Canadian Sikh Soldiers March in Khalsa Day Parade

[Muloghonto]

35 minutes ago, Under_Score said:

The Corrupt Hindustan leader's promises & broken promises.

Promises Made to the Sikhs

In response to the inspiring sacrifices of the Sikhs, the leaders of the Hindu-dominated Congress party promised them due consideration in a free and reconstituted Indian republic. At the 1929 session of the Congress party held in Lahore the traditional Sikh colour of saffron was incorporated into the Indian national flag and the resolution made: “The Congress assures the Sikhs... that no solution thereof in any future Constitution will be acceptable to the Congress that does not give them (Sikhs) full satisfaction.”

On March 16, 1931, Mahatma Gandhi was asked at Sisganj Gurdwara in Delhi what assurances he might offer the Sikhs that the resolution of 1929 would be enacted by his Indian National Congress. His reply, published in Young India of March 19, 1931, reads: “Sardar Madhusudan Singh has asked for an assurance that the Congress would do nothing that might alienate sympathies of the Sikhs from Congress. Well, Congress in its Lahore session passed a resolution that it would not enter into or be a party to any settlement with regard to the minority question that failed to satisfy any of the minorities concerned. What further assurances the Congress can give to you Sikhs, I fail to understand. I ask you to accept my word and the resolution of the Congress that it will not betray a single individual much less a community. It is ever thinks of doing so, it will only hasten its doom... Let God be witness of the bond that binds me and the Congress with you.”

In July, 1946, while the British cabinet was debating the issue of giving the Sikhs their due in the coming political settlement, Jawaharlal Nehru declared at the Congress meeting held in Kolkata: “The brave Sikhs of Punjab are entitled to special consideration. I see nothing wrong in an area and a setup in the North wherein the Sikhs can also experience the glow of freedom.”

On January 5, 1947, the Congress Committee adopted another resolution that declared: “By British Cabinet Scheme of May 16, 1946, the rights of the Sikhs should not be jeopardized.”

In June, 1947, Hindu and Sikh members of the Punjab Legislative Assembly unanimously passed a resolution that: “in the divided Punjab, special constitutional means are imperative to meet the just aspirations and rights of the Sikhs.” ^[6]

The Proposed Constitution of States in Independent India

As early as 1920, at the Nagpur session of the Congress, it was decided to reconstitute India on the basis of its linguistic cultural groupings – Bengal for Bengali-speakers, Tamil Nadu for Tamil-speakers, Punjab for Punjabi-speakers, and so on. This became the official Congress policy and was confirmed in every session held in 1921, 1927, 1928, 1937, 1938, and 1945-46.

Moreover, these states were promised considerable autonomy within a federal system. In Nehru's words from the first session of the Constituent Assembly, held on December 9, 1946: “...the various territories of the Union of India would be autonomous units with residuary powers.”

As for Punjab, to compensate for the loss of its capital of Lahore, the Indian half of the bifurcated state was awarded a new model capital to be built and named Chandigarh. ^[7]

Promises Broken

When the Constitution Act of India was declared in 1950, it declared Sikhism to be “a sect of Hinduism” and offered no safeguards to the Sikh community. Both Sikh members of the Constituent Assembly refused to sign the document. They declared vehemently that: “The Sikhs do not accept this Constitution. The Sikhs reject this Constitution Act.”

In subsequent years, all the personal laws of the Sikhs were abolished and replaced by Hindu statutes, such as the “Hindu Marriage Act 1955,” the “Hindu Succession Act 1956,” etc.

When in 1954 Jawaharlal Nehru was reminded of the solemn promises made to Sikhs and other minorities by the Hindu-dominated Congress party, he replied, “The circumstances have now changed.” ^[8]

The Struggle for a Punjabi-speaking State

With the Congress party turned against them, Sikhs began to take action to realize the promise of a Punjabi-speaking state. In 1952, the Congress lost its first election in the young country's history in the Patiala and East Punjab States Union (PEPSU). In PEPSU, a jurisdiction with a slim Sikh majority, the Shiromani Akali Dal (Akali party) of the Sikhs formed a coalition government.

