after IPL).”
 

http://www.bcci.tv/news/2016/features-and-interviews/14527/getting-used-to-bowl-at-140-kph-hardik-pandya

[express bowling]

7 hours ago, Ironhide said:

Dhoni too added that it was the addition in pace that made the team management open the bowling with him. “Our thinking was to use him as one of the three seamers. He is quite deceptive. He can bowl quick and he has got movement. He can swing even on wickets where other bowlers don't get that kind of swing.”

He may still look lean, but by his own admission, he has got stronger than before, which has helped him bowl fast. “As a fast bowler, as an all-rounder, you got to be very fit. I definitely wanted to get stronger and I felt the only aspect that would help my bowling was my fitness. I worked hard for two months (after IPL).”
 

 

 

 

      

[rkt.india]

and he is fairly too, gets enough bounce with decent pace. That ball to Martin Guptil moved away after pitching with extra bounce, taking the shoulder of the bat. Among current pacers playing for India, only Ishant is taller than him.

[express bowling]

19 minutes ago, rkt.india said:

and he is fairly tall  too, gets enough bounce with decent pace. That ball to Martin Guptil moved away after pitching with extra bounce, taking the shoulder of the bat. Among current pacers playing for India, only Ishant is taller than him.

We have been looking for a tall pacer with bounce and pace.  If he can shape up as a bowler, it will be a big plus.

 

In Australia....he was hitting the deck really hard and matching Aaron for pace and bounce.

Edited October 19, 2016 by express bowling

[express bowling]

At the end of the day, international captains all over the world seem to prefer seamers with pace, unless there is someone with great skill.

 

Makes you wonder why average trundlers like Vinay, Aravind, Unadkat, Rishi Dhawan etc.  keep getting selected from time to time.  They  block the inclusion and slow down the development process of an international class seamer.

 

I remember a statement by Dhoni that Rishi Dhawan is not someone who you can really select in international matches as a bowler...and  although the need to make such a public statement may be questioned....all captains everywhere in the world basically think the same way.

 

Inconsistent Umesh Yadav getting selected ahead of accurate Dhawal Kulkarni  in an ODI  makes you wonder whether his pace is creating an issue  regarding his inclusion.  I  hope I  am wrong though and Dhawal is bowling 135+ these days.

 

 

[MCcricket]

DHAWAL has gone down hill quite a bit last 3 years, after injury his pace dropped and he is not fit enough, he bowls 130 in Domestic , even less sometimes, I don't have any hope from him, atleast Shhardul though mediocre is a trier

[maniac]

7 hours ago, express bowling said:

At the end of the day, international captains all over the world seem to prefer seamers with pace, unless there is someone with great skill.

 

Makes you wonder why average trundlers like Vinay, Aravind, Unadkat, Rishi Dhawan etc.  keep getting selected from time to time.  They  block the inclusion and slow down the development process of an international class seamer.

 

I remember a statement by Dhoni that Rishi Dhawan is not someone who you can really select in international matches as a bowler...and  although the need to make such a public statement may be questioned....all captains everywhere in the world basically think the same way.

 

Inconsistent Umesh Yadav getting selected ahead of accurate Dhawal Kulkarni  in an ODI  makes you wonder whether his pace is creating an issue  regarding his inclusion.  I  hope I  am wrong though and Dhawal is bowling 135+ these days.

 

 

That is because they performed in domestics and were "supposed to be ready".....Apart from Unadkat....who failed both when he was introduced as a raw talent or even when he was given a shot as an experienced and performing domestic player.

 

Unadkat is the perfect case study that a lesser talent will fail regardless of when he is introduced.

 

On the other hand-Rohit played crucial contributions in CB series and T20 2007 when he was a raw talent....same goes for Ishant when he took 5 wickets against Pak when he started,the famous ponting spell and his bowling in CB series.

 

This is why I am lobbying for Pant...The kid has xfactor written all over him.....Needs to get in.

 

Now I will make a case here for likes of Vinay and Rish or even Pankaj getting a chance....A performer toiling in domestics and performing every single chance should be given a chance otherwise what is the motivation factor of playing domestics....but there should be a line in inducting talent...a mix of raw talents with x factor and reward the odd seasoned domestic veteran.....but histroy tells that raw talent will thrive because they have absolutely no fear.

