putrevus Posted December 19, 2017 Share Posted December 19, 2017 16 minutes ago, rkt.india said: Cummins, Starc, Hazlewood were mostly bowling in 138-144 k range too. He did the same too. You must be joking if you are seriously equating Avg Saini's speed to those three.Hazelood was slower last year but he too has added that extra speed this season.What about bounce and length. Can Saini get the pace of Woakes and Woakes is taller, Saini to be looks more a floater than hit the deck bowler which is natural for a shorter bowler. Link to comment
rkt.india Posted December 19, 2017 Share Posted December 19, 2017 5 minutes ago, putrevus said: You must be joking if you are seriously equating Avg Saini's speed to those three.Hazelood was slower last year but he too has added that extra speed this season.What about bounce and length. Can Saini get the pace of Woakes and Woakes is taller, Saini to be looks more a floater than hit the deck bowler which is natural for a shorter bowler. Saini is not short. he is 6' 1" so is Woakes. I have watched Woakes and he was barely crossing 135K and it is the average pace that matters more than the one off quickest delivery and then consistent along with that. Apart from Starc, no one has an average pace more than 85-86 mph. The best thing about Saini is the back spin he impart on the ball. One poster mentioned his wobbly seam and I observed it today and it was back spin that was making the ball wobble in the air which helped him get that zip of the pitch. It might wobbly but he was still hitting the seam and getting movement off the seam. No one is saying Saini can match Starc or Hazlewood but until we give them chance, we wont know. I was the biggest supporter of Umesh here, but I have no hope from him anymore. He still has the tendency to bowl like a complete rookie even in Ranji trophy games. Link to comment
Pollack Posted December 19, 2017 Share Posted December 19, 2017 2 hours ago, Mosher said: Kudos to Gambhir for supporting Saini and bringing him into the Delhi team when everyone was against his inclusion. Have to say Gambhir has a keen eye for spotting talent. Gambhir is a champ ignoring his antics and anger issues. Laaloo and Mosher 2 Link to comment
Suhaan Posted December 19, 2017 Share Posted December 19, 2017 1 hour ago, putrevus said: If I was a selector , I am picking Yadav for SA tour for sure. I don't think selection for SA in my view is wrong.Just saw highlights of Saini and I will still pick Yadav. if the ball does not swing what will Saini do what are his other weapons, I don't think he has more pace than Yadav. Is it SG ball they are using or Kookaburra. If Saini whose odd ball touched 144 is genuine pace what is pace of Cummins, Starc and Hazelwood called. Cummins,Hazelwood bowl with pace but they are by no means genuine express infact Ishant and Yadav out bowled them in pace in recent Ind Aus test series in Ind.Saini is young he has pace and can become a good fast bowling spearhead in test which Ind has been craving for long.I repeat he reminds me of Dale Steyn ,same skidiness ....who knows what a gem he can be or what an element he can be of a pack which has good quality genuine pace which I see Ind is going to have in foreseeable future if and only if selectors do their job Mosher and express bowling 1 1 Link to comment
rkt.india Posted December 19, 2017 Share Posted December 19, 2017 1 hour ago, putrevus said: If I was a selector , I am picking Yadav for SA tour for sure. I don't think selection for SA in my view is wrong.Just saw highlights of Saini and I will still pick Yadav. if the ball does not swing what will Saini do what are his other weapons, I don't think he has more pace than Yadav. Is it SG ball they are using or Kookaburra. If Saini whose odd ball touched 144 is genuine pace what is pace of Cummins, Starc and Hazelwood called. also, even if we consider difference in pace. suppose Saini bowls 140, Yadav 145. I will take a more accurate 140 bowler over an inconsistent 145 bowler. Link to comment
putrevus Posted December 19, 2017 Share Posted December 19, 2017 2 minutes ago, rkt.india said: Saini is not short. he is 6' 1" so is Woakes. I have watched Woakes and he was barely crossing 135K and it is the average pace that matters more than the one off quickest delivery and then consistent along with that. Apart from Starc, no one has an average pace more than 85-86 mph. The best thing about Saini is the back spin he impart on the ball. One poster mentioned his wobbly seam and I observed it today and it was back spin that was making the ball wobble in the air which helped him get that zip of the pitch. It might wobbly but he was still hitting the seam and getting movement off the seam. No one is saying Saini can match Starc or Hazlewood but until we give them chance, we wont know. I was the biggest supporter of Umesh here, but I have no hope from him anymore. He still has the tendency to bowl like a complete rookie even in Ranji trophy games. I don't know what you have watched. The graph I posted has highest speed and also avg speed. All the Australian bowlers are 86 and above avg speeds.Woakes is just below 86 avg speed. Umesh was excellent last year on docile pitches and I don't think he needs to get raw deal of not playing in pitches suited for him. My point is Saini is not someone for which you discard guy like Yadav. Link to comment
