Umesh Yadav has regressed under Kohli

[jusarrived]

18 minutes ago, speedheat said:

There is a massive difference between  ishant under dhoni than ishant under  kohli, under dhoni he was just a mental midget who wants to jump it from 24th floor, never allowed to grow as bowler, got massacre by Faulkner for trundling where as under kohli he has improved a lot, pace is up there of what it used to be, learnt to bowl ball that goes away from the right hander, seam position also got rectified.

Not hard to understand this if you keep dhoni the failure away from it.

Ishant has already improved under virat ? His seam position has also improved ? How can I argue with that . May be we should try dinda and vinay as well next , with virat around who knows  ?

[New guy]

39 minutes ago, jusarrived said:

Give it a break sir .hes got ishant back in the team whos supposed to be proven failure and dhoni was rediculed for backing him . This is the same freaking faaast bowling lineup we had under Dhoni . Only difference is that shami has been available for selection relatively more recently . 

 

 

Only after he proved himself in domestic. If he fails, he will be booted out again. Against Dhoni Ishant knew he just needed to walk in every match. Under Kohli Ishant knows he has to perform to compete for a place

[New guy]

9 minutes ago, Shunya said:

Its Kohli's way of giving confidence, dude. He does it to lot of people; Rahul being the worst example. I see someone coming up with some theory soon justifying that Yadav has lost pace and hence he is bad now.   

 

 

Kohli gave him enough chances. We saw glimmers of hope too. However two things happened. He is inconsistent still. BK and Ishant have improved

[speedheat]

19 minutes ago, jusarrived said:

Ishant has already improved under virat ? His seam position has also improved ? How can I argue with that . May be we should try dinda and vinay as well next , with virat around who knows  ?

Bhai sahab, dinda and Vinay TYPE are dhoni products, so far kohli has only shown us that he backs the bowlers with good pace and yes ishant has improved, massive difference between ishant of 2013 and 2017 if you can't see that I can't help you.

Edited December 2, 2017 by speedheat

[Shunya]

11 minutes ago, New guy said:

Kohli gave him enough chances. We saw glimmers of hope too. However two things happened. He is inconsistent still. BK and Ishant have improved

He was always erratic and inconsistent. He had potential so he was given a chance first by Dhoni and then by Kohli. Players learn with experience, improve by playing alongside better players, improve strategically, etc. So my point is still the same, its pointless to blame Kohli or Dhoni for his downfall. Dhoni gave him plenty of chances as well just like Kohli did. 

[Shunya]

24 minutes ago, speedheat said:

Bhai sahab, dinda and Vinay TYPE are dhoni products, so far kohli has only shown us that he backs the bowlers with good pace and yes ishant has improved, massive difference between ishant of 2013 and 2017 if you can't see that I can't help you.

Ishant Sharma was at his best in 2014 which was under Dhoni. Infact he was dropped later and rightly as he was being outperformed. I also cannot see what is different now or its just usual "Dhoni hai hai" post.

Though I agree Ishant and Yadav are pretty similar in terms of consistency, have no problem in one being picked over the other. They both can fulfill 3rd pacer's role. 

[New guy]

5 minutes ago, Shunya said:

Ishant Sharma was at his best in 2014 which was under Dhoni. Infact he was dropped later and rightly as he was being outperformed. I also cannot see what is different now or its just usual "Dhoni hai hai" post.

Though I agree Ishant and Yadav are pretty similar in terms of consistency, have no problem in one being picked over the other. They both can fulfill 3rd pacer's role. 

Dhoni stunted both Yadav and Ishant by spoon feeding them about how and where to bowl. The damage he did might be too late to undo even by Kohli though he tried. Kohli lets the bowlers bowl to their own strength. But yeah, we should try our chances with younger bowlers than go back to these

[chewy]

To be fair, Ishant outbowled Yadav in last match, and Ishant has been brilliant in Ranji this season too

[Shunya]

12 minutes ago, New guy said:

Dhoni stunted both Yadav and Ishant by spoon feeding them about how and where to bowl. The damage he did might be too late to undo even by Kohli though he tried. Kohli lets the bowlers bowl to their own strength. But yeah, we should try our chances with younger bowlers than go back to these

Lol. Sorry that is just your opinion. People interpret different things based on their likes and dislikes. Fair enough. I would also like to believe that everyone in the current team are performing like stars because they were given confidence and motivated under Dhoni and other seniors including Kohli. I also feel Dhoni would have spoonfed Virat and made him aware of chasing and finishing games in ODIs. 