 

Right now Pant is knocking the door of the big leagues....Needs to be in the LOI side ASAP.

[express bowling]

1 hour ago, maniac said:

That is because they performed in domestics and were "supposed to be ready".....Apart from Unadkat....who failed both when he was introduced as a raw talent or even when he was given a shot as an experienced and performing domestic player.

 

Unadkat is the perfect case study that a lesser talent will fail regardless of when he is introduced.

 

On the other hand-Rohit played crucial contributions in CB series and T20 2007 when he was a raw talent....same goes for Ishant when he took 5 wickets against Pak when he started,the famous ponting spell and his bowling in CB series.

 

This is why I am lobbying for Pant...The kid has xfactor written all over him.....Needs to get in.

 

Now I will make a case here for likes of Vinay and Rish or even Pankaj getting a chance....A performer toiling in domestics and performing every single chance should be given a chance otherwise what is the motivation factor of playing domestics....but there should be a line in inducting talent...a mix of raw talents with x factor and reward the odd seasoned domestic veteran.....but histroy tells that raw talent will thrive because they have absolutely no fear.

 

Right now Pant is knocking the door of the big leagues....Needs to be in the LOI side ASAP.

 

There is nothing like " supposed to be ready ".   The first step is to identify players who have the potential to do well in international cricket.  A bowler bowling 125 k  with average skills  will never do well in international cricket.

 

Performance  or experience in domestic cricket  has never been the sole factor for getting a chance in international cricket and never will be and never should be.

 

Introducing players without international potential into the national team and introducing  players with loads of potential before they have a chance to develop their game....are equally ineffective techniques.  At the least,  Pant and Co. need to play a couple of A team series  under the guidance of Dravid.

[sandeep]

4 minutes ago, express bowling said:

 

There is nothing like " supposed to be ready ".   The first step is to identify players who have the potential to do well in international cricket.  A bowler bowling 125 k  with average skills  will never do well in international cricket.

 

Performance  or experience in domestic cricket  has never been the sole factor for getting a chance in international cricket and never will be and never should be.

 

Introducing players without international potential into the national team and introducing  players with loads of potential before they have a chance to develop their game....are equally ineffective techniques.  At the least,  Pant and Co. need to play a couple of A team series  under the guidance of Dravid.

Good post.  And its got to be a case by case thing.  India is short on pace bowling talent, and it makes sense to audition a young guy a bit early once in a while, if the selectors feel he's got the goods from talent/skill perspective.  This is not the case on the batting side, we always have 3-4 batsmen waiting in the wings who can do the job, and 3-4 discards like Robin Uthappa, Rayudu etc who would probably walk into other ODI teams like NZ/PAK/SL etc.  So no need to risk a player's development unnecessarily.  

 

At the end of the day, these are judgement calls, and going from Kumble's interview - we have a head coach who's thinking well beyond the starting XI or even the squad of 15.  These guys are saying and appear to be doing the right things.  Deserve a bit of trust.  Fans have a tendency to get excited and over-eager with "new" names and talents.  Its a bit due to the grass is greener syndrome - the new guy's potential always looks a lot rosier than the one we have.  And there is always a desire to 'churn' players too quickly.  That's how you screw up player development.  India doesn't need to do that. 

 

And not to drag our green neighbors into a discussion, but boy I was thankful to see Kumble's interview - the contrast couldn't be starker.  Each and every former Pak player who gets involved with their team after retirement has demonstrated ego-based me-first behavior, trying to set himself up as "the man" and the savior.  Look at Kumble, humble, efficient, professional - focused on doing the small things without trying to big himself up.  We share the same cultural background, but Indian Cricket culture has diverged from the Pak one and we should be really happy about that.  

[philcric]

^ Good post

 

[maniac]

51 minutes ago, sandeep said:

Good post.  And its got to be a case by case thing.  India is short on pace bowling talent, and it makes sense to audition a young guy a bit early once in a while, if the selectors feel he's got the goods from talent/skill perspective.  This is not the case on the batting side, we always have 3-4 batsmen waiting in the wings who can do the job, and 3-4 discards like Robin Uthappa, Rayudu etc who would probably walk into other ODI teams like NZ/PAK/SL etc.  So no need to risk a player's development unnecessarily.  