After years of fruitless talks with Congress representatives in the capital of New Delhi, Sikhs filled the streets in nonviolent protests to pressure the government in 1955 and 1956. Conventions, protests, hunger fasts, and more fruitless negotiations followed. It was not until 1966, after Punjabi farmers had shown remarkable mettle and patriotism in helping repulse the Pakistani army during the war that year, that the national government agreed to create a Punjabi-speaking state.^[9]

The award however left a number of issues unresolved. In granting a Punjabi-speaking jurisdiction, the government also broke the state into three: Haryana in the east, Himachal Pradesh in the north, and Punjab (India) in the south-west. Chandigarh, the capital specially built to serve Punjab, was to be shared with Haryana. The allocation of river waters flowing through the Punjab to neighbouring states also remained a point of contention.^[10]

 

LOL Sikhpedia....a biassed, anti-Indian site funded by ISI agents used only by foreign Sikhs who's Gurdwaras are under the payroll of ISI masters.

 

First off, the autonomy promised was INORDER TO PREVENT THE CREATION OF PAKISTAN - where the 'western states', aka Pakistan would remain in a loose confederation along with a loose confederation of the other states. This idea instantly went out of the table when the Muslim League rejected the loose confederation and wanted a new nation. 

 

Secondly, the autonomy status was to be given to ALL states due to the above-mentioned point, but was denied to ALL states because the abovementioned point failed to keep India united. So why are only SOME Sikh Punjabis butthurt over it ? What gives you special status in rest of India ? 

Thirdly, MOST of the Sikhs are happy in the arrangement, which is why MOST of the Sikhs are loyal to India and not ahsan faramosh like the foreign nikamma Sikhs. 

 

Fourthly, the Sikh demands for a Punjabi speaking state was granted by 1980. Therefore, Bhindranwale had ZERO cause at that point. 

[Ranvir]

10 hours ago, coffee_rules said:

That is why these idiots voted for the same COngressi who killed, some kind of a stockholm syndrome! When Hindus voted out INC enmasse, the only congress MPs north of Mumbai is in Punjab.

In case you didn't know Indira Gandhi died 35 years ago. The drugs situation of Punjab is very bad and is linked to the Badal family who are the head of the Akali Dal party. The people of Punjab want to get rid of the drugs menace and hence they voted for Congress. Also Punjab is less than 60% Sikh. So you can throw your Stockholm syndrome theory in the bin where it belongs.

[Ranvir]

7 hours ago, Muloghonto said:

LOL Sikhpedia....a biassed, anti-Indian site funded by ISI agents used only by foreign Sikhs who's Gurdwaras are under the payroll of ISI masters.

 

First off, the autonomy promised was INORDER TO PREVENT THE CREATION OF PAKISTAN - where the 'western states', aka Pakistan would remain in a loose confederation along with a loose confederation of the other states. This idea instantly went out of the table when the Muslim League rejected the loose confederation and wanted a new nation. 

 

Secondly, the autonomy status was to be given to ALL states due to the above-mentioned point, but was denied to ALL states because the abovementioned point failed to keep India united. So why are only SOME Sikh Punjabis butthurt over it ? What gives you special status in rest of India ? 

Thirdly, MOST of the Sikhs are happy in the arrangement, which is why MOST of the Sikhs are loyal to India and not ahsan faramosh like the foreign nikamma Sikhs. 

 

Fourthly, the Sikh demands for a Punjabi speaking state was granted by 1980. Therefore, Bhindranwale had ZERO cause at that point. 

Everything is ISI to you. You're worse than a Pakistan caanspiracy theorist. You live in a very black and white world, to put it bluntly you are a simpleton.

 

Also Sikhs were offered Khalistan by the British but chose not take it, that was not offered to other states.

[Real McCoy]

@Ranvir why do you indulge this typing match with mulo. He is most likely an "intellectual" in the lunatic asylum. He got a beatdown from a new poster. I forget his username. @Under_Score knows

Edited June 12, 2019 by Real McCoy

[Ranvir]

3 hours ago, Real McCoy said:

@Ranvir why do you indulge this typing match with mulo. He is most likely an "intellectual" in the lunatic asylum. He got a beatdown from a new poster. I forget his username. @Under_Score knows

I like to think of it as giving some meaning to his life. After all it makes him trawl through the internet for hours to look for obscure article.

[Singh bling]

9 hours ago, Ranvir said:

Also Sikhs were offered Khalistan by the British but chose not take it, that was not offered to other states.

This is a myth. I tried to search for source of this but never found anything regarding this. 

