Most away wins by Indian captain - Kohli on brink of becoming most successful Indian captain

[putrevus]

Aussies turn around started in 1986 under Border and Simpson in India, gradually they became stronger thru next 5 years , winning against WI in 1995 was there ascension to throne of best team in the world.Next 10 years they were unbeatable.

 

Kohli has started the turn around in SA , yes he didn't win in SA or England but they did compete.They need two other gun batsmen along with couple of fast bowlers to make this test team next super team.

 

Kohli the captain is the best thing which has happened to Indian cricket.

 

[R!TTER]

The Aussie turnaround really started with the 86 India tour, with a famous WC in 87 & turned into a real tsunami once they won the Ashes in 89. The ascension to the top in 95 was just a natural progression & they were nearly unbeatable for about 8 years.

 

However there are lots of memorable, unexpected wins in their way to the top - Sydney vs WI 1988(?) then SL 1994, WI 1995 & arguably Pak as well. I doubt they started as favorites or on equal footing in any of those games/series.

 

We are pretty much starting as favorites or strong favorites in each of our away tours. Kohli's real test will be the next WC & then the other tour vs full strength Oz away. He failed the CT test, did about par in SA & below par in England.

 

The other thing that OZ did under Border was develop promising youngsters into ATG of their gen, like Waugh/Mcgrath/Warne/Gilly etc. We won't ever reach the next level unless we develop a core that lasts us the next decade, after Kohli/Pujara retire.

[putrevus]

^^^^ Who said India was favorite to win in away tours.You can only develop  players who are good.Rahul who has been given every chance to develop has stunk.

Edited December 30, 2018 by putrevus

[singhprakash72]

My simple assessment -

Ganguly had better batsman but below avg bowling attack ( & crappy wkt keeper) he did his best at whatever was at his disposal 

Dhoni- Still had a great batting line (at least till 2010) and average bowling attack (again till 2010)- Should have won more overseas Tests but was very very defensive ( kind of similar for Dravid)

Kohli- Below average batting line up (even with him) and good bowling attack- Attacking but lacks judgement on selection and pitch assessment.

With 2003-2010 batting line up of (Sehwag, GG, SRT, VVS, Dravid) Kohli should have won SA 2-1, Eng 4-1 and Aus 4-0.

  

[R!TTER]

8 minutes ago, putrevus said:

^^^^ Who said India was favorite to win in away tours.You can only develop  players who are good.Rahul who has been given every chance to develop

So you're saying that Aussies saying this is our best chance, without Smith or Warner, to win in Oz are exaggerating? I think we said the same vs England, but Kumar & Bumrah injury did do a number to our chances. SA series was ABD or bust, but even then we had a decent chance in the second test except for the stupid runouts & dropping Kumar.

 

I can apply the same logic to lots of greats from the past, or decent newcomers today. Openers this year have had the worst year since decades, if you're counting their worth based on hooping outswingers at Lord's or the pace/uneven bounce of Perth - would you do the same for the next set of players who fail in tough conditions away?

Edited December 30, 2018 by R!TTER

[Pandya_Power]

14 hours ago, putrevus said:

Kohli unlike any Indian captain has raised his level as a batsman too.Did he make mistakes with team selections, yes he did, not selecting Jadeja in Perth was one of them.But unlike other Indian captains he is willing to take chances to win which is most important thing for any captain.

 

I want him to attack more but his batting is so weak , he is afraid to attack more.

 

+1

 

That entreprising nature is the reason for his success more than anything else. 

[mancalledsting]

15 hours ago, velu said:

dada planted the seed

dhoni watered 

kohli and shastri harvesting 

agreed that Dhoni watered...but the only problem was the solution had a yellow/green consistency

[jf1gp_1]

Like Manmohan history will be kinder to Virat the captain. 

As far as aussies go they are never going to field a stronger team that India again cause test cricket is almost dead.

 

[zen]

Kohli is already 11 out of 24 is better than 11 out of 28 

[putrevus]

So you're saying that Aussies saying this is our best chance, without Smith or Warner, to win in Oz are exaggerating? I think we said the same vs England, but Kumar & Bumrah injury did do a number to our chances. SA series was ABD or bust, but even then we had a decent chance in the second test except for the stupid runouts & dropping Kumar.
 
I can apply the same logic to lots of greats from the past, or decent newcomers today. Openers this year have had the worst year since decades, if you're counting their worth based on hooping outswingers at Lord's or the pace/uneven bounce of Perth - would you do the same for the next set of players who fail in tough conditions away?

They said the same thing in 2003-04 when Warne and McGrath were sitting out.and 2011-12 when so called full strength Indian team was facing Aussie attack led by Siddle and Hilfenhaus. That same Aussie attack was dismantled by Cook and company a year earlier.

