Please drop Pandya to maintain Test cricket’s sanctity.

[coffee_rules]

how's their top order faring? cook, jennings, root and bairstow have failed too. its the rear guard that India lacks.

[Rightarmfast]

17 minutes ago, rtmohanlal said:

not defending Pandya by any means because no doubt he should have  done lot better especially with the bat. still feel Pandya is  not the  problem  in the larger scheme of things as of now because he still has performed with the ball  & played such a crucial part in the win in the 3rd test .It is not the case of 'all is well that ends well' . Rahul,Dhawan,Kartik & Vijay  are the ones who basically lost the

series.

The problem with your statement is, it doesnt matter what other batsmen did. What matters is, we need someone responsible on a specific position. Pandya doesnt deserve that position, he never will. It is clearly wasting one position which he has eaten away. 

 

Blaming the openers for Pandya's non performance is like giving free ticket to everyone. it doesnt work like that.

[Trichromatic]

4 minutes ago, Rightarmfast said:

 The problem with your statement is, it doesnt matter what other batsmen did. What matters is, we need someone responsible on a specific position. Pandya doesnt deserve that position, he never will. It is clearly wasting one position which he has eaten away. 

  

Blaming the openers for Pandya's non performance is like giving free ticket to everyone. it doesnt work like that.

And it's not that they are getting free ride.

 

At least team recognizes problems with those positions. Rahul, Vijay, Dhawan, Rahane all have lost their positions in last 2 series. Heck even Bhuvi, Ashwin, Ishant, Karthik have been dropped

 

Only Kohli and Pandya have been consistent pick and it gives an indication that he might be doing well with bat which isn't the case.

[Stan AF]

1 hour ago, Frustrated said:

This joker has undone all the hard work done by Kohli and Rahane .  Should be his last match.    Holding has had the last laugh.   

True. (Especially the holding bit)

Edited September 2, 2018 by Stan AF

[zen]

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Primary team India

Opposition team England

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Start of match date greater than or equal to 1 Jan 2018

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Player	Mat	Runs	HS	Bat Av	100	Wkts	BBI	Bowl Av	5	Ct	St	Ave Diff
JJ Bumrah	2	6	6	3.00	0	11	5/85	19.90	1	1	0	-16.90
I Sharma	4	33	14	5.50	0	15	5/51	24.13	1	0	0	-18.63
HH Pandya	4	164	52*	23.42	0	10	5/28	24.70	1	0	0	-1.27
UT Yadav	1	1	1*	-	0	3	2/20	25.33	0	0	0	-
Mohammed Shami	4	26	10*	3.71	0	14	4/57	31.42	0	1	0	-27.71
R Ashwin	4	126	33*	21.00	0	11	4/62	32.72	0	1	0	-11.72
S Dhawan	3	158	44	26.33	0	-	-	-	-	2	0	-
KD Karthik	2	21	20	5.25	0	-	-	-	-	5	0	-
V Kohli	4	544	149	68.00	2	-	-	-	-	4	0	-
Kuldeep Yadav	1	0	0	0.00	0	0	-	-	0	0	0	-
RR Pant	2	43	24	10.75	0	-	-	-	-	10	0	-
CA Pujara	3	241	132*	48.20	1	-	-	-	-	0	0	-
AM Rahane	4	220	81	27.50	0	-	-	-	-	3	0	-
KL Rahul	4	113	36	14.12	0	-	-	-	-	11	0	-
M Vijay	2	26	20	6.50	0	-	-	-	-	0	0	-

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[zen]

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Primary team India

Opposition team England

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Ordered by batting average (descending)

