Indian cricket has come along way..stats

[Kerberos]

Srilanka is very near to India.

[Rightarmfast]

3 hours ago, the don said:

Pakistan have a miles better win loss ratio . What do you mean by didnt do much ?? . They were brillianf away from home in the 90s because of the said bowlers.

India with  win loss of 27 percent have a lot of catching up to do.

Pakistan definitely did well. They feasted on NZ which were a minnow team in 90's. They won against England too and that was an achievement. They didn't quite set the world on fire. Nevertheless, I wont say they underachieved.

[sandeep]

13 minutes ago, MultiB48 said:

pak had a big advantage of wasim, waqar  etc playing in county ,so they knew how to bowl in eng conditions back then.

Pak advantage stemmed from the fact that continuing on the legacy of Imran, their top fast bowlers were able to get "seasoned" in the finishing school of county cricket, this factor is often unnoticed and uncredited.   And also from the fact that Pakistan bowlers were among the early adopters and implementors of reverse swing at a time when the skill and science was little known and understood - by batsmen and bowlers alike, in most of cricket.   Once that knowledge edge got neutralized in the late 2000s, the Pakistani "competitiveness" away from home has been defanged.   Hence the problems for the "factory of pace bowling" to generate the next generation of successful bowlers.  

[the don]

1 hour ago, Rightarmfast said:

Pakistan definitely did well. They feasted on NZ which were a minnow team in 90's. They won against England too and that was an achievement. They didn't quite set the world on fire. Nevertheless, I wont say they underachieved.

Specifically talking about the 90s .

Pakistan won 2-1 in india . Won in srilanka . Won every series in eng and newzealand . Drew in southafrica and the westindies .

They only really lost to australia away .

Dont think there was a better touring team at the time.

I have a feeling the current indian team will win in southafrica .

[Rightarmfast]

13 minutes ago, the don said:

Specifically talking about the 90s .

Pakistan won 2-1 in india . Won in srilanka . Won every series in eng and newzealand . Drew in southafrica and the westindies .

They only really lost to australia away .

Dont think there was a better touring team at the time.

I have a feeling the current indian team will win in southafrica .

Can you refresh me on that? 

[Rightarmfast]

29 minutes ago, MultiB48 said:

they pass it off as a series win every time lol,but to be fair they had a very good all round attack -pacers ,spinners, off spin,legspin ,reverse, newball ,all rounders like razzaq azhar afridi they had it all,and lots of experience in playing in different conditions ,to put things in context when srinath went to eng in 96 it was his 1st tour there ,he ran in but didnt get the results as he didnt knew how to bowl in those conditions.

That was a draw and not a series win. I remember clearly how the Pakistani cheated with Sachin's run out, Ganguly's catch ( when it had clearly bounced) to point a few.

[vvvslaxman]

India's problem is flat wickets. That is where INdia has absolutely nobody to pick wickets. Back in the 90s, 80s we would gladly take flat wickets. Australia to counter the inadequate technique of some of their own batsmen they roll out flat wickets. 

[the don]

5 hours ago, Rightarmfast said:

Can you refresh me on that? 

In 99 pakistan played 3 tests in India . Won two of those and lost 1 . 

Won in chennai and kolkata . Lost in delhi . 

The away (India) stats read 2-1 for the year ( decade ) .

Edited August 22, 2017 by the don

[express bowling]

The main point to focus on, to have a dominant team home and abroad, is developing and picking wicket-taking bowlers for different conditions.   That is the absolute key and separates the great teams from the good ones.

 

India has started focusing on  bowlers from this decade, and it has picked up from 2015.

 

We now have a fast-bowling culture in our country.   Pacers like Shami, Bumrah and Bhuvi have come up. Umesh and Ishant has improved in tests.  We have a talented fast bowling allrounder in Pandya.  The supply chain looks quite good too.  Siraj, Thampi, Avesh, Nathu, Thakur, Rajpoot, Saini, Aniket C, Nagarkoti, Khejroliya.... all look good.

 

Wrist spinner Kuldeep seems to have ability to take wickets on different wickets. Ashwin and Jaddu are great in Asia.

 

We now have the ingredients of forming an all-condition bowling attack.

 

We are on the right path. 

Edited August 22, 2017 by express bowling

[putrevus]

On 8/22/2017 at 2:00 PM, express bowling said:

The main point to focus on, to have a dominant team home and abroad, is developing and picking wicket-taking bowlers for different conditions.   That is the absolute key and separates the great teams from the good ones.

 

India has started focusing on  bowlers from this decade, and it has picked up from 2015.

 

We now have a fast-bowling culture in our country.   Pacers like Shami, Bumrah and Bhuvi have come up. Umesh and Ishant has improved in tests.  We have a talented fast bowling allrounder in Pandya.  The supply chain looks quite good too.  Siraj, Thampi, Avesh, Nathu, Thakur, Rajpoot, Saini, Aniket C, Nagarkoti, Khejroliya.... all look good.