 

At the end of the day, these are judgement calls, and going from Kumble's interview - we have a head coach who's thinking well beyond the starting XI or even the squad of 15.  These guys are saying and appear to be doing the right things.  Deserve a bit of trust.  Fans have a tendency to get excited and over-eager with "new" names and talents.  Its a bit due to the grass is greener syndrome - the new guy's potential always looks a lot rosier than the one we have.  And there is always a desire to 'churn' players too quickly.  That's how you screw up player development.  India doesn't need to do that. 

 

And not to drag our green neighbors into a discussion, but boy I was thankful to see Kumble's interview - the contrast couldn't be starker.  Each and every former Pak player who gets involved with their team after retirement has demonstrated ego-based me-first behavior, trying to set himself up as "the man" and the savior.  Look at Kumble, humble, efficient, professional - focused on doing the small things without trying to big himself up.  We share the same cultural background, but Indian Cricket culture has diverged from the Pak one and we should be really happy about that.  

While I agree with the basis context of your post...sometimes it helps to pull the trigger when you see a special gifted talent.

 

How many years of domestic development did Sachin have?

 

As I mentioned Unadkat failed as a raw exciting talent...went back picked a load of wickets and came back just as ordinary as he was in the first place....Garbage will be garbage most of the time.

 

Samson is another player I think has suffered from this theory...when he came on to the scene he was pulling and smashing likes of Lee,Steyn etc in IPL...now playing too many domestics,last time I saw him in IPL didn't look that much comfortable against 140+ k'S bowling.

 

There is a thing called too late when it comes to talent but there is never any harm in too soon to find out what a player can bring to the table.

[Vilander]

1 hour ago, sandeep said:

Good post.  And its got to be a case by case thing.  India is short on pace bowling talent, and it makes sense to audition a young guy a bit early once in a while, if the selectors feel he's got the goods from talent/skill perspective.  This is not the case on the batting side, we always have 3-4 batsmen waiting in the wings who can do the job, and 3-4 discards like Robin Uthappa, Rayudu etc who would probably walk into other ODI teams like NZ/PAK/SL etc.  So no need to risk a player's development unnecessarily.  

 

At the end of the day, these are judgement calls, and going from Kumble's interview - we have a head coach who's thinking well beyond the starting XI or even the squad of 15.  These guys are saying and appear to be doing the right things.  Deserve a bit of trust.  Fans have a tendency to get excited and over-eager with "new" names and talents.  Its a bit due to the grass is greener syndrome - the new guy's potential always looks a lot rosier than the one we have.  And there is always a desire to 'churn' players too quickly.  That's how you screw up player development.  India doesn't need to do that. 

 

And not to drag our green neighbors into a discussion, but boy I was thankful to see Kumble's interview - the contrast couldn't be starker.  Each and every former Pak player who gets involved with their team after retirement has demonstrated ego-based me-first behavior, trying to set himself up as "the man" and the savior.  Look at Kumble, humble, efficient, professional - focused on doing the small things without trying to big himself up.  We share the same cultural background, but Indian Cricket culture has diverged from the Pak one and we should be really happy about that.  

good post, 

 

On the bolded part. The happy point to note it that, what ever cultural background that we shared with them is well in the distant past, now there is not much in common, as it is India and pak are drastically different and we should strive to distance ourselves from them in every way naturally, so that eventually there is nothing common left and we can totally avoid any Indianness in them.

[maniac]

Forget a failure like Unadkut or a once in a lifetime cricketer like Sachin...let us take case study of someone like Afridi

 

Yes him playing for 20 years was ridiculous but when he scored a 37 ball 100 he was a raw talent......he remained a hack and a decent leg spinner throughout his career but let us say had someone like Afridi been in domestics for a while....would that have made a difference to his game?

 

I don't think so.

 

Had he had the right kind of environment and grooming from that century on don't you think he would have been a much much better player as he could bowl decentish leg-spin and was a good fielder for Pakistani standards?

 

 

For what it's worth he ended up being a decent utility LOI cricketer for Pakistan even though they treat him as some sort of an icon.

 

Making him a legend and an icon was the stupidity of Pak fans and that hurt them more but can't deny that in his case introducing him as a raw talent had  benefits.

 

There are more such examples than vice-versa.