[donkey]

17 hours ago, Muloghonto said:

LOL Sikhpedia....a biassed, anti-Indian site funded by ISI agents used only by foreign Sikhs who's Gurdwaras are under the payroll of ISI masters.

Unfortunately a whole NRI Sikh generation has been brainwashed through distorted history. Where Hindi/Hindus are portrayed in negative light and any shortcomings of Punjabi/Sikh diaspora is blamed on Indian government. These false assertions have gone unchallenged for far too long (until internet age) and have been established as facts among khalistani sympathizers.

 

Just last year, one of Canada's federal party leader, Jagmeet Singh, refused to denounce Air India bomber during a TV interview. Because the general consensus among Canadian sikhs is that the bombing was carried out by Indian intelligence to derail khalistan movement. 

[Muloghonto]

15 hours ago, Ranvir said:

Everything is ISI to you. You're worse than a Pakistan caanspiracy theorist. You live in a very black and white world, to put it bluntly you are a simpleton.

You idiot, Bhindranwale was found dead with AK-47 clones and MG-3s. One is standard issue in Northern Lights infantry + manufactured in Khyber agency region, the other is standard issue Pakistani machine gun. There are photos of this, verified by independent journos. 

15 hours ago, Ranvir said:

Also Sikhs were offered Khalistan by the British but chose not take it, that was not offered to other states.

Nonsense. This is a common extremist-Sikh narrative that even most moderate Sikhs refute ( scholars as well).  And even if they were, so what ? This does not make the Punjabis or Sikhs any special compared to any other religion or ethnicity in India to deserve special consideration. Stop being victim pu$$ies over extremist propaganda. 

[Muloghonto]

5 hours ago, donkey said:

Unfortunately a whole NRI Sikh generation has been brainwashed through distorted history. Where Hindi/Hindus are portrayed in negative light and any shortcomings of Punjabi/Sikh diaspora is blamed on Indian government. These false assertions have gone unchallenged for far too long (until internet age) and have been established as facts among khalistani sympathizers.

 

Just last year, one of Canada's federal party leader, Jagmeet Singh, refused to denounce Air India bomber during a TV interview. Because the general consensus among Canadian sikhs is that the bombing was carried out by Indian intelligence to derail khalistan movement. 

Very well said. The Sikhs in Canada + UK are in for a rude awakening, because their brainwashing is being exposed slowly but steadily by the other Indians and moderate ones amongst them. Like Ujjwal Dossanj, a moderate Sikh-Canadian politician, who got death theats against him for saying Air India bombing suspects should be arrested and not let go on a botched investigation technicality.

 

If only Indian intelligence was good enough to conduct such drastic & deadly operations against Canadian Citizens, in Canada, in pre-internet age, a hallowed 'Five eyes' member, then Mossad would've been training its agents in India and Russia + China + Pakistan would've been our b!tch for 40+ years.

[coffee_rules]

15 hours ago, Under_Score said:

Like I have said before, I have no hatred against India but will not shy away from mentioning criminal activates, Back-stabbing, Treacheries and dirty politics of Kangress party done against Sikhs since 1947. Sikh Terrorism started due to broken promises to Sikhs by Kangress before Independence which I have already mentioned in my previous post.  I wouldn't have been posting here on ICF if I was supporting the movement of Khalistan, to this day in my life I have not visited any Khalistani website nor I want to, I don't have time for all that.

These have been proved to be Kaanspiracy theories of Lahori logic fame.  There was no value in Sikh resentment other than this sense of entitlement. It was mainly fervor-ed by religious sentimental movements started by militant "sants".  You were not criticizing Kaangress only, you were putting down India and yoour comments were of sedition in nature.  

Quote

Khalistan is a lost cause, was only possible during partition, The Vaisaikhi day parade anti-India speeches & Khalistani banners is a routine normal stuff every year, people come...have a good time meeting other people & enjoying tasty variety food at so many different stalls  & leave, no one even bothers to talk about it the next day.

You can't slip it under the rug as some routine stuff when lives have been lost because of that movement. Any support to that movement should be culled.

Quote

It's like the Kannada Rajyotsava Day speeches that used to happen a while ago by some local MPs in B'lore towards all the outsiders who had moved & settled down in B'lore. Local people frustration vented for that day & business as usual the next day. I have heard some really angry speeches, they also sounded hilarious since nick names were used to address people from different states.

False equivalence. Nobody blew airplanes and killed people in the name of a Kannada cause. 

