David Willey vs Lyon

[vvvslaxman]

 

[rkt.india]

old  news

[velu]

should replace bravo

good swing bowler as well .. far better than chahar

[Suhaan]

Never considered as a threat in lois

In Tests he is a different beast altogether

[vvvslaxman]

5 hours ago, rkt.india said:

old  news

Actually i was the one who shared that old news lol There is a reason why i share it. I think India is the only team that over-rates him

[The Dark Horse]

1 minute ago, vvvslaxman said:

Actually i was the one who shared that old news lol There is a reason why i share it. I think India is the only team that over-rates him

Old news.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Real McCoy]

Pant had the right intentions to get on top of him by hitting sixes in the first test but he was too stupid to not cash in on it. Should have taken the easy runs when the field was back for him. A first test failure would have some psychological effect on him. Whereas now, he has the confidence to make further inroads to our fragile batting order.

[Clarke]

Erm, white ball & red ball cricket shouldnt be compared just like that. 

 

Having said that, our batting standards are abysmal against spin compared to the past. A decade back Warne & Murali were efficiently tackled while now Moeen & Lyon run rings around us.

 

[Cricketics]

2 hours ago, vvvslaxman said:

Actually i was the one who shared that old news lol There is a reason why i share it. I think India is the only team that over-rates him

Nothing like over rate. Other teams perform with the bat worse than us when they go to Aus barring few like Eng and Saf sometimes.

 

Most visiting teams to Australia get bundled out to the fast bowling attack that spinner doesn’t even come into play much. India openers struggled in Aus but our middle order at least holds back to pace bowlers and thats when Aus try spinners. Otherwise their first weapon is always fast bowlers.

 

 

Just because we survive their fast bowlers as a unit is why Lyon gets to bowl more. Other batting unit fail big time to Australian fast bowling unit which makes sure Lyon is not able to bowl hat many overs.

 

 

[vvvslaxman]

10 minutes ago, Cricketics said:

Nothing like over rate. Other teams perform with the bat worse than us when they go to Aus barring few like Eng and Saf sometimes.

 

Most visiting teams to Australia get bundled out to the fast bowling attack that spinner doesn’t even come into play much. India openers struggled in Aus but our middle order at least holds back to pace bowlers and thats when Aus try spinners. Otherwise their first weapon is always fast bowlers.

 

 

Just because we survive their fast bowlers as a unit is why Lyon gets to bowl more. Other batting unit fail big time to Australian fast bowling unit which makes sure Lyon is not able to bowl hat many overs.

 

 

I am not talking about the situations that get him wickets. On evidence regardless of their pace strength, regardless of how comfortable the situation is they struggle big time against Lyon. Every ball looks like a wicket taking delivery. It was so sad to see how every single guy does the same thing. Lunging or running down the track to smother the spin. Both are risky options. Hardly any backfoot play. Hardly any manipulative stroke play through off side. Lyon is not the only one. Moeen Ali did the same in England.

[Cricketics]

22 minutes ago, vvvslaxman said:

I am not talking about the situations that get him wickets. On evidence regardless of their pace strength, regardless of how comfortable the situation is they struggle big time against Lyon. Every ball looks like a wicket taking delivery. It was so sad to see how every single guy does the same thing. Lunging or running down the track to smother the spin. Both are risky options. Hardly any backfoot play. Hardly any manipulative stroke play through off side. Lyon is not the only one. Moeen Ali did the same in England.

Sp let me give you bit batting 101 and cricket ergonomics 101 and with all due respect as I play cricket a lot and those who play more will have more idea about this particular aspect since we use such motion on daily basis and just judging on tv won’t give anyone any idea.

 

 

There is no problem in lunging forward. Kids are taught to lunge forward to bring speed to their shots. You can only play on backfoot if the ball is short of length and not full. If Lyon is keeping the ball on the rough and the rough is more towards the wicket and ball has to be bowled fuller, then none of the greats like Tendlya, Dravid or Laxman would even play on backfoot. Yes, as great as they were, they won’t play such ball on backfoot because really why would you play a shot which won’t give you any run when fielders are spread out on off and the ball is very fuller. And you risk of the ball keeping low or edging. 

