India should have included atleast 1 tear away bowler in the world cup squad

[express bowling]

Bumrah

Shami

Bhuvi

Saini 

Hardik

 

Would have been a nice group of quicks for the WC.

 

Pace, bounce, accuracy, swing, seam, yorkers, slower balls ... all elements would have been be present.

 

It is a long tournament and 4 specialist quicks would have been helpful.

[rkt.india]

3 hours ago, vvvslaxman said:

You have posted one video out of 70 odd innings. Deepak Chahar has 8 for 10 in domestic. All i am saying is so far even in this IPL he didn't appear to be someone like Bumrah when he started his career or even Ishant when he started his career. Closest would be Varun Aaron or Umesh. Don't mind him being the 4th seamer. But given a choice i would take a chance with Shreyas Gopal.

Bumrah when started his career had already played 4 years of IPL. Did Ishant start his career in IPL? Also, I don't get why you are judging him based on t20 games in IPL comparing with Ishant and Bumrah's non-IPL games. Based on this IPL, Kuldeep should not be playing WC. ODI and T20s are two completely different formats.

 

How many videos in posted doesn't matter. What matters is he can run through teams 

 

Regarding Chahar, he has an FC bowling average of 35. Even Binny had a fluke spell against BD. 

Edited May 1, 2019 by rkt.india

[vvvslaxman]

2 hours ago, rkt.india said:

Bumrah when started his career had already played 4 years of IPL. Did Ishant start his career in IPL? Also, I don't get why you are judging him based on t20 games in IPL comparing with Ishant and Bumrah's non-IPL games. Based on this IPL, Kuldeep should not be playing WC. ODI and T20s are two completely different formats.

 

How many videos in posted doesn't matter. What matters is he can run through teams 

 

Regarding Chahar, he has an FC bowling average of 35. Even Binny had a fluke spell against BD. 

All i am questioning is the tag "tearaway". His strike rate of 60 doesn't really earn him that. Umesh 52, even Irfan has 54 at first class level. This is more like spinners range.

[jf1gp_1]

Am sure Bumrah would still be the quickest we have. Now even if someone does beat him purely in terms of avg speed in ODI game i doubt it would be by much. 

[putrevus]

8 hours ago, rkt.india said:

It's not about age but fitness and experience at the top level. mitch Johnson debuted at 25-26, still had 7-8 good years of International cricket and is one of Australian legends.

I am not denying that, but do you think he is better than the three selected? Does he have any great xfactor which other three don't have? The answer is no.Will he perform to their level I think so.If he was a leftie he would have made the team long time back.

[putrevus]

9 hours ago, Suhaan said:

A fast bowler starts slowing down from 30-31,Saini is 25+ so he has 5-6 peak years ahead  him

Yes he should have been drafted into the team this year itself,but still has more to offer

in place who he should have been drafted??? The pace attack we had in recent tours has been historically good.Who is he going to replace??

[Suhaan]

11 minutes ago, putrevus said:

in place who he should have been drafted??? The pace attack we had in recent tours has been historically good.Who is he going to replace??

I would have liked him to play in home tests against Windies ,iirc BD did visit us where he was in the squad but wasn't played

An option like him will always serve us good,in case of injury,bad form we  will surely not be that depleted 

[putrevus]

8 minutes ago, Suhaan said:

I would have liked him to play in home tests against Windies ,iirc BD did visit us where he was in the squad but wasn't played

An option like him will always serve us good,in case of injury,bad form we  will surely not be that depleted 

Should he have played that test in place of that guy who got injured in first over answer is yes.Second you don't rest your first selections against weaker teams denying them chances to pad their stats after they have done all the hard yards against tougher teams.

 

But that doesn't make Saini unlucky to have missed world cup boat.He is simply not that better than either the main test bowlers or main odi bowlers.Should he get a chance if there is an injury sure.

Edited May 1, 2019 by putrevus

[Tibarn]

Bumrah and Shami are pretty much top tier speedsters 

 

[rkt.india]

32 minutes ago, putrevus said:

Should he have played that test in place of that guy who got injured in first over answer is yes.Second you don't rest your first selections against weaker teams denying them chances to pad their stats after they have done all the hard yards against tougher teams.

 

But that doesn't make Saini unlucky to have missed world cup boat.He is simply not that better than either the main test bowlers or main odi bowlers.Should he get a chance if there is an injury sure.

he should have been picked as 4th seamer in WC squad.  No team is going with just 3 specialist bowlers.  Early summer conditions are going to help pacers.

[putrevus]

Just now, rkt.india said:

he should have been picked as 4th seamer in WC squad.  No team is going with just 3 specialist bowlers.  Early summer conditions are going to help pacers.

But they didn't select 4 pacers.So he missed out rightly so.

[Suhaan]

23 minutes ago, putrevus said:

Should he have played that test in place of that guy who got injured in first over answer is yes.Second you don't rest your first selections against weaker teams denying them chances to pad their stats after they have done all the hard yards against tougher teams.

 

But that doesn't make Saini unlucky to have missed world cup boat.He is simply not that better than either the main test bowlers or main odi bowlers.Should he get a chance if there is an injury sure.

