Rank Indian prime ministers

[zen]

 

^ a nice interview 

 

[Singh bling]

13 minutes ago, Gollum said:

She allowed 10 million refugees into India, majority being Hindus. Today we can't allow 100 Rohingya Hindus from Cox's Bazar, Pak Hindus are turned away cruelly because they can't pay electricity bill......she allowed 10 million !!!! There is a reason Muslim population in the 1971-1981 period in WB grew very slowly despite huge difference in TFR between Hindus and Muslims there. Plus many Hindus were resettled in Central India. She has done more for overseas Hindus than any other PM, even the likes of Vajpayee and Modi who can only talk big but do little.

So after winning war all she did was Hindu's resettled in central India?Why didn't she arm twisted BD  to resettle Hindu's in BD with their property returned .

Lets be honest the biggest winner of BD war was BD muslims.Indians and hindu's got nothing apart from some bragging rights

[zen]

Indira on long term thinking. Explaining it through how trees are planted by one generation to benefit the next .... what has gone wrong with Ind is the failure to be accountable and responsibility by the general population in India .... for e.g. if we do not litter, our streets would be relatively cleaner 

 

 

[Stradlater]

4 minutes ago, Singh bling said:

So after winning war all she did was Hindu's resettled in central India?Why didn't she arm twisted BD  to resettle Hindu's in BD with their property returned .

Lets be honest the biggest winner of BD war was BD muslims.Indians and hindu's got nothing apart from some bragging rights

Got to agree with Singh Bling here @Gollum. Think we botched up things there.

We could have gained so much and yet wasted the opportunity. It was a diplomatic failure for India.

[Gollum]

1 hour ago, Singh bling said:

So after winning war all she did was Hindu's resettled in central India?Why didn't she arm twisted BD  to resettle Hindu's in BD with their property returned .

Lets be honest the biggest winner of BD war was BD muslims.Indians and hindu's got nothing apart from some bragging rights

 

46 minutes ago, Stradlater said:

Got to agree with Singh Bling here @Gollum. Think we botched up things there.

We could have gained so much and yet wasted the opportunity. It was a diplomatic failure for India.

Maybe Hindus didn't want to go back to Bangladesh after what they had experienced in the genocide. Let's be honest here, very rarely do displaced people return back to their original country. Many Lebanese migrated to Australia but when the civil war ended how many returned back? Likewise with Vietnamese boat people, they too haven't returned even though Vietnam is a peaceful place today. Forget the psychological scars here, 1947 partition was unfinished business. Jinnah was right, Hindus and Muslims can't live together...today's South Asia is living proof of that. Eventually all Hindus of the SC will have to return to India and Indian Muslims will raise the banner of revolt in the future just like they did for partition..as they say history goes in cycles. I see 1971 as a logical step towards the final solution. Dharmic people in Bangladesh/Pakistan can either migrate to India or convert/die...after all India is their natural home.

 

What would you have preferred if you were in the position of a displaced Bangladesh Hindu with family members killed and property lost? Would you go back or try to build a future in India? I personally know a few displaced families who are doing great today, their children are studying medical/engineering and economically middle class...they started from nothing just like how many displaced Sindhis and Punjabis started from zilch in 1947 India. I am thankful that Indira Gandhi allowed these people to stay back and build a future here. I wish Modi/Raje had done that with the Pak Hindus who were instead driven away to Pakistan last month where they were forcibly converted to Islam to allow re-entry. Compare the humanity of IG to the depravity of these BJP fakers.

 

Biggest winners were Bangladeshi Muslims but we weren't losers. We cut off West Pakistan from its hub of raw materials and rice basket. Plus that region has immense economic potential which the Bangladesh government is slowly realizing now. Also imagine India surrounded by 2 Pakistans...Bengal aur N.E ka game khalaas kar dete. As such with BNP there we find it tough, imagine ISI/Pak Mil operating brazenly there..that is something we prevented. Biggest loser is Pakistan, ab tak rote hai woh log !!! With an East Pak intact they would have enjoyed much greater international clout, higher GDP, huge market, agriculture concentrated in the fertile water rich East, better water management (they are on the cusp of a water crisis now) and a unique geostrategic advantage that links not just Central Asia and Persia/Arabia but also East and S.E Asia. They could have been a big player had they stayed intact 

 

We failed on the diplomatic front but not here. That happened with the tame Simla Agreement and release of 93000 POWs with no collateral.

Edited July 29, 2018 by Gollum

[Singh bling]

2 hours ago, Gollum said:

Maybe Hindus didn't want to go back to Bangladesh after what they had experienced in the genocide. Let's be honest here, very rarely do displaced people return back to their original country.