 

Wrist spinner Kuldeep seems to have ability to take wickets on different wickets. Ashwin and Jaddu are great in Asia.

 

We now have the ingredients of forming an all-condition bowling attack.

 

We are on the right path. 

Yes are right , they are on some path.Right or wrong will be proved only after next overseas trips.The fast bowlers you mentioned are yet to be proven, Since Kapil  India always had two or more promising youngsters for every 3-5 years. From  Raju Kulkarni to RP singh. The thing is  only couple proved they can have some success in international cricket.

Edited August 24, 2017 by putrevus

[Vk1]

Paks 90s wins can be compared to muralis doosra. Unfair match changing advantage of reverse swing with extensive malpractices. And they benefited from saqlains doosra as well. 

[express bowling]

1 hour ago, putrevus said:

Yes are right , they are on some path.Right or wrong will be proved only after next overseas trips.The fast bowlers you mentioned are yet to be proven, Since Kapil  India always had two or more promising youngsters for every 3-5 years. From  Raju Kulkarni to RP singh. The thing is  only couple proved they can have some success in international cricket.

 

We have never had 4 settled pacers and a pacer-allrounder all together in our team

 

This improves the probability of our success overseas.

 

After that, it is wait and watch.

[Vk1]

Though we have absolute control over the game in terms of resources talent pool etc, we should overcome our natural disadvantage in genes. There's no Mitchell starc or Dale steyn like bowlers. No hope of seeing one in near future. 

[sandeep]

2 hours ago, Vk1 said:

Though we have absolute control over the game in terms of resources talent pool etc, we should overcome our natural disadvantage in genes. There's no Mitchell starc or Dale steyn like bowlers. No hope of seeing one in near future. 

WTF is this crap.   The reason we don't have a Starc or a Steyn is not genetic - its systemic.  And the good news is that the system is improving - hence the likes of Shami, Yadav etc and more are coming.   

[rtmohanlal]

Genuine out and out fast bowlers are required to win  overseas tests regularly .Unfortunately focus of BCCI in this departement even in these days of  much prioritised periods for fast bowling is far from upto the mark., it has to be said.Yes India lags in 'physical built' in general  when compared to those people from non subcontinental countries.But what we have is a mammoth sample size of 130 crores to choose from.To find out a basic pool of 20-25  well built  6 & half+  feet men and giving proper guidance is not at all a difficult task for the BCCI.I am not saying all such people automatically will develop into quality fast bowlers, but such 'well built' is a basic requirement  towards that step. An Agarkar or Chetan Sharma or Ishant Sharma  could only be that much how ever talented they would have been   because of the lack of the physical attributes required for a fast bowler.

 

[Vilander]

On 21/08/2017 at 3:34 AM, sourab10forever said:

CB series 2007,2007WT20,CT2013,AUS 3-0 WhiteWash,CT2017 Finals and more.....

Aparently all these were held in ENG/SA/AUS

 

All for the record AUS/ENG/SA haven't done anything in Asia in the last 10 years...at all.

Rubbish...its always fashionable and cool to say rubbish and speak gora point of view belittling Indian acheivements. How can bring something as inconsequential as facts into this. 

Edited August 24, 2017 by Vilander

[Vilander]

16 minutes ago, rtmohanlal said:

Genuine out and out fast bowlers are required to win  overseas tests regularly .Unfortunately focus of BCCI in this departement even in these days of  much prioritised periods for fast bowling is far from upto the mark., it has to be said.Yes India lags in 'physical built' in general  when compared to those people from non subcontinental countries.But what we have is a mammoth sample size of 130 crores to choose from.To find out a basic pool of 20-25  well built  6 & half+  feet men and giving proper guidance is not at all a difficult task for the BCCI.I am not saying all such people automatically will develop into quality fast bowlers, but such 'well built' is a basic requirement  towards that step. An Agarkar or Chetan Sharma or Ishant Sharma  could only be that much how ever talented they would have been   because of the lack of the physical attributes required for a fast bowler.

 

Aayallu mallukutti may be mohanlal 'lags' in 'built' but its not generally true for Indian atheletes if physical build as an attribute is what you ment there.

[express bowling]

14 hours ago, rtmohanlal said:

Genuine out and out fast bowlers are required to win  overseas tests regularly .Unfortunately focus of BCCI in this departement even in these days of  much prioritised periods for fast bowling is far from upto the mark., it has to be said.Yes India lags in 'physical built' in general  when compared to those people from non subcontinental countries.But what we have is a mammoth sample size of 130 crores to choose from.To find out a basic pool of 20-25  well built  6 & half+  feet men and giving proper guidance is not at all a difficult task for the BCCI.I am not saying all such people automatically will develop into quality fast bowlers, but such 'well built' is a basic requirement  towards that step. An Agarkar or Chetan Sharma or Ishant Sharma  could only be that much how ever talented they would have been   because of the lack of the physical attributes required for a fast bowler.

