War is coming

[Clarke]

18 hours ago, putrevus said:

That does not answer the question.Have the public of Kashmir given a choice to choose what they want.

 

If u wanted to look at it with tunnel vision then no. But then mindless azadi does not achieve anything. The United States fought a long & bloody civil war to keep the Union together and abolish slavery. We needed to do the same to keep the country together and avoid an Islamic theocracy on our border built on the blood of pandits.

 

Tomorrow if your apartment or society declares independence from your country will u support such idiocy or will you draw the line at x thousand people and not below that. 

[Vickydev]

17 hours ago, mishra said:

Because Russian are also running misinformation campaign in local language that he and his cabinet has fled the country.

Fair enough but if he gets captured/exiled and/or killed, this war is effectively over there and then

[bharathh]

21 hours ago, putrevus said:

 

China would demolish India in every front. 

I'm happy to hear your analysis

[bharathh]

21 hours ago, Lone Wolf said:

This was before China brought all of its firepower in last year or so right on our head.  We should have given them bloody nose right after Galwan & we were at so much advantage. 

Right now they are building/expanding their airfields....  Brought S400 & its Chinese copies in Xinjiang.  Missile silos in Tibet & what not.  Not to mention rocket artillery in thousands. 

Modi gave up heights along Kailash Range as well in exchange for setting up buffer zones along Pangong. 

Depsang bulge is in their hands as of now.  China is sitting pretty atm...  Though I totally understand why GOI is reluctant & laid back on this issue.   India right now is not in any position to start a conflict. 

IAF doesn't even has its required 42 fighter squadrons & has only 30 as of now.  We have a lot to catch up right now. 

Only edge that we have over China is geography & we have effectively ruled out a Naval conflict with them. 

You wrist slitters are welcome to your doom and gloom. 

 

Have enough ppl from my family in the armed forces to trust them when they say they are prepared. 

[Lone Wolf]

11 minutes ago, bharathh said:

You wrist slitters are welcome to your doom and gloom. 

 

Have enough ppl from my family in the armed forces to trust them when they say they are prepared. 

Don't worry I come from a Army family as well.   Reality is often different from blind jingoism.  Basically every Indian General has written briefly about in last year.   Ata Hasnain, Gen  HS Panag have given their opinions on this issue before.  Panag holds the unique distinction of carrying Indian Tanks right onto Karakoram pass & SSN

Edited February 26, 2022 by Lone Wolf

[someone]

Missiles, numbers comes later, the foremost is deterrence. Thus, for India, it has to rethink about NFU. How does that help, and where exactly is the first mover advantage? I think some analysts has also been talking about just NFU against non-nuclear nations.

 

Next, is intelligence. This undoubtedly is India achilles heel. War is always won by information. So how much we actually watch, and know the external countries ? And how much can we protect our own secrets and movement. The latter is difficult as we are filled with many traitors. Of course, our intelligence gathering has improved since 2014, with strikes on foreign soils, and ability to react to border skirmishes. But it is a long way to go...

[rangeelaraja]

1 hour ago, Lone Wolf said:

Don't worry I come from a Army family as well.   Reality is often different from blind jingoism.  Basically every Indian General has written briefly about in last year.   Ata Hasnain, Gen  HS Panag have given their opinions on this issue before.  Panag holds the unique distinction of carrying Indian Tanks right onto Karakoram pass & SSN

 

Gen Panag the  former military man is very different from what he is now after joining politics and a gutter political party like AAP led by a fraud like Kejriwal.

 

All Gen Panag does is play dirty political games under the cloak of an army general and try to discredit everything about the current BJP  govt.

 

 

[Lone Wolf]

19 minutes ago, rangeelaraja said:

 

Gen Panag the  former military man is very different from what he is now after joining politics and a gutter political party like AAP led by a fraud like Kejriwal.

 

All Gen Panag does is play dirty political games under the cloak of an army general and try to discredit everything about the current BJP  govt.

 

 

You cannot discount the experience of these guys...  These are only few names on top of my head.  Read a lot of articles from other experts as well.  

My uncle has served in Siachen explained the whole geography one day of the region & what China was aiming at.   They were annoyed at the construction of road that led to airfield at DBO which is right underneath Karakoram & that's why they halted its construction.  Modi basically has given in to all those demands & we don't have access to Karakoram pass anymore...  No patrols are allowed as they have set up camps along Depsang plains..  Talks have been futile to resolve the issue...  That's equation in Sub sector North (SSN) .  Basically land has been salami sliced yet again. 

Pangong has been a bit if success compared to SSN but still buffer zones are set up in exchange of vacating the heights along Kailash range. 

 

Army Chief & IAF chief aren't kidding when they are saying there is a threat of conflict along LAC

 

[bharathh]

2 hours ago, Lone Wolf said:

Don't worry I come from a Army family as well.   Reality is often different from blind jingoism.  Basically every Indian General has written briefly about in last year.   Ata Hasnain, Gen  HS Panag have given their opinions on this issue before.  Panag holds the unique distinction of carrying Indian Tanks right onto Karakoram pass & SSN

If reality is to keep wrist slitting.. I disagree. 