If that was the case then India should had annexed some part of BD for Hindu's.

 

India was even unable to arm twist BD to return property of Hindu's.this is not the way a liberated nation should be treated.Germany is still paying for WW2 atrocities.Sorry to say that was sign of weak leadership

 

As Pakistan is concerned , don't think they lost much.the united Pakistan's demographics were not in favour west Pakistan so with it has Bengali's which would have been ruling over them.the civil war was inevitable which could had broken the back of both.

[Gollum]

13 hours ago, Singh bling said:

If that was the case then India should had annexed some part of BD for Hindu's.

 

India was even unable to arm twist BD to return property of Hindu's.this is not the way a liberated nation should be treated.Germany is still paying for WW2 atrocities.Sorry to say that was sign of weak leadership

 

As Pakistan is concerned , don't think they lost much.the united Pakistan's demographics were not in favour west Pakistan so with it has Bengali's which would have been ruling over them.the civil war was inevitable which could had broken the back of both.

Post WW-II order is different. You can't just annex another territory without going unpunished via heavy economic sanctions and foreign military pressure. Even if that were possible we were a lightweight nation back then, may be USA or USSR would have finished things differently if they were in a similar position back then.

 

Main aggressor was Pak Army and Bengali razakars. If we needed to arm twist somebody it should have been Pakistan. Simla Agreement was a colossal failure I agree. I lay the blame on IG completely.

 

Mukti Bahini was our ally, without their help we wouldn't have broken Pakistan. It is rather astonishing to note how Indian sources undermine them and over glorify our army. We were able to swamp Bangladesh and enter Dhaka only because of the guerrilla fighters. You can't force your way into enemy land if you don't have local support, that explains why we have been unable to take back PoK even after so many wars. We installed Bangabandhu as PM and established close ties with the newly formed country, unfortunately for us he died too early.

 

In India don't we share the same country in spite of differing religions, ethnicities, castes/tribes and mother tongues? Pak should have done the same, at least one less thing to worry about because both parts were Muslim majority. They *ed up and know it but won't admit. Bangladesh is galloping forward economically and by 2020 will surpass India in the GDP per capita metric. Pak lost a lot post 1971 which I highlighted in an earlier post.

 

Extending your assertion would you say the same if tomorrow India is split into 2 parts, North of Vindhyas and South of Vindhyas? Is religion/culture/language/ethnicity the be all and end all? Shouldn't one factor in economics, geostrategy and international clout?

Edited July 30, 2018 by Gollum

[Moochad]

18 hours ago, Singh bling said:

So after winning war all she did was Hindu's resettled in central India?Why didn't she arm twisted BD  to resettle Hindu's in BD with their property returned .

Lets be honest the biggest winner of BD war was BD muslims.Indians and hindu's got nothing apart from some bragging rights

Not to mention all our soldiers who were left in Pakistani jails, while we returned all their 90k PoWs

[Gollum]

32 minutes ago, Moochad said:

Not to mention all our soldiers who were left in Pakistani jails, while we returned all their 90k PoWs

Really? Any source to back that up.

[Moochad]

6 minutes ago, Gollum said:

Really? Any source to back that up.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_missing_54

https://www.indiatimes.com/news/kulbushan-jadhav-is-one-here-is-the-story-missing-54-the-indians-soldiers-taken-as-pows-by-pak-who-never-returned-275390.html

 

The missing 54, most of whom are from 1971.

 

There is also a Bollywood movie 1971 starring Manoj Bajpai on the issue.

[Gollum]

38 minutes ago, Moochad said:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_missing_54

https://www.indiatimes.com/news/kulbushan-jadhav-is-one-here-is-the-story-missing-54-the-indians-soldiers-taken-as-pows-by-pak-who-never-returned-275390.html

 

The missing 54, most of whom are from 1971.

 

There is also a Bollywood movie 1971 starring Manoj Bajpai on the issue.

B@stard politicians have let down our braves so often  .

[Singh bling]

9 hours ago, Gollum said:

Mukti Bahini was our ally, without their help we wouldn't have broken Pakistan. It is rather astonishing to note how Indian sources undermine them and over glorify our army. We were able to swamp Bangladesh and enter Dhaka only because of the guerrilla fighters. You can't force your way into enemy land if you don't have local support, that explains why we have been unable to take back PoK even after so many wars. We installed Bangabandhu as PM and established close ties with the newly formed country, unfortunately for us he died too early.