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Overall figures

Player	Mat	Runs	HS	Bat Av	100	Wkts	BBI	Bowl Av	5	Ct	St	Ave Diff
V Kohli	4	544	149	68.00	2	-	-	-	-	4	0	-
CA Pujara	3	241	132*	48.20	1	-	-	-	-	0	0	-
AM Rahane	4	220	81	27.50	0	-	-	-	-	3	0	-
S Dhawan	3	158	44	26.33	0	-	-	-	-	2	0	-
HH Pandya	4	164	52*	23.42	0	10	5/28	24.70	1	0	0	-1.27
R Ashwin	4	126	33*	21.00	0	11	4/62	32.72	0	1	0	-11.72
KL Rahul	4	113	36	14.12	0	-	-	-	-	11	0	-
RR Pant	2	43	24	10.75	0	-	-	-	-	10	0	-
M Vijay	2	26	20	6.50	0	-	-	-	-	0	0	-
I Sharma	4	33	14	5.50	0	15	5/51	24.13	1	0	0	-18.63
KD Karthik	2	21	20	5.25	0	-	-	-	-	5	0	-
Mohammed Shami	4	26	10*	3.71	0	14	4/57	31.42	0	1	0	-27.71
JJ Bumrah	2	6	6	3.00	0	11	5/85	19.90	1	1	0	-16.90
UT Yadav	1	1	1*	-	0	3	2/20	25.33	0	0	0	-
Kuldeep Yadav	1	0	0	0.00	0	0	-	-	0	0	0	-

[rtmohanlal]

16 minutes ago, Rightarmfast said:

The problem with your statement is, it doesnt matter what other batsmen did. What matters is, we need someone responsible on a specific position. Pandya doesnt deserve that position, he never will. It is clearly wasting one position which he has eaten away. 

 

Blaming the openers for Pandya's non performance is like giving free ticket to everyone. it doesnt work like that.

Pandya is still only a 11 test old comparative rookie, but he yet avg:s  31.26 with the bat &  31.06 with the ball as of now, this despite playing 2 tough abroad seres. Yes I agreed,  as you said we need someone responsible on a specific position. But will it come all of a sudden ??  For instance take Kohli. He was utter failure in the last series in ENG, but was a huge success  in other 3 of SENA, means he indeed was one essential component  required  of  a  highly successful team. But with time and experience  he  build on his confidence

and now we can all see what he is doing in ENG. Now what would have been, if we dropped Kohli based on his performance  of last ENG tour???

 

Again Pandya & Ashwin played as allrounders. If we take them together as 'sum of their parts' they avg: 41.5 with the bat & 28.5 with the ball respectively.That means what was required of a specialist batsman & specialist bowler each has been achieved.But yet I will blame Ashwin a lot because of the way he batted in the first inns despite having  such experience.He needed to rise to the occasion then the 3 bowlers basically too played their parts effectively.Then keeper and other 5 batsmen remains.And they together have been far from adequate.

[express bowling]

Rishabh Pant is a specialist batsman.  Averaged 54.5  in FC before test debut.  Had one of the highest batting averages of around 62  in the Unofficial tests in the just concluded A-tour to England.  Has been a top batsman in FC.

 

We did play with 6 specialist batsmen in the last 2 tests and were not short of a batsman.

 

Pandya should be dropped if he does not perform. No two ways about it.  And the same logic applies to every other player.

 

BUT

 

The new player who comes in must be an allrounder too.  The 5th bowling option has helped our bowling unit a lot.  And reasonable batting ability is needed of the No.7 player.  We cant have a batsman who can't bowl or a bowler who can't bat as the No.7 player.

 

 

Edited September 2, 2018 by express bowling

[Lala]

He was the man in last test. How should we drop him? Where to replace fast bowl all rounder? 

[R.D forever]

1 minute ago, express bowling said:

Rishabh Pant is a specialist batsman.  Averaged 54.5  in FC before test debut.  Had one of the highest batting averages of around 62  in the Unofficial tests in the just concluded A-tour to England.  Has been a top batsman in FC.

 

We did play with 6 specialist batsman in the last 2 tests and were not short of a batsman.

 

Pandya should be dropped if he does not perform. No two ways about it.  And the same logic applies to every other player.

 

BUT

 

The new player who comes in must be an allrounder too.  The 5th bowling option has helped our bowling unit a lot.  And reasonable batting ability is needed of the No.7 player.  We cant have a batsman who can't bowl or a bowler who can't bat as the No.7 player.

 

 

1) 2002-2008 our best period.. did not have a bowling allrounder to share the load . That too with a poor bowling attack. No need to copy England and SA

 

2) Even if we need an allrounder possibility to find a medium fast allrounder india is not possible. We don't have anyone except Vijay Shankar. Best possible scenario is someone like moeen Ali (Sundar, jayant)

 

3) Pandya's FC avg is 27. 

