Alam_dar Posted September 21, 2019 Share Posted September 21, 2019 My conclusions: (1) "Respect" is not "Right" Don't usurp the basic human rights of women in name of "respecting" them. (2) Don't believe in individual stories that this friend's family is happy and that's friend family is not. There are millions of family where women are staying at home, but they are having nightmares. (3) Grandmother's era is over. Competition is another level. Today you will not get proper job if you don't enter the market at the right time. If only husband was working and wife was 24h house wife, and then something happens to husband (or he looses his job suddenly), then your family is in severe crises, and perhaps out of your house and on the streets and hungry. (4) Uneducated poor women also need work. Their husbands never earn enough for their family. No problem if educated women go to important jobs, while uneducated women take care of cleaning house and cooking and shopping and bringing children home. Family has still enough time from 18:00 till 22:00 for dinner and gossips, while whole day on week-ends and holidays. (5) Today whole world is connected with each other. If your workforce is not in big numbers and cheaper and better educated and better integrated, then others will make you bank-corrupt. You are not living in an isolated system today. If you could accept this reality, then it would be better for you. (6) Human Nature always want a change. I am a man. It is impossible for me to stay 24 hours at home with children. I want some time for me alone, away from family and children. Women are no exception. They are also humans. They also need change. They also need pause from family and children for some hours. (7) If any woman still likes to stay home, and her family situation allows her to do so, then she is totally free to make this choice. (8) If any woman likes to stay with the in-laws in joint family system, then she is totally free to make this choice at her own. riya and beetle 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coffee_rules Posted September 21, 2019 Share Posted September 21, 2019 I think the gist of what @Real McCoy is saying is that Feminists fight for pro-choice, but if a woman or a couple chooses to not work outside and take care of kids for better QOL, they don't like it. She gets pressurized by the society to get out and work sacrificing the QOL. Women should freely choose. Islamists take it further and say Hijab or burkha is also her choice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beetle Posted September 21, 2019 Share Posted September 21, 2019 2 hours ago, Alam_dar said: "Respect" is not "Right" Don't usurp the basic human rights of women in name of "respecting" them. This one gets Alam_dar 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moochad Posted September 21, 2019 Share Posted September 21, 2019 (edited) 23 hours ago, Tibarn said: Conflict Theory 101 Flowchart : Indoctrinate people that everyone is born equal--> It logically follows that if everyone is born equal, any random in-group one defines must be equal with the out-group based on a selected outcome --> when there is an inequality between the in- and out-group (ie out-group performs better than in-group) explain the inequality as based on the out-group discriminating against the in-group --> promote the idea of discrimination by the out-group(oppressor ) on the in-group(victim/oppressed) to create a wedge between two groups --> encourage conflict between the groups, sometimes violent, until there is "equality" between the two groups in that selected measure, something hardly ever actually comes. + add moving the target constantly at the end Also add somewhere, never taking responsibility for your own role in the system, always someone else creates it, always its someone elses fault. Edited September 21, 2019 by Moochad Tibarn 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coffee_rules Posted September 21, 2019 Share Posted September 21, 2019 41 minutes ago, beetle said: This one gets Give an example where rights are taken away by respecting them? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alam_dar Posted September 21, 2019 Share Posted September 21, 2019 (edited) 3 hours ago, coffee_rules said: Give an example where rights are taken away by respecting them? The whole history is full of it. Widows were respected, but their right to marry again was taken away and they had to live their rest of life alone in this name of respect. Yes, they were respected for it to jump into the fire along with their dead husbands too. Yes they are respected if they give away their right to go outside to do that job with makes them happy, but instead of that stay home, stay under the full control of husband, stay under full control of mother-in-law, never oppose their husbands even if they are wrong and at fault. They are respected if they forget about their own life, and only serve the others. Yes, every one want such an obedient wife who does not make demands for her rights. Yes, there may be some women who could sacrifice so much, but there are also women who have their own Dreams as human being and who don't want to give away their dreams, who demand equal sacrifice from husbands and the family as they are sacrificing themselves for the husband and the family. But then these women are no more respected while they are not able to sacrifice ALL of their personality/dreams and while they are demanding equal share in responsibilities from the husbands and his family. In short, traditional India society gave lot of respect to woman, but not enough of rights to her. Religion/Traditions of Society have stipulated a specific MODEL for wife, and every woman has to give away her rights of dreams and fit herself in that specific Model. If she succeeds in it, then she is respected a lot. But if she fails, then she is criticised a lot. Edited September 21, 2019 by Alam_dar coffee_rules, Real McCoy