Has the time arrived to side line Shami more and more????

[Nikola]

We should play Bhuvi (as AR), Ishant, Bumrah & Siraj in Australia with Umesh to replace who ever under performs.

[Nikhil_cric]

12 hours ago, cric_fan said:

So Shami is the scapegoat?

Scapegoat? Guy averages 35 bowling with the dukes ball in probably the most favourable conditions for bowling and was the worst bowler by a mile.

[Rightarmfast]

To perform the way he has done, despite all the mental tension he has been undergoing, is nothing short of brilliant. Just during the England series, his ex wife had put allegations against him. Whether they are true or not is besides the point. With so much at stake, his whole career, a probable police enquiry, court case etc, he is still coming out and performing and still touching 90mph. 

 

Sure, you can kick him out. But not because he is performing bad. But because he has issues which are not in his hands which actually affects his performance and the team. 

[rtmohanlal]

12 minutes ago, Rightarmfast said:

To perform the way he has done, despite all the mental tension he has been undergoing, is nothing short of brilliant. Just during the England series, his ex wife had put allegations against him. Whether they are true or not is besides the point. With so much at stake, his whole career, a probable police enquiry, court case etc, he is still coming out and performing and still touching 90mph. 

 

Sure, you can kick him out. But not because he is performing bad. But because he has issues which are not in his hands which actually affects his performance and the team. 

from a professional point of view , do his personnel problems  count?? Especially for some body who earns  may be even crores/year  , that makes it even more guilty from a 'performance point of view'

[Rightarmfast]

27 minutes ago, rtmohanlal said:

from a professional point of view , do his personnel problems  count?? Especially for some body who earns  may be even crores/year  , that makes it even more guilty from a 'performance point of view'

No it doesnt. Thats what I said, kick him out because he is affected by his domestic problems. But he wasnt trash. I wont say that he is no more one of Indians finest bowlers. He still is. I dont think that India has any bowler, apart from Bumrah who can match him for his talents.

[express bowling]

Very short term stats don't always reflect how one has played.

 

Shami was having acute marital problems during the South Africa tour ... bowled poorly as a result, especially in all the first innings ...  but ended up with 15 wickets in that 3 test series at an average of only 17 and was the highest wicket taker from either side.

 

In this series, Shami has bowled well and bowled his heart out.  He is the fittest now  in 3 years and has bowled 7 to 8 over spells in every innings while sustaining pace and intensity.  Has generally bowled in good areas at high pace and moved the ball both ways.  But results have not come in the form of sufficient wickets. Happens in the short run.

 

Moreover, for the first time in our history, a group of pacers ... Bumrah, Shami, Bhuvi and Ishant ...  are making a name for themselves as a dangerous pace bowling unit which can take 20 wickets rather cheaply in almost every test overseas.  We can add to this unit in the form of Siraj and Saini ... but removing someone now makes little sense.  

Edited September 10, 2018 by express bowling

[Sachinism]

Man, we have some rubbish fans.

Shami has bowled brilliantly, could've done with a bit more luck. - A performance like this and getting **** on by supposed 'fans'

[Nikola]

Say anything he has worked hard in this series (him and ishant have worked most hard from our xi). Could have bowled better in 3rd test but was best bowler in 4th test and idk if we can say best bowler in this test but he has bowled good without luck.

[rkt.india]

he actually proved the difference in our win or loss. With third seamer averaging 38, you cant expect to win a big overseas test series.  Had he matched Bumrah and Ishant in bowling averages, result could have been different. 

[Nikola]

32 minutes ago, rkt.india said:

he actually proved the difference in our win or loss. With third seamer averaging 38, you cant expect to win a big overseas test series.  Had he matched Bumrah and Ishant in bowling averages, result could have been different. 

No, He wasn't different in our win or loss. We lost in lords before we bowled. We should have won 1st and 4th test where he bowled pretty well. His stats in lords are poor but he was best bowler that day. I remember his spell to woakes where he was clueless facing him but runs were there on board and both him and curran went to slog. In first test he was okay, Four test he was best, Second & Fifth test he was really unlucky which stats won't show but you will have to watch replay. Many boundaries were edges passing near from slips & obviously when bumrah and ishant bowl and create pressure the batsman will look to score bit more runs against shami and pandya so they will be more attacking while facing him & pandya than ishant or bumrah. Yes he needs to improve alot and that's job of bowling coach but i won't say he was difference in win or loss.

[rtmohanlal]

Shami was one of the main reasons for the  big difference of 4-1. As of now he has been  only  successful in SAF of SENA, that too because of the conditions so helpful to bowling in his 2nd series there. In the first series in SAF he was  utter flop too. So , all in all he has been till now the bowling version of Pujara. Proven mediocrities like him are not at all going to help in the process of winning more matches in SENA. 