 

The moment Lyon bowls any short stuff, I see Kohli or Vijay going on backfoot, which is a good technique.

 

Pujara did the best in fact and was the most accirate and was the best among all the bats by coming down the track and putting Lyon off his line to make him change his line.

 

So yeah back to what you were saying,  in reality,those who play cricket a lot and not just watch on tv would understand this better - You don’t play on backfoot on a very fullish delivery of spinner, especially when field is spread out. You stand and play your shot or you lunge forward to get the speed in your drive.

 

Dravid used to do this all the time.

 

No proper batting coach or technique expert guy will ever agree with you that we shouldn’t lean forward to spinner. Its a cricketing way of batting and proper physics of getting the most speed out your shot as that is the proper ergonomics of batting.

 

 

So there are two different debate heres which you have mixed it up. Playing poor to spin and getting caught bat pad is a different technique and lunging forward is a totally okay and different discussion. 

 

Lunging forward is correct.

Another discussion is our struggle overall to spin bowling - thats a totally different discussion which we shouldn’t mix up with our players lunging forward.

 

 

 

[vvvslaxman]

They missed out on plenty of short balls from Lyon.  I have seen better spinners like Saqlain. Thing about playing spinner is getting into good position. Sehwag's 201 at Galle is perfect example of how to be always in good position. He wasn't lunging or crouching or edging the balls away. He defended every single ball with middle of the bat. Even fractionally short balls were punished. I did not see even remotely close to that. Dravid was considered to be the weakest against spinners among the fab 4. But he is still way better than the current crop. Even the backfoot play were more like blocks. They allowed Australia to choke them with 2-7 field in the first test. In the second test 4-5 field.  Even at peak of Kohli's powers he looks like a bunny to Lyon.

[Adi BB]

Need someone like pandya to put him back to his place 

[Nikola]

His best comes vs India. In like 16 matches he has 7 fifer and 2 MOMs. He has played like 82 matches and has 14 total fifer. That shows either he is too good vs India or we are too bad players of spin now a days.

[rkt.india]

14 hours ago, Clarke said:

Erm, white ball & red ball cricket shouldnt be compared just like that. 

 

Having said that, our batting standards are abysmal against spin compared to the past. A decade back Warne & Murali were efficiently tackled while now Moeen & Lyon run rings around us.

 

Efficiently tackled only at home.  We have tackled Lyon at home as well.  Murli had troubled us in SL.  Same with Warne. A decade back even likes of Gavin Robertson, Ashley Giles, Gareth Batty, and Shaun Udal had troubled us. So not everything was rosy a decade back.  We have always played leg spinners better because they are usually slow in the air.  you can use your feet. 

[Clarke]

14 minutes ago, rkt.india said:

Efficiently tackled only at home.  We have tackled Lyon at home as well.  Murli had troubled us in SL.  Same with Warne. A decade back even likes of Gavin Robertson, Ashley Giles, Gareth Batty, and Shaun Udal had troubled us. So not everything was rosy a decade back.  We have always played leg spinners better because they are usually slow in the air.  you can use your feet. 

There u go, negating others for the sake of it. U seriously don't see a difference in our playing spin ? Bringing out the blips like Udal, where we played 5 batsmen including Yuvi in a test ? Who said we did 100% right & Mendis series never happened ? It's all relative, but you just enjoy being a contrarian for the sake of it.

Edited December 21, 2018 by Clarke

[vvvslaxman]

9 hours ago, rkt.india said:

Efficiently tackled only at home.  We have tackled Lyon at home as well.  Murli had troubled us in SL.  Same with Warne. A decade back even likes of Gavin Robertson, Ashley Giles, Gareth Batty, and Shaun Udal had troubled us. So not everything was rosy a decade back.  We have always played leg spinners better because they are usually slow in the air.  you can use your feet. 

You are talking about odd collapse. When did we struggle against May. Have you ever seen an Indian team struggling against offies in almost every match.  Once in a while you collapse against pressure. But what I see is ultra poor range of shots against offies.  He bowls every single ball at the same spot with same field while keeping them in check for several overs.  Let us admit the obvious. These players are much inferior players against spinners. I don’t blame all Indians. May be Shaw Gill could outdo these guys against spinners