Edited June 13, 2019 by coffee_rules

[coffee_rules]

24 minutes ago, Under_Score said:

You conveniently decided to ignore reply to 1984 Mass Genocide post which even the successive India governments after Kangress lost the 1989 Elections ignored for whatever political reasons. I have never said blowing Air India plane was good, also It happened after the mass genocide.

I point out that the Khalsa/Khalistan terrorism had started in early 80s-late 70s, with religious sermons from Sects like Bhindranwale's who was given a religious title - 'Sant'. You blame that on Congress to build up Bindranwale and absolve him of the crimes he committed after going rogue on Congress and Akal Takth and promises made to a bunch of Sikhs by JN before 1947. Well, promises were made to all for gaining support  for Independence struggle, not all did start a separatist movement after independence. Not even the 1984 events (Operation Blue Star, IG assassination, and Sikh "genocide") did it stop the Khalistan militants to take refuge in the Golden temple and they had to be flushed out (Operation Black Diamond - Read the Ajit Doval story in 1988) again and again. This movement should not be supported at any cost and it is funded by ISI, it has clearly been proven. Kanedian Sikhs supporting it in the same 1984 riots are blissfully ignorant that Pakistan wants this to happen.  Make peace, fight it in courts (I cited Sajjan Kumar and Tytler) and justice will be served.  You will not get any support from the rest of the world if you keep clapping to a few speeches and garlinding Bhindranwale in gurdwaras.

24 minutes ago, Under_Score said:

For people like you, lives of 250 innocent Hindus killed in Air India tragedy is more important than 3000 plus innocent Sikhs killed by the then Central Government of India.

Yeah right, I never said I don't care for the Sikh genocide. But read this from Wiki. Before 1984 events, 350 killed in 6 months alone in 1984. It is not something we should call it "routine" stuff and wash it away. There were targetted killings from Bhindranwale gangs. This is not something we should forget.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Punjab_insurgency#Militancy

 

Quote

According to Human Rights Watch in the beginning on the 1980s, Sikh separatists in Punjab attacked non-Sikhs in the state.^[39] In October 1983, Sikh militants stopped a bus and shot six Hindu passengers. On the same day, in another location a group of militants killed two officials during an attack on a train.^[12]:174 Trains were attacked and people were shot after being pulled from buses.

The Congress(I)-led Central Government dismissed its own Punjab's government, declaring a state of emergency, and imposed the President's Rule in the state. During the five months preceding Operation Blue Star, from 1 January 1984 to 3 June 1984, 298 people had been killed in various violent incidents across Punjab. In five days preceding the Operation, 48 people had been killed in the violence.^[12]:175

24 minutes ago, Under_Score said:

Also the B'lore reference has nothing to do with BS you are trying to twist & spout, I was just telling that NO ONE takes the parade speeches seriously, Even the local recently elected Premier was also present. 

It is not just parades alright. There is enough veneration among some in Gurdwaras in UK/US and Kaneda. The next PMJagmeet Singh  has gone ahead and refused to call the Kanishka bomber a terrorist. He says he was framed and not enough evidence is there, where the investigation has sufficient evidence of his involvement in the bombing. 

[coffee_rules]

3 hours ago, Under_Score said:

@coffee_rules do all the math you want.....Genocide resulted in 10X more killings. There is no end to this discussion. 

 

IOW, you don't have any facts to back it. LTTE/Khalistanis killed many SLans/Indians and innocent civilians/foreigners, but Buddhist SLans/Kangressi Hindus killed a lot more and cleansed the terrorists along with colateral damage. Do you blame the SLans/Indians or LTTE/Khalistanis for the crisis? It was started by Eelam Tigers/Khalistani warriors. See, how it works.

[Haarkarjeetgaye]

You guys are still at war

 

Blaming the entire Canadian Sikh community for the one odd incident here and there is unfair.

You have stayed there @Muloghonto

what have you seen to make it so bitter.

Canada is very sensitive to any religious event.

We can also go there and make Akhand Bharat statements, hardly anyone will bother there while the subcontinent countries will make a lot of noise.

 

They take it as something religious for the respective community. How should it matter to them as long as there is no violence. 