Openers who stink in four different countries over a year don’t deserve any extended run. I don’t think any other openers in history were this bad. This has been historically bad.

Winning away against strong home teams need lot of things to go right and India lost most of the tosses and I don’t think it was favorite against any home team.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[velu]

4 hours ago, mancalledsting said:

agreed that Dhoni watered...but the only problem was the solution had a yellow/green consistency

 

plants need urea for its proper growth

[rkt.india]

8 hours ago, R!TTER said:

The Aussie turnaround really started with the 86 India tour, with a famous WC in 87 & turned into a real tsunami once they won the Ashes in 89. The ascension to the top in 95 was just a natural progression & they were nearly unbeatable for about 8 years.

 

However there are lots of memorable, unexpected wins in their way to the top - Sydney vs WI 1988(?) then SL 1994, WI 1995 & arguably Pak as well. I doubt they started as favorites or on equal footing in any of those games/series.

 

We are pretty much starting as favorites or strong favorites in each of our away tours. Kohli's real test will be the next WC & then the other tour vs full strength Oz away. He failed the CT test, did about par in SA & below par in England.

 

The other thing that OZ did under Border was develop promising youngsters into ATG of their gen, like Waugh/Mcgrath/Warne/Gilly etc. We won't ever reach the next level unless we develop a core that lasts us the next decade, after Kohli/Pujara retire.

No. We were not favorites in SA and England.

[rkt.india]

1 hour ago, putrevus said:

They said the same thing in 2003-04 when Warne and McGrath were sitting out.and 2011-12 when so called full strength Indian team was facing Aussie attack led by Siddle and Hilfenhaus. That same Aussie attack was dismantled by Cook and company a year earlier.

Openers who stink in four different countries over a year don’t deserve any extended run. I don’t think any other openers in history were this bad. This has been historically bad.

Winning away against strong home teams need lot of things to go right and India lost most of the tosses and I don’t think it was favorite against any home team.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Most teams win overseas when home team is weak.

[R!TTER]

The difference was that we were the better side in 2003/04 PP & umpiring cost us that series. We also were arguably better in SA 2010/11 but Kallis' masterpiece saved them the blushes. Here we about par even with Smith/Warner while you couldn't say the same for much of last decade. I also hate when people bring up McWarne missing, only Mcgrath was missing but Warne couldn't have played due to the drug ban, he escaped lightly given what happens to drug cheats. And if you're using the argument of missing 1 player, which we did every test at home in 2004, then you're not such a great team anyway.

 

2 hours ago, putrevus said:

Winning away against strong home teams need lot of things to go right and India lost most of the tosses and I don’t think it was favorite against any home team.

So if we're not the favorites to win when we're no.1 & the opposition no. 4/5/6 then when are we the favorites? Not to mention SA/England both aren't as strong as they were 4 years back, England arguably so but SA definitely worse off.

[putrevus]

7 hours ago, R!TTER said:

The difference was that we were the better side in 2003/04 PP & umpiring cost us that series. We also were arguably better in SA 2010/11 but Kallis' masterpiece saved them the blushes. Here we about par even with Smith/Warner while you couldn't say the same for much of last decade. I also hate when people bring up McWarne missing, only Mcgrath was missing but Warne couldn't have played due to the drug ban, he escaped lightly given what happens to drug cheats. And if you're using the argument of missing 1 player, which we did every test at home in 2004, then you're not such a great team anyway.

 

So if we're not the favorites to win when we're no.1 & the opposition no. 4/5/6 then when are we the favorites? Not to mention SA/England both aren't as strong as they were 4 years back, England arguably so but SA definitely worse off.

I don't think umpiring was the reason why India didn't win in 2003-04, they just didn't have good enough bowlers. You are talking as if PP's ineffiency problem of other team.India would have won in SA and England if they had better openers.

 

In test cricket there is no prize for draws for teams unable to force a win. Kallis was difference for SA in 2011, just like ADBV was difference for SA this year.

 

Smith and Warner were not missing out due to injuries either, they were missing out due to their cheating scandal too.

 

Beating England in England over 5 test series is very very hard task, they have so much depth and their team becomes multifold strong due too all their allrounders at home.

India is no1 due to winning at home not becuase it is a  great away team. SA bowling attack was one of their best and pitches were so bowling friendly.

If they continue on this path and grow stronger they can become a very good away team too, for that you need more depth in batting and bowling.How can you expect this team to be favorite when you just have one batsman.

[R!TTER]

1 minute ago, putrevus said:

I don't think umpiring was the reason why India didn't win in 2003-04, they just didn't have good enough bowlers. You are talking as if PP's ineffiency problem of other team.India would have won in SA and England if they had better openers.