Of course mukti bahini was our ally , but still after becoming pm , Sheikh Mujibur refused to return property of Hindu's that was confiscated during Pak rule .that was betrayal.

 

If India wanted they could had kept 5-10 thousand sq km of BD territory and later on negotited much better deal for BD Hindu's.

 

Resettling them in central or anywhere in India was not the solution.agar yehi karna thaa to ladai kis liye ladi?

10 hours ago, Gollum said:

Extending your assertion would you say the same if tomorrow India is split into 2 parts, North of Vindhyas and South of Vindhyas? Is religion/culture/language/ethnicity the be all and end all? Shouldn't one factor in economics, geostrategy and international 

India is a completey different matter.there is no civil war in India . Moreover West and East Pakistan were divided by thousands miles by sea .I don't know any other country which is ruled like this.the fact is if proper democracy' was established in Pakistan then Bengali Muslims should had been ruling over united Pakistan which was unacceptable to West pakistani's , so division of their country was inevitable

[coffee_rules]

Where is Sonia Maino in this list she ruled for 10 years of UPA 1 and II,

[wanted_desi]

Worst would be Nehru...

[Muloghonto]

On 7/29/2018 at 8:50 AM, Stradlater said:

I can agree with the first two points but the rest I'm sorry don't really make a strong case for her. She simply happened to be PM at the time when the green revolution, Op flood and Pokhran test were conducted. The seeds for all three have been sown way before she was elected as Prime Minister and it was only a matter of time after that.

BS. A CEO still gets 100% credit as doing his job and keep the ball rolling, especially when there are bigger things unfolding. 

Indira can successfully argue that Green revolution, OP Flood are ALSO to her credit, simply because she still had to make decisions regarding it and made the correct ones. 

PM is not a king. Its not like ' make it so as my pops wanted' and thats how it works. They have a lot of running around to do, to make sure things are going well for a major project under the stewardship. Or atleast, thats what the good ones do, this is what Indira did and she cannot be denied credit for that.

 

On 7/29/2018 at 8:50 AM, Stradlater said:

I believe her first term as office was really good. She was much sensible and prudent at that time and had balls(no pun intended) to stand for her cause.

It was only after that managing to grab power at any cost seemed to take over her mind and she did all that was possible to stay in the top position.

Yep. She was the most competent but also one of the most autocratic of Indian PMs. 

On 7/29/2018 at 8:50 AM, Stradlater said:

Don't forget it was her who propped up the extremist Sikh elements in Punjab to counter SAD and when the Frankenstein's monster turned at her it was too late.

Yep. No different from what any country back then did for itself in similar positions. 

On 7/29/2018 at 8:50 AM, Stradlater said:

I have always believed , and with good reasons, that marching tanks in the holy premises of Golden Temple was an extremely foolish idea(not to mention the specific date they chose). Imagine some Indian PM doing that to Jama Masjid in Delhi. All hell will break loose and we would be heading to an another partition.

Yep. And then all hell should be stamped out under iron-clad administration of law. I don't care if a premise is holy or not holy. 

That does not override the fact that a bunch of people are hoarding guns there and threatening to shoot certain people if they step in and take away their guns and ammo, at a PUBLIC location. 

Sikhs should be eternally grateful that Indian Army chose to sacrifice hundreds of its own deads to preserve the golden temple itself and the complex. If it were up to me, whatever building these terrorists are holed up in, if it comes to a military 'threat elimination' choice, would always default to ' missile up their bung-hole' option. As it should.

 

Nobody gets to take over public spaces (or even private spaces without explicit supervision of authorities) to invite hundreds of their buddies to go live in a giant complex and hoarde guns in clear violation of the law. That is a threat, which then will and should be, eliminated. 

On 7/29/2018 at 8:50 AM, Stradlater said:

Infact I respect Sikhs of India for moving on from the tragedy.

 

She was a strong willed woman no doubt about that but way too whimsical imo.

 

Indeed. Sikh in India are not the 'damaged goods' that their foreign counterparts are, as unfortunately, coupled with being victimized by the whites genuinely the longest of almost all Indian 'communities', these foreign pseudo-Sikhs have turned their victim narrative into the whole 'back home too we are epic victims'. Deliberately ommitting the fact that its SIKHS who've mostly controlled the Indian military rank and file, its Sikhs who are above average in virtually every national metric (though that might've changed this generation). 

[Austin 3:!6]

HD Devegowda
IK Gujral

Daylight

Rest

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[asterix]

HD Devegowda
IK Gujral

Daylight

Rest

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Is put IK Gujral ahead of Devegowda...