Vilander Posted December 19, 2017 Share Posted December 19, 2017 On 12/17/2017 at 8:02 AM, fineleg said: Should go on SA-tour as nets bowler - but won't be able to, due to Ranji Assignment. (Ankit Rajpoot going instead). Cricinfo shows "Right arm Medium" - thats usually lesser than the 136-144 mentioned in this thread? Just curious - are there any Rt/left Fast Medium or Rt/left Fast - in Indian domestic cricket? you should stop looking at cricinfo classifications or cricinfo althogether, i dont except for stats guru. They will list every Indian bowler as medium. even Umesh and Shami are fast medium lol.even after them clocking 148 in test matches in day 4-5. express bowling 1 Link to comment
rkt.india Posted December 19, 2017 Share Posted December 19, 2017 17 minutes ago, putrevus said: I don't know what you have watched. The graph I posted has highest speed and also avg speed. All the Australian bowlers are 86 and above avg speeds.Woakes is just below 86 avg speed. Umesh was excellent last year on docile pitches and I don't think he needs to get raw deal of not playing in pitches suited for him. My point is Saini is not someone for which you discard guy like Yadav. Yes, Saini is someone for who we can certainly discard Yadav and i am talking about him for last 2-3 years, not just after today's game. Regarding those speeds. those top speeds are more like errors and not actual speeds. Woakes 92 mph, is this a joke. I watched games and i dont need to watch the graphs. He was struggling to cross 135-136 let alone hitting 92 mph. Accoding to me, his average pace of what i watched was 83 mph at best. Hazelwood and Cummins bowled at an average speed of 86 mph. I dont think even Starc bowled consistently over 145. England bowlers were around 132-138 most of the times. Aussies were around 138-144. Link to comment
putrevus Posted December 19, 2017 Share Posted December 19, 2017 1 minute ago, rkt.india said: Yes, Saini is someone for who we can certainly discard Yadav and i am talking about him for last 2-3 years, not just after today's game. Regarding those speeds. those top speeds are more like errors and not actual speeds. Woakes 92 mph, is this a joke. I watched games and i dont need to watch the graphs. He was struggling to cross 135-136 let alone hitting 92 mph. Accoding to me, his average pace of what i watched was 83 mph at best. Hazelwood and Cummins bowled at an average speed of 86 mph. I dont think even Starc bowled consistently over 145. England bowlers were around 132-138 most of the times. Aussies were around 138-144. These speeds I didn't make it up, these are posted on BBC .What you watched I have no idea but Woakes is faster than Saini too and last year before his injury Woakes was pretty fast high 80s to early 90s. For me if I have vote I would still vote for Yadav at least for SA. Link to comment
rkt.india Posted December 19, 2017 Share Posted December 19, 2017 26 minutes ago, putrevus said: These speeds I didn't make it up, these are posted on BBC .What you watched I have no idea but Woakes is faster than Saini too and last year before his injury Woakes was pretty fast high 80s to early 90s. For me if I have vote I would still vote for Yadav at least for SA. Yes, Woakes was faster last year, but not now. he was effective too when he was fast but is ineffective now. to be honest, Saini looked quicker than the speed guns showed. These speed in domestic not always give the most accurate readings. Siraj was who was bowling in high 130s in Ranji trophy last year was clocked 140-145K in IPL. Link to comment
Vijy Posted December 19, 2017 Share Posted December 19, 2017 29 minutes ago, putrevus said: These speeds I didn't make it up, these are posted on BBC .What you watched I have no idea but Woakes is faster than Saini too and last year before his injury Woakes was pretty fast high 80s to early 90s. For me if I have vote I would still vote for Yadav at least for SA. woakes was definitely faster last yr. Link to comment