[Nikola]

14 minutes ago, rtmohanlal said:

Shami was one of the main reasons for the  big difference of 4-1. As of now he has been  only  successful in SAF of SENA, that too because of the conditions so helpful to bowling in his 2nd series there. In the first series in SAF he was  utter flop too. So , all in all he has been till now the bowling version of Pujara. Proven mediocrities like him are not at all going to help in the process of winning more matches in SENA. 

First all were flop in 2013-14 South Africa tour. Ishant averaged 62, Zak 45 & Shami 43 with all having similar economy of around 3.4-3.5. He was successful because conditions were helpful in South Africa? Yes agreed but if he would have failed then you would have said useless all time in SENA countries. His failures can be considered in England. In Australia he wasn't really great but was best bowler during 2014 series on highways. 

Edited September 14, 2018 by Nikola

[express bowling]

23 minutes ago, rtmohanlal said:

Shami was one of the main reasons for the  big difference of 4-1. As of now he has been  only  successful in SAF of SENA, that too because of the conditions so helpful to bowling in his 2nd series there. In the first series in SAF he was  utter flop too. So , all in all he has been till now the bowling version of Pujara. Proven mediocrities like him are not at all going to help in the process of winning more matches in SENA. 

 

In the first round of SENA tours for Shami  (  end 2013 to end 2014 )  ,  our pace bowling unit was in total disarray ... with no leader of the attack and a bunch of rookies, including Shami, having a tough time in foreign conditions.

 

No Indian pacer did well on those tours. The only exception was Bhuvi in England 2014 as England is the best place to bowl for genuine swing bowlers.

 

 

Edited September 14, 2018 by express bowling

[Nikola]

5 minutes ago, express bowling said:

 

In the first round of SENA tours for Shami  (  end 2013 to end 2014 )  ,  our pace bowling unit was in total disarray ... with no leader of the attack and a bunch of rookies, including Shami, having a tough time in foreign conditions.

 

No Indian pacer did well on those tours. The only exception was Bhuvi in England 2014 as England is the best place to bowl for genuine swing bowlers.

 

 

Yeah idk how he is responsible for loss of series. The test matches which we should have won are 1st and 4th test in which he performed best compared to other bowlers. In 4th test pitch wasn't helpful for pacers but he got 6 wickets + run out of root so surely he gave everything for us to win. Ashwin was real difference in 4th test. In 5th test shami and even bumrah were bit unlucky.

[rkt.india]

58 minutes ago, Nikola said:

No, He wasn't different in our win or loss. We lost in lords before we bowled. We should have won 1st and 4th test where he bowled pretty well. His stats in lords are poor but he was best bowler that day. I remember his spell to woakes where he was clueless facing him but runs were there on board and both him and curran went to slog. In first test he was okay, Four test he was best, Second & Fifth test he was really unlucky which stats won't show but you will have to watch replay. Many boundaries were edges passing near from slips & obviously when bumrah and ishant bowl and create pressure the batsman will look to score bit more runs against shami and pandya so they will be more attacking while facing him & pandya than ishant or bumrah. Yes he needs to improve alot and that's job of bowling coach but i won't say he was difference in win or loss.

He was there when Sam Curran scored those runs at Edgabaston and Southampton.  we let them score 240 from 86/6 in Southampton.  

[mishra]

Sharmaji, is only bowler i dont like. But honestly, I was prooven wrong this series.

This is only series where I cant find fault with Sharmajii or any pacer. Number wickets never tell how many times Shami went past the edges of English bats. We were so good in our bowling that even English experts are still cimparing how their pacer need to work hard and be like Indian bowlers.

Edited September 14, 2018 by mishra

[express bowling]

21 minutes ago, rkt.india said:

He was there when Sam Curran scored those runs at Edgabaston and Southampton.  we let them score 240 from 86/6 in Southampton.  

 

England have packed their team with batsmen till 9.  This is because they know their conditions and the ball used.

 

The Dukes ball becomes softer after 40 overs or so and batting becomes easier unless there is massive cloud cover etc.

 

The English have outplayed us tactically as they are playing in their own known conditions at home.

 

We, on the other hand, have a very top heavy batting line-up away from Asia.  

 

This has been the main difference in the series.

 

The other factor being ... we did not include a genuine swing bowler in the squad in the absence of Bhuvi.  When the ball gets softer but still swings, a genuine swing bowler could have helped.  Which is why I wanted Rajpoot for England.

 

This Team management is tactically weak and not that observant.

 

 

 

 

Edited September 14, 2018 by express bowling

[bhakum20]

No he should be persisted with. He has the right intent and all the tricks in the bag. If we can give Ishant 10 years then Shami needs to be chosen at least till the next away season. I don't think we have some budding superstar speedster to replace him.