 

That said, what the army can and cannot do is not in public domain. We can sit and become armchair generals. If India was such a pushover... China would have rolled over us a long time back. Makes me believe that there is something keeping them in check. I believe it is my country s army. 

 

You guys can entertain yourselves believing in the worst. 

 

Until we have the NDA the army has the authority to act independently. If God forbid we become the victims of a coalition govt again I will join your wrist slitting camp. The armed forces will have to work against the CCP and internal forcea. 

[Lone Wolf]

12 minutes ago, bharathh said:

If reality is to keep wrist slitting.. I disagree. 

 

That said, what the army can and cannot do is not in public domain. We can sit and become armchair generals. If India was such a pushover... China would have rolled over us a long time back. Makes me believe that there is something keeping them in check. I believe it is my country s army. 

 

You guys can entertain yourselves believing in the worst. 

 

Until we have the NDA the army has the authority to act independently. If God forbid we become the victims of a coalition govt again I will join your wrist slitting camp. The armed forces will have to work against the CCP and internal forcea. 

Nukes are what keeping them in check.  India isn't a pushover by any means for anyone.  We have a better/proven military even if they aren't that modern & don't have their shiny toys or gear.  Once we have our own military Industrial complex we will be able compete with China on even footing.  Modi & Rajnath need to work on that...  They have given statements yesterday on that but we will see.  In the end Atmanirbhar Bharat in defence is what we should aim for. 

[rangeelaraja]

31 minutes ago, Lone Wolf said:

You cannot discount the experience of these guys...  These are only few names on top of my head.  Read a lot of articles from other experts as well.  

My uncle has served in Siachen explained the whole geography one day of the region & what China was aiming at.   They were annoyed at the construction of road that led to airfield at DBO which is right underneath Karakoram & that's why they halted its construction.  Modi basically has given in to all those demands & we don't have access to Karakoram pass anymore...  No patrols are allowed as they have set up camps along Depsang plains..  Talks have been futile to resolve the issue...  That's equation in Sub sector North (SSN) .  Basically land has been salami sliced yet again. 

Pangong has been a bit if success compared to SSN but still buffer zones are set up in exchange of vacating the heights along Kailash range. 

 

Army Chief & IAF chief aren't kidding when they are saying there is a threat of conflict along LAC

 

 

WTF experience...Panag  is becoming a  SM troll. 

 

It is the army leadership and army intelligence role to keep up with the threats...do you expect Modi to personally guard the borders or do the job of the army leadership ?

 

While the army is a highly respected institution and rightly so...the jawans and young majors and captains folks we are extremely indebted to.

 

The army intelligence was  sleeping which led to Kargil, after 20 years the incompetent a$$holes were again caught napping when China moved into the buffer zone in multiple areas in SSN.

 

Is the fFing army intelligence and army leadership above blame ???? They deserve all the fFing blame.

 

Why it that again and again we are fFing caught napping ??? Why were the local commanders not fired for this gross incompetency ?

 

The civilian leadership under BJP is to blame for a few things...but not when it has to do with the army failing to preempt and act on border threats.

 

 

 

[Lone Wolf]

21 minutes ago, rangeelaraja said:

 

WTF experience...Panag  is becoming a  SM troll. 

 

It is the army leadership and army intelligence role to keep up with the threats...do you expect Modi to personally guard the borders or do the job of the army leadership ?

 

While the army is a highly respected institution and rightly so...the jawans and young majors and captains folks we are extremely indebted to.

 

The army intelligence was  sleeping which led to Kargil, after 20 years the incompetent a$$holes were again caught napping when China moved into the buffer zone in multiple areas in SSN.

 

Is the fFing army intelligence and army leadership above blame ???? They deserve all the fFing blame.

 

Why it that again and again we are fFing caught napping ??? Why were the local commanders not fired for this gross incompetency ?

 

The civilian leadership under BJP is to blame for a few things...but not when it has to do with the army failing to preempt and act on border threats.

 

 

 

I said it earlier that I have not blamed Modi or GOI at all on it just saying the perception everything is all right is not correct.  Also we don't need to hail GOI for any military success as well.  Their job is making & working on our foreign policy & overall I feel S jaishankar has done a great job so far.  We were able to gather support at least morally on China worldwide.  If anything both MMS & Modi government have acted a lot similarly on the issue. 

 

There's this China Study group in our defence talks that gives advice to PM & NSA on China front.  Their job is to understand chinses psyche & what are their motives.  

We don't have shortage of experienced generals who can maneuver accordingly.  Army did give bloody reply to Chinese at Galwan.  They could have taught a lesson to Paxtan on 28th of Feb 2019 as well. 

But at the end even their hands are tied.  Diplomacy comes first & rightly so. 