 

 

We have quite a few fast bowlers these days

 

Umesh, Shami, Aaron, Ishant and ( even Bumrah in many series this year  ) , are bowling genuinely quick in the last 4 years or more.   ( only Mitchel Starc is bowling clearly quicker than these bowlers. no-one from other countries are doing so, especially in test matches  )

 

Pandya and Bhuvi are fast-medium now.

 

Another aspect is .... all these Indian pacers are hitting the deck hard and getting bounce and seam movement .... there are no floaty medium-pacers in Team India now.   ( the type we saw in the '80s and even in the '90s apart from Srinath, Ankola etc. )

 

The pacers waiting in the wings have quite a few quick bowlers like Siraj, Thampi, Nagarkoti, Avesh, Nathu, Khejroliya etc.

 

We have a fast-bowling culture now in our country, every youngster wants to bowl fast, the established pacers are sustaining pace, there is fast-twitch muscle training, stamina training, strength training etc. taking place.

 

Things are looking up.

Edited August 25, 2017 by express bowling

[Vilander]

1 hour ago, express bowling said:

 

We have quite a few fast bowlers these days

 

Umesh, Shami, Aaron, Ishant and ( even Bumrah in many series this year  ) , are bowling genuinely quick in the last 4 years or more.   ( only Mitchel Starc is bowling clearly quicker than these bowlers. no-one from other countries are doing so, especially in test matches  )

 

Pandya and Bhuvi are fast-medium now.

 

Another aspect is .... all these Indian pacers are hitting the deck hard and getting bounce and seam movement .... there are no floaty medium-pacers in Team India now.   ( the type we saw in the '80s and even in the '90s apart from Srinath, Ankola etc. )

 

The pacers waiting in the wings have quite a few quick bowlers like Siraj, Thampi, Nagarkoti, Avesh, Nathu, Khejroliya etc.

 

We have a fast-bowling culture now in our country, every youngster wants to bowl fast, the established pacers are sustaining pace, there is fast-twitch muscle training, stamina training, strength training etc. taking place.

 

Things are looking up.

exactly, irritates me when some one casually says.

 

Indians bowl medium pace, indians have 'fitness' 'built(not build)' issues..because they dont eat goat meat etc.

 

Get into the weeds boss, check actual speeds, look at the players on the ground lol.

[rtmohanlal]

1 hour ago, express bowling said:

 

We have quite a few fast bowlers these days

 

Umesh, Shami, Aaron, Ishant and ( even Bumrah in many series this year  ) , are bowling genuinely quick in the last 4 years or more.   ( only Mitchel Starc is bowling clearly quicker than these bowlers. no-one from other countries are doing so, especially in test matches  )

 

Pandya and Bhuvi are fast-medium now.

 

Another aspect is .... all these Indian pacers are hitting the deck hard and getting bounce and seam movement .... there are no floaty medium-pacers in Team India now.   ( the type we saw in the '80s and even in the '90s apart from Srinath, Ankola etc. )

 

The pacers waiting in the wings have quite a few quick bowlers like Siraj, Thampi, Nagarkoti, Avesh, Nathu, Khejroliya etc.

 

We have a fast-bowling culture now in our country, every youngster wants to bowl fast, the established pacers are sustaining pace, there is fast-twitch muscle training, stamina training, strength training etc. taking place.

 

Things are looking up.

Agreed that the likes of Umesh, Shami, Aaron, Ishant,Bumrah,Pandya and Bhuvi  might be bowling in 140+ on the avg: thru out.But from what ever be the sample size we have got , it is clearly evident that the results are far from satisfactory.Only Shami & to some extent Bhuvi comes any where close to that bench mark. They  need not be avg:ing  under 25 just as the ATG bowlers used to do.But it has to be  atleast in the 26-30 range, i mean  all four bowlers in a playing eleven.  For that I strongly feel the physical attributes which I specified are a must to maintain that intensity thru out.Other wise a few wkt taking  deliveries would be followed by  even more  no: of boundary balls which has been the case with all these bowlers in general.

Even Javagal Sreenath & Zaheer Khan bowled consistantly in 140s thru out but ended up as mere good bowlers only.For instance Sreenath with all the talent he possessed would have been an even better bowler had he been more physically well built.What ever it be, if we need to win consistantly  abroad  such fast bowlers are a must.Any way the batsmen & spinners are ok level .Fast bowling is the problem.

 

 

Edited August 25, 2017 by rtmohanlal