[Austin 3:!6]

Dhoni stunted both Yadav and Ishant by spoon feeding them about how and where to bowl. The damage he did might be too late to undo even by Kohli though he tried. Kohli lets the bowlers bowl to their own strength. But yeah, we should try our chances with younger bowlers than go back to these

Eh what? Were you present when Dhoni was feeding them with that spoon? Kuch bhi likhega kya?

Dhoni never interfered much with fast bowlers. Up until Zak was there he used to guide bowlers and post Zak fast bowlers got complete freedom.

The point is Ishant and Umesh are rubbish. Dhoni nor Kohli can do anything. The only difference is under Dhoni there were more overseas tours, hence poor performances were aparent. Under Kohli, all poor stuffs are shielded by spinners at home. From SA tour, it will all change though and those poor performances will get more aparent.

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[Old guy]

3 hours ago, rkt.india said:

Shami and Ishant are also phaast

Lately faster than Umesh 

[New guy]

47 minutes ago, Austin 3:!6 said:

 

Eh what? Were you present when Dhoni was feeding them with that spoon? Kuch bhi likhega kya?

Dhoni never interfered much with fast bowlers. Up until Zak was there he used to guide bowlers and post Zak fast bowlers got complete freedom.

The point is Ishant and Umesh are rubbish. Dhoni nor Kohli can do anything. The only difference is under Dhoni there were more overseas tours, hence poor performances were aparent. Under Kohli, all poor stuffs are shielded by spinners at home. From SA tour, it will all change though and those poor performances will get more aparent.

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Yes, till Zak was there. But later he would set fields and ask bowlers to bowl 6 balls exactly where he wanted. Where you sleeping through all the tests when that happened? He set fields only on off or leg. Asked bowlers to bowl same 6 deliveries. I am sure it is very convenient to forget all that or how he publicly started blaming his bowlers when they bowled even one ball differently

[New guy]

1 hour ago, Shunya said:

Lol. Sorry that is just your opinion. People interpret different things based on their likes and dislikes. Fair enough. I would also like to believe that everyone in the current team are performing like stars because they were given confidence and motivated under Dhoni and other seniors including Kohli. I also feel Dhoni would have spoonfed Virat and made him aware of chasing and finishing games in ODIs. 

Dhoni setting fields and asking bowlers to bowl six balls the same place is on record actually, not an opinion. As is his publicly slagging his fast bowlers. As is his making BK only bowl 6-7 overs in LOIs and claiming he is not a death bowler. He spoonfed all our bowlers and used them as limited options around spin bowlers

Edited December 2, 2017 by New guy

[Austin 3:!6]

Dhoni setting fields and asking bowlers to bowl six balls the same place is on record actually, not an opinion. As is his publicly slagging his fast bowlers. As is his making BK only bowl 6-7 overs in LOIs and claiming he is not a death bowler. He spoonfed all our bowlers and used them as limited options around spin bowlers

Show us the record then when Dhoni asked their bowlers to bowl 6 balls on same area

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[speedheat]

56 minutes ago, Austin 3:!6 said:

 

Eh what? Were you present when Dhoni was feeding them with that spoon? Kuch bhi likhega kya?

[Shunya]

40 minutes ago, New guy said:

Dhoni setting fields and asking bowlers to bowl six balls the same place is on record actually, not an opinion. As is his publicly slagging his fast bowlers. As is his making BK only bowl 6-7 overs in LOIs and claiming he is not a death bowler. He spoonfed all our bowlers and used them as limited options around spin bowlers

Disagree with your opinions/interpretation. Lets move on and discuss about what Kohli is doing. Is it good of dropping/benching players on and off- bowlers, batsmen, everyone. Does it affect player's confidence or not since it is Kohli now?

[speedheat]

2 hours ago, Shunya said:

Ishant Sharma was at his best in 2014 which was under Dhoni. Infact he was dropped later and rightly as he was being outperformed. I also cannot see what is different now or its just usual "Dhoni hai hai" post.

Though I agree Ishant and Yadav are pretty similar in terms of consistency, have no problem in one being picked over the other. They both can fulfill 3rd pacer's role. 

Just a one good spell in 2014 in almost 10years of captaincy under the great captain dhoni, waaah!!! Ishnt was meek and toothless from 2010- 2013, one could easily sort out the difference in his bowling in last two years, but no ignore it, goof for you.

[mancalledsting]

1 hour ago, Shunya said:

Lol. Sorry that is just your opinion. People interpret different things based on their likes and dislikes. Fair enough. I would also like to believe that everyone in the current team are performing like stars because they were given confidence and motivated under Dhoni and other seniors including Kohli. I also feel Dhoni would have spoonfed Virat and made him aware of chasing and finishing games in ODIs. 