and riya 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coffee_rules Posted September 21, 2019 Share Posted September 21, 2019 38 minutes ago, Alam_dar said: The whole history is full of it. Widows were respected, but their right to marry again was taken away and they had to live their rest of life alone in this name of respect. Yes, they were respected for it to jump into the fire along with their dead husbands too. Yes they are respected if they give away their right to go outside to do that job with makes them happy, but instead of that stay home, stay under the full control of husband, stay under full control of mother-in-law, never oppose their husbands even if they are wrong and at fault. They are respected if they forget about their own life, and only serve the others. Yes, every one want such an obedient wife who does not make demands for this rights and for his life. Yes, there may be some women who could sacrifice so much, but there are also women who have their own Dreams as human being and who don't want to give away their dreams, who demand equal sacrifice from husbands and the family as they are sacrificing themselves for the husband and the family. But then these women are no more respected while they are not able to sacrifice ALL of their personality/dreams and while they are demanding equal share in responsibilities from the husbands and his family. Except for widow re-marriage, all others are rhetoric BS, that happened in every society. It is a product of its times, happened till 50s, even in modern western societies. They are not because of respect. Sanatan dharma's one major drawback is its addressing the rights of widows. Sati was not a prevalent practice as it is made out to be. Vedas or smritis dont talk about sati. It happened in couple I f communities in Rajasthan, when the EIC blew it up to justify colonislism. Real McCoy 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muloghonto Posted September 21, 2019 Share Posted September 21, 2019 12 hours ago, Real McCoy said: My friend is making it work on single income. Eroding of the middle class makes a nation poor. Isn't that a form of slavery It’s what’s happening mate. Your friend may be a higher up engineer in the west but here, these days, you should know that 1 income engineer can barely make ends meet vs in the 90s or 80s where 1 income engineer in the family could easily support his kids, go on vacation and save money for college for kids. Pollack, velu and riya 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alam_dar Posted September 21, 2019 Share Posted September 21, 2019 (edited) 1 hour ago, coffee_rules said: Except for widow re-marriage, all others are rhetoric BS, that happened in every society. It is a product of its times, happened till 50s, even in modern western societies. They are not because of respect. Sanatan dharma's one major drawback is its addressing the rights of widows. Sati was not a prevalent practice as it is made out to be. Vedas or smritis dont talk about sati. It happened in couple I f communities in Rajasthan, when the EIC blew it up to justify colonislism. I am not talking about religion alone, but it is religion + Traditions of society which stipulated a specific model for a woman. And every woman has to fit in this specific model, sacrificing all her dreams. Moreover, if any religion is really Divine, then it should be 100% perfect. If it is making even 0.01% mistake, then it is proof that it is not a divine religion but 100% false man made religion. If widow is not allowed to remarry in Sanatan Dharma, then the case ends with it. Edited September 21, 2019 by Alam_dar riya 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beetle Posted September 22, 2019 Share Posted September 22, 2019 13 hours ago, coffee_rules said: Give an example where rights are taken away by respecting them? If you need to be given example for this...then I say keep your head buried. I have become tired of reading how women in this country are revered as women are worshipped as devis.....everytime atrocities against women comes up. Women are devis ,they are stronger ,they are more patient, they are more sacrificing ....so they can bear anything . dial_100, Alam_dar and riya 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pollack Posted September 22, 2019 Share Posted September 22, 2019 On 9/21/2019 at 9:11 AM, beetle said: If the guy has average salary....find a girl who also works and then both can run their homes with two salaries.Treat her like an equal partner.... Or if you want to go the arranged route...look for girls from poor background and have a simple wedding without dowry... There are plenty of good girls in poor middle glass families ready to marry guys who wants a simple wedding without dowry. Why would parents spend their ife earning and savings and may be go into dept for marrying their daughter to a poor guy ? You are out of touch with reality of current times. What the heck is poor middle class family? A girl from middle class family if chosing arranged marriage route always seem for a groom who is way more educated than her even if she is junior college dropout. And if she is graduate (not engineer or doctor) then someone who is Engineer or doctor is bare minimum. And if she is an engineer or doctor then someone who has done his Master's in USA or phoren is bare minimum. Of course one can always marry someone from a poor family (*not middle class) who can barely meet ends but then the guy will struggle a lot to make a living if he earns an average salary. Real McCoy and velu 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Real McCoy Posted September 22, 2019 Share Posted September 22, 2019 1 hour ago, beetle said: Women are devis ,they are stronger ,they are more patient, they are more sacrificing ....so they can bear anything . Men are devas ,they are stronger ,they are more patient, they are more sacrificing ....so they can bear anything .including constant