 

Introducing raw talents have had more benefits than loses in my opinion...in fact waiting on a player for too long has done more damage

Edited October 19, 2016 by maniac

[express bowling]

Gauging  the stage of development of a player's game and his mental maturity  are  very important before introducing him in international cricket.  The basic game needs to be in place.   Let's take the case of  Jadeja the batsman. Even after so many years, he cannot play the short ball properly  and has an acute problem against the off stump delivery.  He is doing great as a bowler but has failed as a batsman due to these issues. His game is not fully developed as a batsman despite those 3 300s.  He  can only succeed consistently with the bat, especially in test matches or in the top order, when he rectifies these issues.

 

Sachin had a reasonably  developed game when he debuted  and I  don't think anyone will dispute this, that players like him are not that common.

 

How much do we know about Pant's game ?  How many matches have we seen  him in against senior cricket  bowlers  ? He may have a reasonably developed game or  may not....we don't really know.

 

Kuldeep Yadav has a much more developed game as a bowler.

Edited October 19, 2016 by express bowling

[maniac]

30 minutes ago, express bowling said:

Gauging  the stage of development of a player's game and his mental maturity  are  very important before introducing him in international cricket.  The basic game needs to be in place.   Let's take the case of  Jadeja the batsman. Even after so many years, he cannot play the short ball properly  and has an acute problem against the off stump delivery.  He is doing great as a bowler but has failed as a batsman due to these issues. His game is not fully developed as a batsman despite those 3 300s.  He  can only succeed consistently with the bat, especially in test matches or in the top order, when he rectifies these issues.

 

Sachin had a reasonably  developed game when he debuted  and I  don't think anyone will dispute this, that players like him are not that common.

 

How much do we know about Pant's game ?  How many matches have we seen  him in against senior cricket  bowlers  ? He may have a reasonably developed game or  may not....we don't really know.

 

Kuldeep Yadav has a much more developed game as a bowler.

How would have playing longer in domestics helped him in that aspect? or how did being introduced too early hinder him in that aspect? introduced early or not did not make any difference to him in domestics where he was still bullying bowlers especially on flat and slow pitches.

 

He came in early and was raw with the bat agreed...went back to domestics piled plenty of runs...came back but was still not good enough with the bat...so how did introducing him early effect him or playing domestics change him?

 

Indian domestics is not the right place to work on weaknesses against short ball in this particular case...if someone has the right tools,and is good in every other aspect he will figure it out in internationals as well.

 

Ganguly was terrible on the leg side when he started...did not go to domestics to fix that problem...did he...he knew his strengths...stuck to it and worked gradually on his weakness?

 

Now let us take examples of u-19 talent Unmukt Chand looked like deer in headlights against quality 140+ bowlers in IPL....now there you can see a scope of working on his game and making a comeback as an improved player and getting some confidence ,while on the other hand someone like Samson in his rookie year was pulling and smashing likes of Steyn and Brett Lee....infact Samson has lost a bit of his aura recently that he ahd when he burst on to the scene....You always need the momentum to take you forward....if you stop and try to figure it out,it will either slow down or stop completely.

 

Right now with IPL and domestics,Pant has the momentum.....even Sarfaraz if he works on his other issues seems to have that fearless x factor in him.

Edited October 19, 2016 by maniac

[vishalvirsingh]

12 hours ago, express bowling said:

We have been looking for a tall pacer with bounce and pace.  If he can shape up as a bowler, it will be a big plus.

 

In Australia....he was hitting the deck really hard and matching Aaron for pace and bounce.

Was he around 145 to 148k

[maniac]

^^Just to add @express bowling to your final point...Yes Kuldeep yadav is ready for the big leagues

[express bowling]

25 minutes ago, maniac said:

How would have playing longer in domestics helped him in that aspect? or how did being introduced too early hinder him in that aspect? introduced early or not did not make any difference to him in domestics where he was still bullying bowlers especially on flat and slow pitches.

 

He came in early and was raw with the bat agreed...went back to domestics piled plenty of runs...came back but was still not good enough with the bat...so how did introducing him early effect him or playing domestics change him?

 

Indian domestics is not the right place to work on weaknesses against short ball in this particular case...if someone has the right tools,and is good in every other aspect he will figure it out in internationals as well.

