Better captain: Ganguly or Dhoni?

[Ankit_sharma03]

6 minutes ago, Trichromatic said:

Dravid in his shorter captaincy stint won more series than Ganguly. He won 10 out of 25, 4 drawn. So lost less than 50%. 

 

So, to recap -

1. Captain with lowest win loss ratio

2. Captain with worst series win % (~35%)

3. Captain is absolute absymal final record (1 out 14)

 

was somehow better for some mysterious flimsy reasons like converting them to fighters etc.

 

There are nothing back up how Ganguly was better except those opinions. No actual performances. 

Under dravid we became a better chasing side, the guy deserves credit for making yuvi n dhoni better odi players . HE actually got few players in team which he doesnt get credit as we give to ganguly. 

Edited January 3, 2018 by Ankit_sharma03

[mancalledsting]

1 minute ago, mishra said:

Agree, IMO Gambhirs batting contribution more , but it was  MSDs confident decision to promote himself and then carry it through to bring it home. His decision could have so easily backfired and think of fixing, media and expert comments. Guy waged his reputatuion there.

his reputation was already on the wane at that point as he had done nothing in the World Cup until then. Dhoni went out with a nothing to lose mentality knowing that dew was setting in and UV/Raina in the shed. 

[mishra]

11 minutes ago, Trichromatic said:

How do you explain Azhar's numbers then?

Sharjah

[Laaloo]

11 minutes ago, mancalledsting said:

ok if you were referring to captaincy only, I take your point. Please remember that Kohli has only just took over ODI captaincy and is still in his infancy. 

Yup and that's why you can't judge Kohlis odi captaincy until dhoni is completely out of the picture. 

[adi B]

5 hours ago, Trichromatic said:

How come there aren't facts supporting him and only theories in support of how it was better. It was not that we were facing Aus in all matches and all finals.

 

How come team lost 4-3 to WI at home and then 5-2 in NZ? Ganguly had better resources at his disposal. Did we have better finishers than Dhoni and Yuvi? Did we have better openers than SRT and Sehwag earlier? Still we lost 4-2 to Pakistan at home in 2005. We were leading 2-0 in that series and then lost 4 consecutive matches. No other Indian captain would have lost 4 consecutive matches to that team.

Ganguly wasn't the captain  in the last 2 games in the 2005 pak odi series,he was banned and that was the time when ganguly was out of form and didn't deserve to be in the team or be the captain so he was rightfully booted.

But when we see from where he took the team which was in shambles in 2000 (got smashed down under ) and how well we performed in big events in between 2000-2003 and how he got young players in ,he deserves some credit for that.

We lost those big finals and some of those winnable series because yuvi was too raw and not in peak as a finisher and we didn't have a dhoni or raina to see off some of those chases (especially against nzl in 2003 odis and England in that 3-3 draw series in 2001).

[Shunya]

12 minutes ago, Ankit_sharma03 said:

Under dravid we became a better chasing side, the guy deserves credit for making yuvi n dhoni better odi players . HE actually got few players in team which he doesnt get credit as we give to ganguly. 

True Dravid was very good as a captain. Very underrated because of his personality. He gets the flak mostly because of 2007 WC. Apart from that he has done lot of good for our team, more than Ganguly. 

[mishra]

Please do not bring Azhar in discussion and belittle everyone

[rkt.india]

45 minutes ago, Trichromatic said:

@speedheat @Gollum @Ankit_sharma03

 

Series records for Indian team

Under Azhar

Series played: 43

Series won: 20

Drawn: 3

Lost: 20

 

Uder Ganguly

Series played: 32

Series won: 8

Shared: 2

 

10 out 32 

 

Under Dhoni:

Series played: 43

Won : 24

Lost 19

azhar's record is very good despite phiksing and SRT was at his best in ODIs during his tenure. 

[adi B]

1 hour ago, Trichromatic said:

Out of 9 series played at home India won only 3 under Ganguly and yes there is a guarantee that we would have won WC.

 

3-1 against piss poor ODI team of England, ended up with drawn series 3-3

4-3 against WI at home

2-0 against Pakistan and ended up losing 4-2

 

2 wins against Zimbabwe and 1 against SA in his first series.