Teams across the world have rested their main bowler(s) or in other words have rotated players to save their players from burnout,im suggesting bowlers like him should have been part of rotation policy ,it could have been better for the team in the longer run

 not pitting him against our main strike bowlers,he could have been a better reserve bowler than the likes of kaul,thakur,chahar etc (who knows he could have become an integral part,u won't know about them unless you play them)to whom they have given ample opportunities but none have performed as was expected from them

[putrevus]

1 minute ago, Suhaan said:

Teams across the world have rested their main bowler(s) or in other words have rotated players to save their players from burnout,im suggesting bowlers like him should have been part of rotation policy ,it could have been better for the team in the longer run

 not pitting him against our main strike bowlers,he could have been a better reserve bowler than the likes of kaul,thakur,chahar etc (who knows he could have become an integral part,u won't know about them unless you play them)to whom they have given ample opportunities but none have performed as was expected from them

They automatically rest one pacer when they play at home and they gave Umesh Yadav a chance who is not a bad bowler in Indian conditions.I think they wanted him to play regularly and not sit on bench like others you have mentioned as he is better than all of them.

[rkt.india]

1 hour ago, vvvslaxman said:

All i am questioning is the tag "tearaway". His strike rate of 60 doesn't really earn him that. Umesh 52, even Irfan has 54 at first class level. This is more like spinners range.

what has tearaway to do with SR?  Tearaway means pace.  Also have you seen the pitches in Delhi FSK and at Palam where he plays for Delhi and ball barely rises shin height?  These stats have certainly declined recently as he played for India A where he could not pick as many wickets he would have liked despite bowling well but then Siraj picked 40 plus wickets in those 5-6 India A games averaging in teens but look at him in this IPL.  If we exclude the last one year, i think he was averaging around 25 and SR around 50-55.  Stats alone are no criteria.  Example Hazlewood who was averaging 30 after 30 FC games picking just one fifer when he made his Aussie test debut.  Also, he was not as quick as now before.  After modification in bowling action, he has gained 10-15 KPH of pace.  He started with bowling around 128-137K between 2012-2015 period.  Then he improved his pace as he improved his action and bowled up to 145 in 2017-18 FC season.  Now, he is bowling up to 150-152 almost every game.  2016-17 Aus tour to India warmup game was the first time we saw him bowl real quick when he bounced out Warner.   It also shows the constant improvement he has had.

[rkt.india]

16 minutes ago, Tibarn said:

Bumrah and Shami are pretty much top tier speedsters 

 

none of the two became top tier overnight.  Shami debuted in 2012 and now in last 1-2 years, he has become the real top tier.  None will become top tier by just playing Indian domestic cricket.

[rkt.india]

49 minutes ago, putrevus said:

Should he have played that test in place of that guy who got injured in first over answer is yes.Second you don't rest your first selections against weaker teams denying them chances to pad their stats after they have done all the hard yards against tougher teams.

 

how would you build bench strength if your don't give chances.  If you dont give chances, you will never know what new guys can do.  This is the only way to make better players, not being happy with status quo.

[putrevus]

1 minute ago, rkt.india said:

how would you build bench strength if your don't give chances.  If you dont give chances, you will never know what new guys can do.  This is the only way to make better players, not being happy with status quo.

He is being given chances , I don't think he is off their radar.He will get his chances in Indian colors too.

[cricketpitch]

16 hours ago, bahubali said:

Just because Aaron and Umesh dint come good we should never try any fast bowlers ever. What kind of cliche pathetic logic is this. 

I am not saying don't try. I am saying don't try them in a tournament like the world cup. World Cup is not the place to try out uncapped players unless they have done phenomenal things at the domestic level. I don't think any of these IPL bowlers have done that. You just can't throw names and put them in a squad for a tournament like WC because England is thinking of taking Archer etc. Give Prasidh, Saini, Mavi, Nagarkoti etc enough chances after the WC, so that they will be ready for 2023 or even for the T20 WC next year in Australia. Just saying things like we have 145+ bowlers, so selectors should have put them in the WC squad is daft. From what I have seen of them, they are not ready yet to take on that pressure.

[vvvslaxman]

10 hours ago, rkt.india said:

what has tearaway to do with SR?  Tearaway means pace.  Also have you seen the pitches in Delhi FSK and at Palam where he plays for Delhi and ball barely rises shin height?  These stats have certainly declined recently as he played for India A where he could not pick as many wickets he would have liked despite bowling well but then Siraj picked 40 plus wickets in those 5-6 India A games averaging in teens but look at him in this IPL.  If we exclude the last one year, i think he was averaging around 25 and SR around 50-55.  Stats alone are no criteria.  Example Hazlewood who was averaging 30 after 30 FC games picking just one fifer when he made his Aussie test debut.  Also, he was not as quick as now before.  After modification in bowling action, he has gained 10-15 KPH of pace.  He started with bowling around 128-137K between 2012-2015 period.  Then he improved his pace as he improved his action and bowled up to 145 in 2017-18 FC season.  Now, he is bowling up to 150-152 almost every game.  2016-17 Aus tour to India warmup game was the first time we saw him bowl real quick when he bounced out Warner.   It also shows the constant improvement he has had.

Idea of having tearaway pacer is to intimidate opposition by blowing them away. India's hidden reason to bat second in WC final 2003 was the fear factor that Brett Lee had at that time.  Being an X factor. Shane Bond/Brett Lee/Mitch Starc/Akhtar. They could suck most of the innings. Suddenly they can come back blow away people even with full tosses.  Saini is not even close to that. Nobody is going to be quacking in their boots at the prospect of facing Saini.

[Vilander]

3 hours ago, vvvslaxman said:

Shane Bond/Brett Lee/Mitch Starc/Akhtar

All  of them were around 150-155 in their quickest spells, except Bond who was a tad bit slower and Starc is slower most of the time but can hit those speeds. I would say Akhtar and Lee benefited by doubtful speed guns in 2003. Saini in terms of eminence currently is only clearly slower than Starc and Rabada ( that we are seeing in IPL). In preset day fast bowling scene, Saini will trouble batsmen with his speed alone, which neither Bumrah or Shami can do consistently.