 

Ganguly was terrible on the leg side when he started...did not go to domestics to fix that problem...did he...he knew his strengths...stuck to it and worked gradually on his weakness?

 

Now let us take examples of u-19 talent Unmukt Chand looked like deer in headlights against quality 140+ bowlers in IPL....now there you can see a scope of working on his game and making a comeback as an improved player and getting some confidence ,while on the other hand someone like Samson in his rookie year was pulling and smashing likes of Steyn and Brett Lee....infact Samson has lost a bit of his aura recently that he ahd when he burst on to the scene....You always need the momentum to take you forward....if you stop and try to figure it out,it will either slow down or stop completely.

 

Right now with IPL and domestics,Pant has the momentum.....even Sarfaraz if he works on his other issues seems to have that fearless x factor in him.

 

As  I  have said before...  I  did not mean playing more and moire Ranji Trophy only but playing  more good quality FC matches.  Budding players need to play A team matches, go on such tours, play against touring sides in BP XI games and such, play Duleep Trophy, Deodhar trophy featuring 3 strong teams consisting of top players from all over India....work under coaches like Dravid, iron out their problems at the NCA  etc.  It is a complete process.  We  need more A tours and  Duleep Trophy  in a league form, to  develop players better at FC level.

 

We actually need to have a focused program for identified talent, to accelerate their development. It is possible that with Dravid  at the helm of the A team and U19s and Kumble monitoring their progress in consultation with Dravid.....it  has  finally  started to happen.

 

It is a tad unfortunate that Pant did not get to score the 300 before Duleep Trophy. If he did then he would perhaps have been picked  to play in Duleep and would have had a chance to bat against good bowlers.

 

What  I want now is for the  players with international potential to play for the A team immediately and train under Dravid.

 

Edited October 19, 2016 by express bowling

[express bowling]

14 minutes ago, vishalvirsingh said:

Was he around 145 to 148k

 

There were no speed guns....but both Aaron and  Pandya were hitting the deck hard and looking very fast.

[sandeep]

You expose a player to top level competition before he fully  builds out his skill-set and confidence, you risk destroying his confidence.  Even a colossal prodigy like Tendulkar has said, that only after a bit of success did he feel that he was good enough and belonged at the international level.  

 

Don't know if you guys are familiar with NFL - but its the David Carr thing.  Carr was a highly reputed quarterback prospect and was drafted early by the expansion Houston Texans.  He was widely expected to be a star player as he picked up experience at the NFL level.  Problem was he played behind a crappy offensive line that led him to being sacked way too many times.  This early exposure without the proper support is widely attributed to his stagnation as a player.  He ended up being a journeyman backup QB.  

 

Confidence is important for any sportsman, and cricket is no exception.  If a young batsman who has not really developed his all around game - has a few strengths, but hasn't had to really contend with top bowlers probing and exposing chinks in his game, you throw him out there and he fails - he may never make it back to that level.  He may lose self-belief.  Same goes for a bowler.  Let a young player go through a first class season or so, an A tour if possible - let him face varying pitch conditions and game situations with a decent opposition, before you just throw him into the national team.  Selectors job is to not only pick promising players, but put them in situations which increase their chances of success.  Clamoring for an early debut after a handful of FC games is high risk, low reward.  Just the opposite of what is good for a team and its players.  

 

And not to forget, you want to set a precedent for all players of having earned selection based on consistent performances.  If you start picking random players on the backs of odd performances here and there, its a lottery type scenario and hurts the morale and motivations of the other guys competing for selection.  Why would any organization jeopardize its pipeline? It wouldn't unless it was guided by the thinking of a teenage arm-chair fanboy.  Cricket is a sport that demands high skills - physical as well as mental.  Its not enough for someone to have brute strength or freakish hand-eye co-ordination - you have to be able to use raw physical skills in conjunction with a solid temperament and mental abilities of shot selection, understanding of game situation etc  These things are not just cultivated overnight or ingrained "talent" - it takes years of hard work and practice to build them into good instincts and muscle memory.  

 

Anyway, to summarize this overly wordy lecture - Stop pant-gasming over Rishabh Panth :D.  If he has what it takes, his time will come.  Especially because he will be maturing as a cricketer at just the right time when the incumbent 'keeper batsman is going to ride off into the sunset.