Virat Kohli, Mitchell Starc & MS Dhoni voted best in world by peers .Bhuvi voted the 3rd best bowler

[Pollack]

2 minutes ago, Ultimate_Game said:

Yup and DeKock and Buttler are legends. Yup I get it   

Oh the irony of you calling others haters  

Take that argument to the one who called DeKock and Butler legend. I for one certainly didn't. You would do good to scroll back a bit again. 

 

[CG]

Just now, sandeep said:

When bowlers play a game where 380 is almost chased down, their numbers will suffer.   If you can't see that Bhuvi has comfortably out-bowled Yadav with the white ball in the last year or so; in spite of all the improvements Yadav has made, then you are a victim of willful blindness.  Yadav has definitely improved a lot from his spray-gun days around 2013.  So much so, that he's a viable selection option for the ODI team, unlike say, Ishant Sharma.  But he's still a comfortable 4th best behind Shami, Bhuvi, and Bumrah.   

Okay lets agree to disagree on diff between yadav and bhuvi.Even my first three are shami,bhuvi,bumrah but i thinkthe gap between them is minimal and each bring diff skill to attack.

[Pollack]

10 minutes ago, Rasgulla said:

Pollocks best keeper

No. Here is Pollock's best Keeper whose keeping skills are well known: 

 

[Vilander]

1 minute ago, Ultimate_Game said:

No I don't "hate" Yadav. I simply don't think he's suited for shorter formats. If I really "hated" Umesh i wouldn't call him our best Test bowler and want him in my Test team.

 

If I "hate" Umesh I guess I also hate Murali Vijay, Pujara and Rahane coz I don't want any of them to play for India in shorter formats and focus on Tests  

UG just honestly keep track of the times you bring in Umesh when ever bhuvi does well, do it yourself. And Sandeep should do the same. Most of the pace thread gang wont care about obvious trolls, but i am asking you guys as sensible posts to see reason.

[Ultimate_Game]

Just now, Pollack said:

Take that argument to the one who called DeKock and Butler legend. I for one certainly didn't. You would do good to scroll back a bit again. 

 

Well since Dhoni is ranked the number 1 wkt keeper with DeKock second and others including Buttler trailing by a mile, I assumed if Dhoni is "nothing special" others were  

 

Or maybe you think likes of Sarfraz or Akmal or Saha are special in shorter formats  

[CG]

4 minutes ago, New guy said:

When average was averaging over 50 this year in tests and Bhuvi 15, you guys made a million excuse for that average. Green tops, Yadav not getting continuous runs, etc, etc. Bhuvi's test average is much better than Yadav's still you would want Yadav over Bhuvi (and with valid reasons)  But somehow Bhuvi's ODI average is always brought up

Its brought up to show his lack of wicket taking skills which he has to improve.Yadav was poor last season and on verge of being dropped before england series.Yadav too has long way to go to being even a good test bowler benchmark has to be 30.

[Rasgulla]

If umesh is that good why is he thrown out of the match before and Bhuvi still  playing  Its not the first time he was thrown out under kohli anyway...

 

Sad enough can't even blame the captain anymore 

[sandeep]

Just now, Vilander said:

really you are saying Yadav bowling is a srinath batting in comparison to Bhuv bowling being SRT's batting. You are being delusional buddy. 

No.  What I'm saying is that if you look at both their body of work over an extended period of time over the last 8 months, then you'll be able to see which one is the better, more consistent performer.   Umesh Yadav is the Shahid Afridi of Indian ODI bowling.  His fans will remember and hype up his once in 25 game good performances, while justifying and/or excusing his pedestrian ones most of the time.  

 

Dude, I have a lot of love for Yadav - love his work ethic, absolutely love the effort he has put in, to become the best fielder among all bowlers after Jadeja.   He wasn't like that when he first made the team.  And have no words to express my respect for his stud effort as a workhorse for the Indian test team.  The guy has been a high-pace high effort bowling machine for so many tests. And did it without breaking down, or dropping his pace too much.  And markedly improved his bowling quality as well in the last 2 years, with the red ball.  