putrevus Posted December 19, 2017 Share Posted December 19, 2017 1 minute ago, rkt.india said: Yes, Woakes was faster last year, but not now. he was effective too when he was fast but is ineffective now. to be honest, Saini looked quicker than the speed guns showed. These speed in domestic not always give the most accurate readings. Siraj was who was bowling in high 130s in Ranji trophy last year was clocked 140-145K in IPL. Siraj looked he was trundling in t20s may be because it was his debut but he was no where bowling express. Link to comment
AnkurUpadhyay Posted December 19, 2017 Share Posted December 19, 2017 27 minutes ago, putrevus said: These speeds I didn't make it up, these are posted on BBC .What you watched I have no idea but Woakes is faster than Saini too and last year before his injury Woakes was pretty fast high 80s to early 90s. For me if I have vote I would still vote for Yadav at least for SA. Australian speed guns are always 3-4 kph quicker than average. Starc and Cummins are definitely quicker than Saini but certainly not Woakes or any other English bowler for that matter. Saini is more or less in the Hazelwood range. Don't forget every Indian bowler be it Ishant or Umesh has clocked their highest speeds in Australia. express bowling and Mosher 1 1 Link to comment
express bowling Posted December 19, 2017 Author Share Posted December 19, 2017 (edited) 1 hour ago, putrevus said: You must be joking if you are seriously equating Avg Saini's speed to those three.Hazelood was slower last year but he too has added that extra speed this season.What about bounce and length. Can Saini get the pace of Woakes and Woakes is taller, Saini to be looks more a floater than hit the deck bowler which is natural for a shorter bowler. Simon Doull was explaining speed readings. Three speed-guns are used to measure the speed of every delivery in international matches. The speed readings vary quite a bit at times for the same delivery . Most countries use the middle reading. Australia uses the highest reading ( which is why pacers like Ishant and Siddle bowled 152 k in Australia ). These speeds shown above are the highest-of-3-speeds too. The same English pacers were bowling slower than Indian pacers in India. Australians were just as quick as our pacers barring Starc. As of today Saini will perhaps bowl a bit quicker than Woakes if bowling in the same match .... and both are similar height. Edited December 19, 2017 by express bowling Mosher and Rightarmfast 2 Link to comment
Vk1 Posted December 19, 2017 Share Posted December 19, 2017 He seems to hàve outbowled Shami and that is a huge thing. But on naked eye..saw his wickets reel.. he doesn't seem that fast to me. Link to comment
express bowling Posted December 19, 2017 Author Share Posted December 19, 2017 43 minutes ago, rkt.india said: Regarding those speeds. those top speeds are more like errors and not actual speeds. Woakes 92 mph, is this a joke. I watched games and i dont need to watch the graphs. He was struggling to cross 135-136 let alone hitting 92 mph. Accoding to me, his average pace of what i watched was 83 mph at best. Hazelwood and Cummins bowled at an average speed of 86 mph. I dont think even Starc bowled consistently over 145. England bowlers were around 132-138 most of the times. Aussies were around 138-144. My observations are very similar Link to comment
Vk1 Posted December 19, 2017 Share Posted December 19, 2017 16 minutes ago, express bowling said: Simon Doull was explaining speed readings. Three speed-guns are used to measure the speed of every delivery in international matches. The speed readings vary quite a bit at times for the same delivery . Most countries use the middle reading. Australia uses the highest reading ( which is why pacers like Ishant and Siddle bowled 152 k in Australia ). These speeds shown above are the highest-of-3-speeds too. The same English pacers were bowling slower than Indian pacers in India. Australians were just as quick as our pacers barring Starc. As of today Saini will perhaps bowl a bit quicker than Woakes if bowling in the same match .... and both are similar height. 16 minutes ago, express bowling said: What gun does south Africa use. Link to comment
express bowling Posted December 19, 2017 Author Share Posted December 19, 2017 1 hour ago, Suhaan said: Cummins,Hazelwood bowl with pace but they are by no means genuine express infact Ishant and Yadav out bowled them in pace in recent Ind Aus test series in Ind. Exactly Infact, Hazlewood often bowls 130 k to 140 k when not in Australia. Rightarmfast 1 Link to comment
Vk1 Posted December 19, 2017 Share Posted December 19, 2017 What happened there. Browser issue I think. Link to comment
express bowling Posted December 19, 2017 Author Share Posted December 19, 2017 Just now, Vk1 said: What gun does south Africa use. I would assume it is the middle-reading. Link to comment
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