[rtmohanlal]

some people conveniently forgetting that he still avg:s below 25 in this series with the ball.

[zen]

5 minutes ago, rtmohanlal said:

some people conveniently forgetting that he still avg:s below 25 in this series with the ball.

Many of these guys see Pandya as a soft target so their fav player can take his spot .... which good cricket fan would not want to back a youngster who is going through the learning curve and has done better (including winning Ind a test in SENA) than the specialists .... If the specialists in reserve are so good, they should find a place for themselves in place of the incumbent struggling specialists 

Edited September 2, 2018 by zen

[express bowling]

22 minutes ago, R.D forever said:

1) 2002-2008 our best period.. did not have a bowling allrounder to share the load . That too with a poor bowling attack.

 

1 )  We had Ganguly and Sehwag  who functioned as the backup bowlers when needed.

 

2 )  That period was good because of our batting and not bowling,  as you said.

 

 

Quote

No need to copy England and SA

 

We have built a very potent pace bowling attack from the time we are playing 5 bowlers.  

 

The pacers are fresher and are bowling with more intensity, pace and accuracy.  It is not an issue of emulating other teams.

 

 

Quote

2) Even if we need an allrounder possibility to find a medium fast allrounder india is not possible. We don't have anyone except Vijay Shankar. Best possible scenario is someone like moeen Ali (Sundar, jayant)

 

That would depend on pitch type.  Don't see our Team management playing a spinner all-rounder in Sena countries, barring an odd venue here and there.

 

Vijay Shankar can be handy in England, NZ and SA.  He is a proper batsmen and a decent swing bowler.

 

Quote

3) Pandya's FC avg is 27. 

 

FC averages are important for a player in his debut series or 2nd series. Pandya's test average of 31 is more relevant now.  And it is ok for a No.7 but not for a No.6.

Edited September 2, 2018 by express bowling

[rtmohanlal]

11 minutes ago, zen said:

Many of these guys see Pandya as a soft target so their fav player can take his spot .... which good cricket fan would not want to back a youngster who is going through the learning curve and has done better (including winning Ind a test in SENA) than the specialists .... If the specialists in reserve are so good, they should find a place for themselves in place of the incumbent struggling specialists 

......and they think dropping him and bringing another talented rookie would all of a sudden  fix the problem. Yes ...we are all disappointed  as of now for sure and  naturally would be tempted to blame those particular  players  who caused the ' game in concern to  lose.But that doesn't solve the problem in the longer run.Pandya to me definitely is that  one component of a 'group of 16'  from which and eleven can be selected for each and every condition. As of now Kohli,Rahane,Ashwin,Jadeja,Pandya,Bhuvi,Bumrah.Kuldeep & Shami  form that  core components. Others need to be immediately dropped or phased out depending on the availablity of better replacements.

[zen]

As for batting, Pandya has played most of his games in SENA in difficult conditions. His avg in subcon will be a lot higher .... can think of 1 100 and 2 50s in 4 tests so far 

[zen]

Pandya averages 60+ in subson 

 

View overall figures [change view]