 

But when it comes to LOI cricket - also an area where he has visibly improved a lot - Bhuvi is still the better option - now that he's upped his pace to around 140s.   Bhuvi's accuracy, and for me, his special rare ability to move the ball both ways, his control over his knuckleball and yorkers, make him an automatic pick for the ODI team, along with Bumrah.  And even if you put aside their on-paper skills and abilities - Bhuvi has simply outperformed Yadav.  

[Rasgulla]

2 minutes ago, Pollack said:

No. Here is Pollock's best Keeper whose keeping skills are well known: 

 

Talking about present not retired once  where do you see mark bou in that survey

[Pollack]

1 minute ago, Ultimate_Game said:

Well since Dhoni is ranked the number 1 wkt keeper with DeKock second and others including Buttler trailing by a mile, I assumed if Dhoni is "nothing special" others were  

 

Or maybe you think likes of Sarfraz or Akmal or Saha are special in shorter formats  

What a weak comeback. So if I say Dhoni is nothing special besides stumpings you assume I meant others are legends.   Fanboyism wipes out a lot of sense from an individual.

[Vilander]

1 minute ago, sandeep said:

No.  What I'm saying is that if you look at both their body of work over an extended period of time over the last 8 months, then you'll be able to see which one is the better, more consistent performer.   Umesh Yadav is the Shahid Afridi of Indian ODI bowling.  His fans will remember and hype up his once in 25 game good performances, while justifying and/or excusing his pedestrian ones most of the time.  

 

Dude, I have a lot of love for Yadav - love his work ethic, absolutely love the effort he has put in, to become the best fielder among all bowlers after Jadeja.   He wasn't like that when he first made the team.  And have no words to express my respect for his stud effort as a workhorse for the Indian test team.  The guy has been a high-pace high effort bowling machine for so many tests. And did it without breaking down, or dropping his pace too much.  And markedly improved his bowling quality as well in the last 2 years, with the red ball.  

 

But when it comes to LOI cricket - also an area where he has visibly improved a lot - Bhuvi is still the better option - now that he's upped his pace to around 140s.   Bhuvi's accuracy, and for me, his special rare ability to move the ball both ways, his control over his knuckleball and yorkers, make him an automatic pick for the ODI team, along with Bumrah.  And even if you put aside their on-paper skills and abilities - Bhuvi has simply outperformed Yadav.  

fair post, i agree word by word. But there is no need to bring in Yadav for every Bhuvi achievement. And Yadav has to be in the scheme of things for LOI's as well. bhuvi is certainly better in LOI than Yadav from what we have seen.

[Pollack]

2 minutes ago, Rasgulla said:

Talking about present not retired once  where do you see mark bou in that survey

So where do you see me praising Sarfaraz . Didnt even comment whether dhoni's voted being best is justified or not. Its the other poster who did that.

[Ultimate_Game]

1 minute ago, Vilander said:

UG just honestly keep track of the times you bring in Umesh when ever bhuvi does well, do it yourself. And Sandeep should do the same. Most of the pace thread gang wont care about obvious trolls, but i am asking you guys as sensible posts to see reason.

When the discussion is related to bowling and selection of pacers it's logical that Bhuvi, Bumrah, Umesh and Shami's name would come up. There are 4 of them and only 2-3 spots to go. I've backed Bhuvi since before CT and was one of the few who wanted him in the team along with Bumrah with the third pacer being Shami/Umesh, preferably Shami. I've been consistent with my view and the performances so far have justified my argument so I don't really understand why I'm a "hater" for pointing it out  

 

If you want to see the real definition of hate check out posts where people seem butthurt that Dhoni is ranked number 1, and that too by a distance, and still taking shots at him   Definition of a hater is hating someone for no reason. In my case I've backed my argument with performances and stats (e.g., Umesh having the 3rd highest ER in odi history for bowlers with more than 50 wkts). I would back the same Umesh to be in the Test team over others and as I said if I was a "hater" why would i do so?

 

I've the same position on Rahane, Pujara and Murali Vijay, i.e. they are not good enough to play shorter formats just like Umesh. That doesn't mean I "hate" them. It simply means I'm not convinced they are good enough to play shorter formats. IMO your definition of "hater" is incorrect.

[Mosher]

1 hour ago, sandeep said:

But, but but where's Yadav?  Bhuvi's a trundler and should be benched for Yadav's phaaast pace.  

Poor post. Happy that Bhuvi is rated so highly by peers. But what the * has Umesh to do with this? Why the need to bring him here?  