Dhoni did 'over captain the quicks'. Before Zak retired, he was the actual captain of the fast bowling attack and hence dhoni's initial record in tests was respectable. Once Zak got injured at Lords 2011, you see a steep drop in dhoni's test record as captain as that is when his stupid methods of captaincy took over...a few examples 

 

1. Placing fielders purely for a loose ball- as a captain he didn't even have confidence in his bowlers to not bowl loose balls 

 

2. Picking RP Singh for Oval 2011, Vinay Kumar for Perth 2011- these were gem selections 

 

3. In 2015- "fast bowlers need to use their brains more". 

 

4. not to mention humiliating sreesanth in South Africa- he was never the same bowler again 

 

It's not possible to spoon feed virat as there's no guarantee Dhoni would be batting with him during his hundreds. If IIRC, Kohli's first hundred came under captaincy of gambhir!!

 

How is it possible to claim the team is where it is today because of confidence built by Dhoni? Is it because of 4-0, 3-1 losses in England or because of 4-0 loss in Australia or because of 3-0 loss in NZ. Maybe confidence came from losing to England at home for first time in 30 years?

 

Dhoni did give confidence to the fast bowlers- the opposition fast bowlers through his horrible batting technique and by continuously backing Raina through the Srni mama axis. 

[Shunya]

12 minutes ago, mancalledsting said:

Dhoni did 'over captain the quicks'. Before Zak retired, he was the actual captain of the fast bowling attack and hence dhoni's initial record in tests was respectable. Once Zak got injured at Lords 2011, you see a steep drop in dhoni's test record as captain as that is when his stupid methods of captaincy took over...a few examples 

 

1. Placing fielders purely for a loose ball- as a captain he didn't even have confidence in his bowlers to not bowl loose balls 

 

2. Picking RP Singh for Oval 2011, Vinay Kumar for Perth 2011- these were gem selections 

 

3. In 2015- "fast bowlers need to use their brains more". 

 

4. not to mention humiliating sreesanth in South Africa- he was never the same bowler again 

 

It's not possible to spoon feed virat as there's no guarantee Dhoni would be batting with him during his hundreds. If IIRC, Kohli's first hundred came under captaincy of gambhir!!

 

How is it possible to claim the team is where it is today because of confidence built by Dhoni? Is it because of 4-0, 3-1 losses in England or because of 4-0 loss in Australia or because of 3-0 loss in NZ. Maybe confidence came from losing to England at home for first time in 30 years?

 

Dhoni did give confidence to the fast bowlers- the opposition fast bowlers through his horrible batting technique and by continuously backing Raina through the Srni mama axis. 

Same old argument about everything bad happened because of Dhoni, but if something good happened its because of others. Just like you blame Dhoni for not giving confidence to players, he should get the credit for developing careers of everyone in this current team including Kohli. Lets disagree and move on to the topic of Virat Kohli and his backing.

 

Is benching/dropping someone considered giving confidence? Does never giving a chance to new upcoming bowlers/batsman in playing XI considered giving confidence? Yadav with so much potential and fiery pace is being dropped from every format. How should Kohli give him confidence and turn it around?

[mancalledsting]

31 minutes ago, Shunya said:

Same old argument about everything bad happened because of Dhoni, but if something good happened its because of others. Just like you blame Dhoni for not giving confidence to players, he should get the credit for developing careers of everyone in this current team including Kohli. Lets disagree and move on to the topic of Virat Kohli and his backing.

 

Is benching/dropping someone considered giving confidence? Does never giving a chance to new upcoming bowlers/batsman in playing XI considered giving confidence? Yadav with so much potential and fiery pace is being dropped from every format. How should Kohli give him confidence and turn it around?

Some times you bring the best out of players by making competition for places. If your spot is guaranteed irrespective of performance, why bother to train and excel. Kohli is trying to bring meritocracy to Indian cricket, and does not ask anything of his players that he is not happy to do himself. 

 

Its not the same old argument....credit to Dhoni IN ODIs for influencing Indian batsmen to be more attacking/dynamic than previous generations, for showing that wk/batsmen is viable career option indian cricket (because of his inspiration we have many better wk/batsmen than Dhoni), for improving our chasing in ODIs/r record/calmness in big tournaments. But Indian test cricket was sent back to the 1930s under Dhoni and he doesn't realise that his selfishness has tarnished what could have been a good legacy. People will continue to curse him post retirement for the damage he caused- I hope he enjoys those extra dollars because he sacrificed his izid for it