 

In test cricket there is no prize for draws for teams unable to force a win. Kallis was difference for SA in 2011, just like ADBV was difference for SA this year.

 

Smith and Warner were not missing out due to injuries either, they were missing out due to their cheating scandal too.

 

Beating England in England over 5 test series is very very hard task, they have so much depth and their team becomes multifold strong due too all their allrounders at home.

India is no1 due to winning at home not becuase it is a  great away team. SA bowling attack was one of their best and pitches were so bowling friendly.

If they continue on this path and grow stronger they can become a very good away team too, for that you need more depth in batting and bowling.How can you expect this team to be favorite when you just have one batsman.

We had more than enough runs on the board, I'll blame the multiple chances dropped or umpiring. Anyone who's seen the 4 tests that series will say India was the better team, but Aus did earn the draw.

 

Yeah sure & yet even with them I'll bet the teams would stack up evenly, on these sporting pitches. Without them however we started as favorites.

 

England was an absolute disaster for more reasons than one, but we were in with a chance even till the 4th(?) day of the 4th test when we let Buttler & Curran(?) run away with the series. Ashwin totally failed on the most crucial juncture.

 

Absolutely & that makes the achievement by past teams, with worse bowling & better opposition, even more commendable. We were actually really close to winning the series because of the pitches, do you seriously think our bowlers can outperform SA attack on flat pitches in SA? Everyone here was saying the same thing i.e. sporting pitches give us better chance at winning series, except after the losses it was all blamed on the toss.

 

Who's fault is it? TM & coach who change the squad every game, bar the crucial one which we lost at Rose Bowl?

[putrevus]

19 minutes ago, R!TTER said:

We had more than enough runs on the board, I'll blame the multiple chances dropped or umpiring. Anyone who's seen the 4 tests that series will say India was the better team, but Aus did earn the draw.

 

Yeah sure & yet even with them I'll bet the teams would stack up evenly, on these sporting pitches. Without them however we started as favorites.

 

England was an absolute disaster for more reasons than one, but we were in with a chance even till the 4th(?) day of the 4th test when we let Buttler & Curran(?) run away with the series. Ashwin totally failed on the most crucial juncture.

 

Absolutely & that makes the achievement by past teams, with worse bowling & better opposition, even more commendable. We were actually really close to winning the series because of the pitches, do you seriously think our bowlers can outperform SA attack on flat pitches in SA? Everyone here was saying the same thing i.e. sporting pitches give us better chance at winning series, except after the losses it was all blamed on the toss.

 

Who's fault is it? TM & coach who change the squad every game, bar the crucial one which we lost at Rose Bowl?

Did India win? ANSWER IS NO.How can it be better team when it lost a test after their opener scores 195 and yet they fold for 348 against a dud attack.

 

India did not have better bowling attacks becuase they did not have captains who knew how to create fast bowling attacks. Ishant and Shami played under many captains but they are shiniing under only one.This is best captain India ever had and he will win more matches than any other Indian captain too.

Edited December 31, 2018 by putrevus

[R!TTER]

Aus in Aus is never easy or a dud attack, if that's what Aus fielded then what would you call India with Kumble at the helm - who probably had a worse record than Yasir after 3 tests?

3 minutes ago, putrevus said:

Ishant and Shami played under many captains but they are shiniing under only one.

Yet we have the shining examples of England 1st test, 4th test where captaincy let Eng back in to the game. We'll really see how good this team is under Kohli when Smith/warner return. I don't like bringing down our achievements but you somehow think that this Aus team is comparable to the team we faced back in 2Ks or our achievements against Aus back then are less praiseworthy?

[putrevus]

1 minute ago, R!TTER said:

Aus in Aus is never easy or a dud attack, if that's what Aus fielded then what would you call India with Kumble at the helm - who probably had a worse record than Yasir after 3 tests?

Yet we have the shining examples of England 1st test, 4th test where captaincy let Eng back in to the game. We'll really see how good this team is under Kohli when Smith/warner return. I don't like bringing down our achievements but you somehow think that this Aus team is comparable to the team we faced back in 2Ks or our achievements against Aus back then are less praiseworthy?

What acheivements are you talking about ( Aussie attack was hit me for 4 every over Mcgill. Brad williams, Nathan Bracken, Brett Lee who had no idea where he was bowling and Bichel.The only guy remotely good was Gillespie )There is nothing praise worthy about India winning one lousy test in 2003-04 with our strongest batting lineup and on flattest wickets against weakest bowling lineup.

 

You can discuss shortcomings of a captain till cows come home but he is the best captain India ever had,he will be the reason why India will win more matches away .

 

Kohli did not ask Smith and Warner to cheat and get suspended.

[putrevus]

10 hours ago, rkt.india said:

Most teams win overseas when home team is weak.

Not necessarily true.