Primary team India

Opposition team Afghanistan  or Sri Lanka

Start of match date greater than or equal to 1 Jul 2017

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Player	Mat	Inns	NO	Runs	HS	Ave	BF	SR	100	50	0	4s	6s
RG Sharma	2	3	2	217	102*	217.00	311	69.77	1	2	0	20	3
V Kohli	6	9	2	771	243	110.14	999	77.17	4	1	1	67	5
M Vijay	3	4	0	397	155	99.25	653	60.79	3	0	0	41	2
S Dhawan	6	9	0	657	190	73.00	691	95.07	3	2	0	96	7
CA Pujara	7	10	0	633	153	63.30	1252	50.55	3	1	0	68	1
HH Pandya	4	4	0	249	108	62.25	259	96.13	1	2	0	26	10
UT Yadav	6	5	5	54	26*	-	62	87.09	0	0	0	5	3
KL Rahul	5	6	0	282	85	47.00	420	67.14	0	4	1	32	0
A Mukund	1	2	0	93	81	46.50	142	65.49	0	1	0	10	0
RA Jadeja	6	7	3	145	70*	36.25	226	64.15	0	1	0	11	5
WP Saha	6	7	2	143	67	28.60	339	42.18	0	1	0	14	1
AM Rahane	7	10	1	256	132	28.44	545	46.97	1	1	1	25	0
Kuldeep Yadav	1	1	0	26	26	26.00	73	35.61	0	0	0	2	0
Mohammed Shami	5	5	1	93	30	23.25	84	110.71	0	0	0	7	5
R Ashwin	7	8	0	170	54	21.25	350	48.57	0	1	0	16	1
B Kumar	1	2	0	21	13	10.50	35	60.00	0	0	0	2	0
I Sharma	3	1	0	8	8	8.00	13	61.53	0	0	0	1	0
KD Karthik	1	1	0	4	4	4.00	22	18.18	0	0	0	0	0

[coffee_rules]

14 minutes ago, zen said:

Pandya averages 60+ in subson 

 

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Opposition team Afghanistan  or Sri Lanka

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Player	Mat	Inns	NO	Runs	HS	Ave	BF	SR	100	50	0	4s	6s
RG Sharma	2	3	2	217	102*	217.00	311	69.77	1	2	0	20	3
V Kohli	6	9	2	771	243	110.14	999	77.17	4	1	1	67	5
M Vijay	3	4	0	397	155	99.25	653	60.79	3	0	0	41	2
S Dhawan	6	9	0	657	190	73.00	691	95.07	3	2	0	96	7
CA Pujara	7	10	0	633	153	63.30	1252	50.55	3	1	0	68	1
HH Pandya	4	4	0	249	108	62.25	259	96.13	1	2	0	26	10
UT Yadav	6	5	5	54	26*	-	62	87.09	0	0	0	5	3
KL Rahul	5	6	0	282	85	47.00	420	67.14	0	4	1	32	0
A Mukund	1	2	0	93	81	46.50	142	65.49	0	1	0	10	0
RA Jadeja	6	7	3	145	70*	36.25	226	64.15	0	1	0	11	5
WP Saha	6	7	2	143	67	28.60	339	42.18	0	1	0	14	1
AM Rahane	7	10	1	256	132	28.44	545	46.97	1	1	1	25	0
Kuldeep Yadav	1	1	0	26	26	26.00	73	35.61	0	0	0	2	0
Mohammed Shami	5	5	1	93	30	23.25	84	110.71	0	0	0	7	5
R Ashwin	7	8	0	170	54	21.25	350	48.57	0	1	0	16	1
B Kumar	1	2	0	21	13	10.50	35	60.00	0	0	0	2	0
I Sharma	3	1	0	8	8	8.00	13	61.53	0	0	0	1	0
KD Karthik	1	1	0	4	4	4.00	22	18.18	0	0	0	0	0

Sample size is too small for Pandya to compare with others. Based on looks, I don't know how captain and cognac are convinced. This is their ego in play, which will cost India in the long run. Pandya and Ashwin were the main wreckers in this defeat in contrast with Curran and Ali. There you go.

 

[zen]

8 minutes ago, coffee_rules said:

Sample size is too small for Pandya to compare with others. Based on looks, I don't know how captain and cognac are convinced. This is their ego in play, which will cost India in the long run. Pandya and Ashwin were the main wreckers in this defeat in contrast with Curran and Ali. There you go.

 

We have to look at the performances in the series till now where Pandya has picked up 10 wkts as the fifth bowler and scored 164 runs at 6-7th batsman. That includes a match winning spell 

 

This test he did not do well but the specialists are supposed to play much better .... 

[zaqw222222]

I would not drop Pandya but he needs to improve his batting if he has to justify playing at no. 6 in this lineup

[Frustrated]

Pandya is coming to bat at a time when the ball is relatively old, the bowlers are tired and it is much easier to bat,. Yet he is unable to score. This is really disappointing.    His failure should not be justified with top order failure as the top order faces the new ball with all the shine intact.      His place should be really under scrutiny even though he is young.