You didn't understand what new guy said.he said that with the 2011 wc team even ganguly would have won the cup 

[mancalledsting]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O6KrZNEjP8w

 

0:13 "Defending Dhoni, I don't know if this amounts to supporting the BCCI"

 

2:10 "The line was cross a long time ago and its about time that things start coming out into the open....things have gone on too far, something has to be done about it...you have the president of the board who is also an IPL franchise owner, the matter comes straight down to a player who's the captain of the Indian cricket team and also the captain of his franchise. The marketing value of the franchise depends largely upon this player is that he is the start player of this franchise. You have now reached a situation where if he (MSD) is no longer in the team, the brand that Srinivasan owns will get affected. What hat was he (Sri mama) wearing? Was he speaking to them as a BCCI president..one person should not be in a position where he can wear these two hats"

 

4:20 "Why should a person be in a situation where such a conflict is arising in the first place, why should one person have the power to not only control the branding of his franchise but also control the market that is deciding the brand value"

 

6:00 "What is more unfortunate is that you have a captain who lost 8 tests and was allowed to continue, has now lost 10 tests and is still being allowed to continue, there is no accountability on that person"

 

6:20 "I have never been a great fan of MS Dhoni, he's been extremely lucky to be leading this side even today, luck must stop somewhere" Bishan Bedi

 

7:03 "Should a person be captain on luck? And if you're not lucky to have a Godfather, you can't be captain?"

 

9:37 "We are questioning today whether the BCCI has turned into a bunch of Godfathers for certain cricketers and whether any motives in being Godfathers"

 

11:20 "are you really in this young nation, advocating failure? Consistently failing for 24 months and nobody's got axed. What are we telling youngsters in this nation? Keep failing nothing matters, business continues as usual"

 

13:22 "we as proud Indians have an issue, we have history with England, they've ruled us as a nation and today they are beating the crap out of us in our own country"

 

13:40 "the point is not whether the BCCI president intervened, the point is that the owner of CSK intervened, because it is the same person who is holding both the posts...this situation should never arise where the board president and franchise owner are the same"

 

14:15 "1998 Sachin Tendulkar sacked, 1999 Azhuruddin sacked, 2005 Ganguly sacked...why is Dhoni being treated with kid gloves"

 

 

[Laaloo]

TINA factor has ruined Indian Cricket this decade.

 

[Shunya]

Also credit to Dhoni for grooming and building fighters like Kohli, Rohit, Ashwin, Jaddu, Bhuvi, Dhawan and other current players. Real visionary

[mancalledsting]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NQkSMXGy8T0

 

00:00 "in the last BCCI meeting, the only amendment that took place was that the president of the BCCI can continue for 3 extra years, what does it indicate? That the centre of power must rest with one person, which in my mind is terribly derogatory for the progress of the nation...someone who is so omnipotent is bad news for Indian sport.... we cannot honestly take this kind of nonsense in the BCCI"  Bishan Bedi

 

5:35 "everybody is shying from the very basic issue, the influence of money... the silence maintained by everyone, doesn't that appear to be equally suspicious"

 

9:40 "look at the economic situation of dhoni...he being the captain, if he's worth 10 million dollars without captaincy he's worth 50 million with captaincy, so he's got business to protect and he's in a position of power"

 

11:40 "Dhoni has to go" Bishan Bedi

 

17:50 "Dhoni is so lucky, after having lost so many test matches he is still the bloomin captain, even Tiger Pataudi couldn't manage that, Sunil Gavaskar couldn't manage that"

 

[Ankit_sharma03]

25 minutes ago, mancalledsting said:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O6KrZNEjP8w

 

0:13 "Defending Dhoni, I don't know if this amounts to supporting the BCCI"

 

2:10 "The line was cross a long time ago and its about time that things start coming out into the open....things have gone on too far, something has to be done about it...you have the president of the board who is also an IPL franchise owner, the matter comes straight down to a player who's the captain of the Indian cricket team and also the captain of his franchise. The marketing value of the franchise depends largely upon this player is that he is the start player of this franchise. You have now reached a situation where if he (MSD) is no longer in the team, the brand that Srinivasan owns will get affected. What hat was he (Sri mama) wearing? Was he speaking to them as a BCCI president..one person should not be in a position where he can wear these two hats"

 

4:20 "Why should a person be in a situation where such a conflict is arising in the first place, why should one person have the power to not only control the branding of his franchise but also control the market that is deciding the brand value"

 

6:00 "What is more unfortunate is that you have a captain who lost 8 tests and was allowed to continue, has now lost 10 tests and is still being allowed to continue, there is no accountability on that person"

 

6:20 "I have never been a great fan of MS Dhoni, he's been extremely lucky to be leading this side even today, luck must stop somewhere" Bishan Bedi

 

7:03 "Should a person be captain on luck? And if you're not lucky to have a Godfather, you can't be captain?"

