ATG Test 11 Pace Bowlers

[rtmohanlal]

56 minutes ago, zen said:

This is only for tests

oh...my mistake .... yet these 3 still for me. Marshall  has more or less   equal record as these 3. But  both Ambrose and Mcgrath had much better longevity. And Marshall belonged to a group of 4 equally great bowlers so that he could feed off from the other 3.

Hadlee was an one man army

[Rasgulla]

 Where is Umesh Yadav... phastttt gang won't be happy you left out their butter boy

Edited August 8, 2018 by Rasgulla

[Tattieboy]

2 minutes ago, MultiB48 said:

why have you included barnes? he was a spinner 

Was he?

[Jimmy Cliff]

2 minutes ago, Tattieboy said:

Was he?

Seems so according to the great man himself.

 

Quote

This method brought Barnes 189 Test wickets at 16.43 each, and universal recognition from his contemporaries as the greatest bowler of his era. It was the swerve that did it, movement akin to the drift you still see now in good spin bowling, only faster through the air. But this was genuine spin bowling – Barnes was outraged when David Frith once had the temerity to ask him if he cut the ball? "'Cut it?' He glared, and again I wondered if he might hurl something at me. 'I spun the ball!'" The great Australian batsmen Clem Hill remembered how a "ball pitched outside my leg-stump, safe to the push off my pads, I thought. Before I could 'pick up' my bat, my off-stump was knocked silly".

Rejoicing in the Twirlymen and the forgotten art of medium-paced spin

[zen]

Removed options that were not likely to get many votes - Barnes and Garner. Lillee has only 2 votes so far 

[The Outsider]

Marshall, McGrath, and Akram. 

 

Many don't rate Akram because of his slightly inferior numbers compared with other greats, but in addition to the obvious variety he brings as a left armer and a reverse swing specialist, just watching him bowl was stunning. 

 

No wonder that all great batsmen who faced him have great things to say about him, and many explicitly say he was the toughest bowler they faced. 

 

It’s a bit like Tendulkar and Lara. While their raw numbers are comparable with a few other batsmen of their generation, the best bowlers testify how difficult it was to bowl to them, which sets them up a notch above their contemporary greats. 

[Brainfade]

 

 

[Brainfade]

47 minutes ago, rtmohanlal said:

oh...my mistake .... yet these 3 still for me. Marshall  has more or less   equal record as these 3. But  both Ambrose and Mcgrath had much better longevity. And Marshall belonged to a group of 4 equally great bowlers so that he could feed off from the other 3.

Hadlee was an one man army

One could argue that Marshall shared the spoils with the other greats, or else might have had more wkts to his name.

[zen]

 

Hadlee was probably one of the smartest bowlers around. Above he set up Botham for a wkt in an ODI (appears to be in Aus)

 

I recall reading somewhere that he kept a book that detailed weaknesses of key batsmen .... He is also one of the biggest match winners .... NZ probably won 0 tests when Hadlee was not playing 

Edited August 8, 2018 by zen

[Straight Drive]

Curtly Ambrose and Walsh were one of the most successful bowling pair. Iirc they have somewhere between 1300  to 1400 wickets between them , including tests and ODI.

 

Wondering if any other pair has picked so many wickets. What would be the second best pair who have bowled most in tandem.

 

Waqar - Wasim ? 

 

Another WI pair of the quartet?

 

One pair from the trio Indian spin combo?

 

 

[zen]

My ATG 11 would look like this:

 

Gavaskar

Richards (avg 60 as a top order batsman iirc)

Bradman (it is like playing 2 batsmen)

Lara / Tendulkar 

Sobers

Gilly

Hadlee

Marshall

Warne

Ambrose

Murali 

[kira]

Marshall/Mcgrath joint no. 1

Ambrose no. 2

Hadlee no. 3

Steyn no. 4

Akram no. 5

 

Don't rate that home track bully-  lillee 

[kira]

12 minutes ago, zen said:

My ATG 11 would look like this:

 

Gavaskar

Richards (avg 60 as a top order batsman iirc)

Bradman (it is like playing 2 batsmen)

Lara / Tendulkar 

Sobers

Gilly

Hadlee

Marshall

Warne

Ambrose

Murali 

My ATG 11

 

Gavaskar

G. Smith

Ponting

Tendulkar

Lara

Kallis

Gilly

Akram

Warne

Marshall

Mcgrath

 

12th man- Richard hadlee

[Moochad]

I would like the option of other in the poll 

 

From teh choices 

 

Steyn and Marshall and Mcgrath 

[zen]

 

 

Edited August 9, 2018 by zen

[mishra]

9 minutes ago, zen said:

Appears as if Lillee will not get too many votes so will remove him from the poll too at some point .... Removing from poll does not mean that the bowlers are not ATGs but just that they are not likely to be popular choices .... To put it in perspective, a team like Ind probably has never had a pace bowler of Lillee's calibre  

But the players you decided/decide to add later, post several votes have been casted is at disadvantage. I see a lot of Steyn based on chatsupport

Edited August 9, 2018 by mishra

[zen]

7 minutes ago, mishra said:

But the players you decided/decide to add later, post several votes have been casted is at disadvantage. I see a lot of Steyn based on chatsupport

Steyn was an exception .... am trying to offer fewer choices so votes remain concentrated 

Edited August 9, 2018 by zen

[Tibarn]

 

2 hours ago, Moochad said:

I would like the option of other in the poll 

 

From teh choices 

 

Steyn and Marshall and Mcgrath 

Me too, but I don't agree with the results either.

 

To me, it's Steyn, Marshall, and Waqar. These 3 were the most dangerous bowlers among those who are considered ATGs, as evidenced by their SRs and their relative consistency across countries. 

 

Steyn is by miles the best fast bowler of all time in my eyes. He SR is decisively better than McGraths, (10 balls better! ), who seems to be leading the poll. McGrath only has total wickets and a 1 point average over Steyn. Basically he played almost 40 more tests than Steyn, so he has the wicket total. Of course, Anderson seems to be on pace to overtake him there...

 

Waqar is far better than Wasim, and is criminally underrated. I guess Indians are wowed by his ODI exploits but don't realize that Waqar consistently outperforms him in Tests. I guess the padoisis love Wasim more and thus promote him as an ATG far more than Waqar.  

[Moochad]

32 minutes ago, Tibarn said:

 

Me too, but I don't agree with the results either.

 

To me, it's Steyn, Marshall, and Waqar. These 3 were the most dangerous bowlers among those who are considered ATGs, as evidenced by their SRs and their relative consistency across countries. 

 

Steyn is by miles the best fast bowler of all time in my eyes. He SR is decisively better than McGraths, (10 balls better! ), who seems to be leading the poll. McGrath only has total wickets and a 1 point average over Steyn. Basically he played almost 40 more tests than Steyn, so he has the wicket total. Of course, Anderson seems to be on pace to overtake him there...

 

Waqar is far better than Wasim, and is criminally underrated. I guess Indians are wowed by his ODI exploits but don't realize that Waqar consistently outperforms him in Tests. I guess the padoisis love Wasim more and thus promote him as an ATG far more than Waqar.  

Just looked thorugh statsguru, I didn't realize waqar was so good!

[express bowling]

23 hours ago, zen said:

If Barnes and Garner do not get votes, I will remove them from the poll as I do not want these greats to be w/o any vote

 

I was waiting for you to add Garner ...  so did not vote.

 

He is not getting many votes because most people have not seen him bowl.

 

Give it some time.

 

He has the 2nd lowest average in the history of test cricket  (  among bowlers with 200+ wickets  )  ...   if that does not get him in the options even then it does not look good.