[rangeelaraja]

54 minutes ago, Lone Wolf said:

I said it earlier that I have not blamed Modi or GOI at all on it just saying the perception everything is all right is not correct.  Also we don't need to hail GOI for any military success as well.  Their job is making & working on our foreign policy & overall I feel S jaishankar has done a great job so far.  We were able to gather support at least morally on China worldwide.  If anything both MMS & Modi government have acted a lot similarly on the issue. 

 

There's this China Study group in our defence talks that gives advice to PM & NSA on China front.  Their job is to understand chinses psyche & what are their motives.  

We don't have shortage of experienced generals who can maneuver accordingly.  Army did give bloody reply to Chinese at Galwan.  They could have taught a lesson to Paxtan on 28th of Feb 2019 as well. 

But at the end even their hands are tied.  Diplomacy comes first & rightly so. 

 

The only way India must deal with China is to act like North Korea against them - which is disproportionate brute reaction to any adventure, absolute ruthless and disproportionate retaliations to any challenge.   

 

For all those talking up about China's military capabilities ( which are totally untested )  --- North Korea is less than 5 % of the combined military might of South Korea, Japan, and US - yet it has managed to psyche them out with mutually assured destruction tactics. 

 

And thats the only language that China understands.

 

Our problem is we always try to be civil and statesman like as a nation - when that has gotten us *all and only caused headaches and losses.

 

You need to be a nastier rogue to deal with a rogue.

 

Edited February 26, 2022 by rangeelaraja

[dial_100]

On 2/25/2022 at 10:25 AM, putrevus said:

Is this situation similar Kashmir. Ukranians have told it very clearly, they want independence from Russia. Have Kashmiris been given the same opportunity to chose their own destiny. 

 

Land in India is not a halwa that India is distributing as prasad. Kashmiris just like any other Indians do get constitutional rights, right to vote and a strong democracy. If Kashmiris or for that matter any idiot wants more than that, they could walk across the border. They have everything on the other side that they can have.

[bharathh]

52 minutes ago, dial_100 said:

 

Land in India is not a halwa that India is distributing as prasad. Kashmiris just like any other Indians do get constitutional rights, right to vote and a strong democracy. If Kashmiris or for that matter any idiot wants more than that, they could walk across the border. They have everything on the other side that they can have.

Moreover the Kashmiris were actually independent in 1947. They were immediately invaded by Pak and came running to India for help. Even after that, they had special status that would have afforded them a referendum if they could convince Pak and China to gtfo their territory. They never wanted to do so or had the balls to do so. So the Kashmiris had their destiny in their hands till the 80&90s when the demographics were completely changed.

[Lone Wolf]

1 hour ago, bharathh said:

Moreover the Kashmiris were actually independent in 1947. They were immediately invaded by Pak and came running to India for help. Even after that, they had special status that would have afforded them a referendum if they could convince Pak and China to gtfo their territory. They never wanted to do so or had the balls to do so. So the Kashmiris had their destiny in their hands till the 80&90s when the demographics were completely changed.

This not totally about Kashmir...  Blind liberals don't know a Hindu majority Jammu exists as well who are Indian patriots to their core.  Sadly they don't get highlighted much as they are taken for granted. 

Other hilly towns like Rajouri Kishtwar are majority Pro India as well. 

That's already majority of J&K. 

[mishra]

Looks like war has been turned upside down. Russians are definitely worried and they are talking like Pakistanis that they will use nuclear bomb.

[Lone Wolf]

10 hours ago, mishra said:

Looks like war has been turned upside down. Russians are definitely worried and they are talking like Pakistanis that they will use nuclear bomb.

US & West is threatening to take them out of SWIFT..  That's like taking the oxygen away from Russians.  Of course they are rattled.  Implications for India as well little bit

Edited February 28, 2022 by Lone Wolf

[Clarke]

Is the west ready to push Russia hard ? What happens if Russian oil & gas is cut off from export, will they be ready to bear the prices skyrocketing ?

[rangeelaraja]

1 hour ago, Lone Wolf said:

US & West is threatening to take them out of SWIFT..  That's like taking the oxygen away from Russians.  Of course they are rattled.  Implications for India as well little bit

 

Implications for China as well.

 

Xi Pingping and his CCP minions must feel that their Taiwan dreams are up in smoke. 

 

When Russia with thousands of armored vehicles and tanks and insane amount of combat experience faces huge stumbling blocks in Ukraine...

 

What chance does China have against Taiwan with whom China has no land border. China lacks adequate amphibious assault capabilities. China is not going to use paratroopers like Russia and drop them in Taipei. Taiwan has ultra modern armed forces relative to Ukraine.

 

Also, Former Japanese PM Shinzo Abe yesterday asked US to shed it's strategic ambiguity and make a statement that it will protect Taiwan....for sure Japan will get involved if Taiwan is touched.

 

China will feel shaken by the Russian failure for sure...