 

9:37 "We are questioning today whether the BCCI has turned into a bunch of Godfathers for certain cricketers and whether any motives in being Godfathers"

 

11:20 "are you really in this young nation, advocating failure? Consistently failing for 24 months and nobody's got axed. What are we telling youngsters in this nation? Keep failing nothing matters, business continues as usual"

 

13:22 "we as proud Indians have an issue, we have history with England, they've ruled us as a nation and today they are beating the crap out of us in our own country"

 

13:40 "the point is not whether the BCCI president intervened, the point is that the owner of CSK intervened, because it is the same person who is holding both the posts...this situation should never arise where the board president and franchise owner are the same"

 

14:15 "1998 Sachin Tendulkar sacked, 1999 Azhuruddin sacked, 2005 Ganguly sacked...why is Dhoni being treated with kid gloves"

 

 

BTW Jimmy amarnath was the guy who wanted to drop Kohli after his faliure in 1st 2 test in Aus in 2014 when dhoni n sehwag fought for him .....

He wanted to make kohli captain in ODi back then , and well we won CT 2013 after that .

 

I dnt knw why someone doesnt ask him those question " sir kohli ko agar nikal diya hota tab to ab wo kohli hota "

[mancalledsting]

6 minutes ago, Shunya said:

Also credit to Dhoni for grooming and building fighters like Kohli, Rohit, Ashwin, Jaddu, Bhuvi, Dhawan and other current players. Real visionary

Rohit has underperformed as per his potential- should have been a world great on the test level, Bhuvi was a trundler under Dhoni- has been rejuvenated under Kohli

[Ankit_sharma03]

2 minutes ago, mancalledsting said:

Rohit has underperformed as per his potential- should have been a world great on the test level, Bhuvi was a trundler under Dhoni- has been rejuvenated under Kohli

Rohit underperformed due to dhoni- even @maniac wudnt agree on that 

[mancalledsting]

https://www.sportskeeda.com/cricket/ms-dhoni-not-innovative-proactive-test-captain-michael-holding

 

"MS Dhoni not innovative and proactive enough to lead a Test side" Michael Holding 

 

"captaining in ODIs it is not too difficult. Therefore, India can do well under him (MSD) at the World Cup” Michael Holding 

 

[mancalledsting]

2 minutes ago, Ankit_sharma03 said:

Rohit underperformed due to dhoni- even @maniac wudnt agree on that 

when he was young, Rohit was gun, needed early blooding into test side. Instead India went with Suresh Raina and Rohit continue being t20 specialist and his crucial development years were ruined. 

[Trichromatic]

It's pretty simple.

 

Try answering these questions and you will understand.

 

What did Ganguly achieve in his ODI career which any other decent Indian captain couldn't have achieved?

 

1. More than 1 final victory - easily.

2. Better than 30% series win - most likely

3. Home wins not just against Zimbabwe - could have fluked 1 series for sure

4. Better win loss ratio - year considering that it was lowest among all good captains, there was no going down.

 

Think of same question for Dhoni

1. More than 60% series wins - can't say for sure. One has to be very good to increase that.

2. World cup - we already know the answer.

3. 7 finals - some very good captains could do that, not every decent captain.

[Laaloo]

6 minutes ago, mancalledsting said:

Rohit has underperformed as per his potential- should have been a world great on the test level, Bhuvi was a trundler under Dhoni- has been rejuvenated under Kohli

And jadeja after giving him a million chances. Jadeja was never selected as a bowler. He's a hack in ODIs. He's a hack in tests. It's his test bowling that has been a revelation. In other aspects, the ROI has been too low for so many chances bestowed upon him.