whining from women Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Real McCoy Posted September 22, 2019 Share Posted September 22, 2019 (edited) 17 hours ago, coffee_rules said: I think the gist of what @Real McCoy is saying is that Feminists fight for pro-choice, but if a woman or a couple chooses to not work outside and take care of kids for better QOL, they don't like it. She gets pressurized by the society to get out and work sacrificing the QOL. Women should freely choose. Islamists take it further and say Hijab or burkha is also her choice. My original post was about how elites used this feminist propaganda to make everyone's life miserable. I agree with your post as well. Feminists don't like it when the woman don't work. Islamists may take it further in the west but in islamic countries barring taliban nutcases have it right when it comes to women. The friend who runs on a single income family is muslim and has a peaceful home atmosphere. I have seen how this feminist bug have destroyed homes (not taking shots at beetle ). Muslims have got this one right. PS - I have also seen husbands who want their wife to work because of greed when the wife doesn't want to. So its not just women. Men can be greedy and stupid too. Edited September 22, 2019 by Real McCoy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Real McCoy Posted September 22, 2019 Share Posted September 22, 2019 11 hours ago, Muloghonto said: It’s what’s happening mate. Your friend may be a higher up engineer in the west but here, these days, you should know that 1 income engineer can barely make ends meet vs in the 90s or 80s where 1 income engineer in the family could easily support his kids, go on vacation and save money for college for kids. That's modern slavery then. That's purely created by feminism. Soon your children will be working early so that elites can get more people to work. 5th grade students are writing public exams now in my state. I feel sorry for this generation of children and future generations of children as well. My friend works in a bank and he draws middle class salary. He is in India not in the West Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coffee_rules Posted September 22, 2019 Share Posted September 22, 2019 (edited) 9 hours ago, beetle said: If you need to be given example for this...then I say keep your head buried. I have become tired of reading how women in this country are revered as women are worshipped as devis.....everytime atrocities against women comes up. Women are devis ,they are stronger ,they are more patient, they are more sacrificing ....so they can bear anything . Is it not true we worship devis? It doesn't mean we worship ordinary women. Our gods are female too. Unlike any other religion. Our culture is responsible for SpaceMoms like situation. If you want to keep your head buried in your sea of tears, so be it. It is a glass half empty / half full thingy. Edited September 22, 2019 by coffee_rules Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beetle Posted September 22, 2019 Share Posted September 22, 2019 11 hours ago, Real McCoy said: lamists may take it further in the west but in islamic countries barring taliban nutcases have it right when it comes to women. The friend who runs on a single income family is muslim and has a peaceful home atmosphere. I have seen how this feminist bug have destroyed homes (not taking shots at beetle ). Muslims have got this one right. Well...that says it all. No need for arguments now. What next..stay in purdah too....find some way to justify that too. Why are guys ashamed of accepting their thoughts are from the dark ages? riya and Mariyam 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mariyam Posted September 22, 2019 Share Posted September 22, 2019 44 minutes ago, beetle said: Well...that says it all. No need for arguments now. What next..stay in purdah too....find some way to justify that too. Why are guys ashamed of accepting their thoughts are from the dark ages? Basically Akbar Allahabadi was lying when he crooned: " Pardah nasheen ko bepardah na kardoon, To to to to, Akbar Mera naam nahi hai" beetle 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alam_dar Posted September 22, 2019 Share Posted September 22, 2019 12 hours ago, Real McCoy said: That's modern slavery then. That's purely created by feminism. Soon your children will be working early so that elites can get more people to work. 5th grade students are writing public exams now in my state. I feel sorry for this generation of children and future generations of children as well. My friend works in a bank and he draws middle class salary. He is in India not in the West Bhai, I wished you could have come out of this individual stories. It may be one Muslim friend of your living peacefully, but there are millions in Pakistan who are suffering badly while their wives are not able to help them financially. Or the wives have to suffer badly at hands of mother-in-law and others. riya, beetle and Mariyam 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muloghonto Posted September 22, 2019 Share Posted September 22, 2019 12 hours ago, Real McCoy said: That's modern slavery then. That's purely created by feminism. Soon your children will be working early so that elites can get more people to work. 5th grade students are writing public exams now in my state. I feel sorry for this generation of children and future generations of children as well. My friend works in a bank and he draws middle class salary. He is in India not in the West It’s got nothing to do with feminism, it’s simply and demand. Same when it happens to India and poor Indians need women to work, it’s feminism .or is it basic supply and demand of skills ?? velu 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dial_100 Posted September 23, 2019 Share Posted September 23, 2019 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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