[Ultimate_Game]

6 minutes ago, Pollack said:

What a weak comeback. So if I say Dhoni is nothing special besides stumpings you assume I meant others are legends.   Fanboyism wipes out a lot of sense from an individual.

I can see what you mean with your comments  

[Vilander]

Just now, Ultimate_Game said:

When the discussion is related to bowling and selection of pacers it's logical that Bhuvi, Bumrah, Umesh and Shami's name would come up. There are 4 of them and only 2-3 spots to go. I've backed Bhuvi since before CT and was one of the few who wanted him in the team along with Bumrah with the third pacer being Shami/Umesh, preferably Shami. I've been consistent with my view and the performances so far have justified my argument so I don't really understand why I'm a "hater" for pointing it out  

 

If you want to see the real definition of hate check out posts where people seem butthurt that Dhoni is ranked number 1, and that too by a distance, and still taking shots at him   Definition of a hater is hating someone for no reason. In my case I've backed my argument with performances and stats (e.g., Umesh having the 3rd highest ER in odi history for bowlers with more than 50 wkts). I would back the same Umesh to be in the Test team over others and as I said if I was a "hater" why would i do so?

 

I've the same position on Rahane, Pujara and Murali Vijay, i.e. they are not good enough to play shorter formats just like Umesh. That doesn't mean I "hate" them. It simply means I'm not convinced they are good enough to play shorter formats. IMO your definition of "hater" is incorrect.

ok thats more sensible agreeable, i agree on Dhoni hate just ignore it.

[sandeep]

2 minutes ago, Vilander said:

fair post, i agree word by word. But there is no need to bring in Yadav for every Bhuvi achievement. And Yadav has to be in the scheme of things for LOI's as well. bhuvi is certainly better in LOI than Yadav from what we have seen.

Of course he is.  All players contribute in their own way - and as long as they do so to the max of their abilities - I will always have nothing but love for them.  Even the fading and declining ones.   Or the limited ones.  Heck, even the likes of Rayudu, etc are, at the end of the day, guys that represented Team India, and did their best.  Pointing out that other players are better packages than a certain player doesn't make me a hater - as long as I don't descend into bashing.  

 

My comment earlier in this thread was tongue-in-cheek.   And aimed at the handful of posters who posted their desire to see Bhuvi benched for Yadav for the South Africa game.   And used "stats" to back their point.  

[CG]

1 minute ago, Ultimate_Game said:

When the discussion is related to bowling and selection of pacers it's logical that Bhuvi, Bumrah, Umesh and Shami's name would come up. There are 4 of them and only 2-3 spots to go. I've backed Bhuvi since before CT and was one of the few who wanted him in the team along with Bumrah with the third pacer being Shami/Umesh, preferably Shami. I've been consistent with my view and the performances so far have justified my argument so I don't really understand why I'm a "hater" for pointing it out  

 

If you want to see the real definition of hate check out posts where people seem butthurt that Dhoni is ranked number 1, and that too by a distance, and still taking shots at him   Definition of a hater is hating someone for no reason. In my case I've backed my argument with performances and stats (e.g., Umesh having the 3rd highest ER in odi history for bowlers with more than 50 wkts). I would back the same Umesh to be in the Test team over others and as I said if I was a "hater" why would i do so?

 

I've the same position on Rahane, Pujara and Murali Vijay, i.e. they are not good enough to play shorter formats just like Umesh. That doesn't mean I "hate" them. It simply means I'm not convinced they are good enough to play shorter formats. IMO your definition of "hater" is incorrect.

Man u need to check ur glasses if i read the graph correctly its 13 vs 12 between dekock and dhoni.

[MCcricket]

1 hour ago, Ultimate_Game said:

Unfortunately the ICC rankings are not decided by speedguns but based on performances   I'm actually surprised Bumrah doesn't appear on the list.

I'm surprised your Sandy the great swinger not first in the list.

[Pollack]

7 minutes ago, Ultimate_Game said:

I can see what you mean with your comments  

It would be better if you can comprehend what you wrote or assumed first rather than knowing what others mean which is not your cup of tea.

You logic : If someone says  X is nothing special means Y and Z is legend according to him.  Great logic sir.

 

 

Edited June 13, 2017 by Pollack