 

[Real McCoy]

6 hours ago, coffee_rules said:

IOW, you don't have any facts to back it. LTTE/Khalistanis killed many SLans/Indians and innocent civilians/foreigners, but Buddhist SLans/Kangressi Hindus killed a lot more and cleansed the terrorists along with colateral damage. Do you blame the SLans/Indians or LTTE/Khalistanis for the crisis? It was started by Eelam Tigers/Khalistani warriors. See, how it works.

And you have the facts? LTTE/Khalistanis killed so many people but so did the governments of India and SL at that time. Who started it is a moot point if you are an adult. Most probably its usually the politicians and their govts who are at fault. And govts are expected to be better than terrorists. You just throw in a word "collateral damage" casually. If you are one of those people related to those who suffered "collateral damage", you wouldn't be so nonchalant about it. 

 

You are a Kannadiga living in a western country in the 21st century. How can you say for sure that SL Tamils and Sikhs from the 80s are at fault when you were not present there and then. You are merely relying on sources provided by the govts of these countries. I'll let you in on a secret. Govts lie....a lot. That's called propaganda. Not so long ago, western countries were severely racist against Indians and other races. You should be thankful that you live in this era and country where they are willing to learn from their mistakes.

[Muloghonto]

16 hours ago, Real McCoy said:

And you have the facts? LTTE/Khalistanis killed so many people but so did the governments of India and SL at that time. Who started it is a moot point if you are an adult. Most probably its usually the politicians and their govts who are at fault. And govts are expected to be better than terrorists. You just throw in a word "collateral damage" casually. If you are one of those people related to those who suffered "collateral damage", you wouldn't be so nonchalant about it. 

 

You are a Kannadiga living in a western country in the 21st century. How can you say for sure that SL Tamils and Sikhs from the 80s are at fault when you were not present there and then. You are merely relying on sources provided by the govts of these countries. I'll let you in on a secret. Govts lie....a lot. That's called propaganda. Not so long ago, western countries were severely racist against Indians and other races. You should be thankful that you live in this era and country where they are willing to learn from their mistakes.

Independent reporters say hello. And their verdict is against Khalistanis or LTTE. NIce try at terror justification and exposing your anti-India stance but your propaganda is easy to refute by neutral sources. 

[Real McCoy]

7 hours ago, Muloghonto said:

Independent reporters say hello. And their verdict is against Khalistanis or LTTE. NIce try at terror justification and exposing your anti-India stance but your propaganda is easy to refute by neutral sources. 

LOL go back to debating school. You received masters in typewriting skills but you are a noob at critical thinking and history. @vice in his short time here has beaten you black and blue. I never said Khalistanis or LTTE are not terrorist units. Go back and read. I said SL and Indian govt killed more people than what they show. I know all of a sudden you're pro-BJP now but you can't "anti-Indian" everybody who shares a different point of view, much less from Canada

 

Also which independent reporters. There are no such thing as independent reporting. Every news article has some bias. It takes time and money to do it. Whoever pays them will pick the tune. If you seriously meant it, you would have provided an actual source. Instead I expect a long winded article from you criticizing every little point.

[Muloghonto]

4 hours ago, Real McCoy said:

LOL go back to debating school. You received masters in typewriting skills but you are a noob at critical thinking and history. @vice in his short time here has beaten you black and blue. I never said Khalistanis or LTTE are not terrorist units. Go back and read. I said SL and Indian govt killed more people than what they show. I know all of a sudden you're pro-BJP now but you can't "anti-Indian" everybody who shares a different point of view, much less from Canada

 

Also which independent reporters. There are no such thing as independent reporting. Every news article has some bias. It takes time and money to do it. Whoever pays them will pick the tune. If you seriously meant it, you would have provided an actual source. Instead I expect a long winded article from you criticizing every little point.

BBC's mark Tully says hello. Lol at that noob's Punjabi pride rant constituting beatings. But I guess you got an axe to grind.

[Haarkarjeetgaye]

I hope @Muloghonto and @Under_Score

are not the same person with different id. MPD is a common problem on ICF it seems 

 

 

 

[Haarkarjeetgaye]

1 minute ago, Under_Score said:

LOL..are you serious dude? please don't insult me 

Well, I have been multiple times tied to some random id by some posters. Seems it happens a lot on ICF. Same guy with different id’s. 

 

 

[beetle]

31 minutes ago, Haarkarjeetgaye said:

I hope @Muloghonto and @Under_Score

are not the same person with different id. MPD is a common problem on ICF it seems 

 

 

 

More likey you and underscore are same people different id...