Is Shami already an Indian fast bowling legend or fast becoming one? What does stats say!

[Stuge]

[express bowling]

 Shami, along with Bumrah, have the widest range of skills I have ever seen from an Indian pacer.

 

High Pace

Bounce

Accuracy

Beautiful seam position 

Seam movement both ways

Reverse swing 

Some conventional swing when conditions are helpful

Hostile bouncers

Deadly yorkers

Slower balls 

Sustaining pace in test matches

 

 

The only thing missing was fitness. 

Shami 2.0, starting tour of Australia 2018-19, has rectified this too.

 

 

Edited June 28, 2019 by express bowling

[sage]

Shami lacks the work horse factor that ATGs like Peter Siddle and Ishant Sharma have

[Nikola]

2 hours ago, New guy said:

Bhuvi was playing equally well so why is that so unbelievable? And to me it's equally unbelievable that with bhuvis test record shami is selected a head of him in tests. Don't see you complaining then 

Only time bhuvi is better than shami in tests is on green top. He sadly missed test series vs england due to injury where he would have gotten chance ahead of shami but in any other conditions shami will be first choice anyday.

[N!L€$H]

One of Shami wicket In his hatrick

 

 

 

 

 

[N!L€$H]

[N!L€$H]

 

Edited June 28, 2019 by N!L€$H

[Texan]

17 hours ago, Nikola said:

He needs to work on his test bowling. In odis surely 2nd best after bumrah in our odi history.

You forgot Kapildev?

[Trichromatic]

1 hour ago, Texan said:

You forgot Kapildev?

in ODIs?

[rkt.india]

8 hours ago, maniac said:

Can't bat in LOIs

[rkt.india]

8 hours ago, Pollack said:

I troll voted you for the bold. 

Look nothing against the guy. Hardworking and has skills but his stats are thoroughly mediocre. I mean very very mediocre for having played so many International matches. I am hearing from last 3 years about how bhuvi has changed and he will improve his stats but  I bet if you actually filter it for last 3 years they would be similar or even worse.

His stats have improved from 39 to 35 in last one year, iirc.

[rkt.india]

2 hours ago, Texan said:

You forgot Kapildev?

Kapil wasn't that good in ODIs.

[vvvslaxman]

That ball he brings back off the seam to right handers is stunning. When he is in rhythm he is going to be a handful with old and new ball. He is too quick for the sloggers.

[rkt.india]

8 hours ago, New guy said:

These stats worshipers go missing whenever bhuvis tests records are mentioned. See I would agree with you if you were not such an absolute hypocrite when it comes to cherry picking stats. If you want to blindly go by stats bhuvi should be picked ahead of Shami in every single test match. Or else stop talking about stats 

Bhuvi takes 3 wickets per test, Shami 3.6 wickets per test how is Bhuvi better n Bhuvi has a better average because he is more economical or better hasn't played much on Indian pattas. If we go by same wickets per test ratio. Bhuvi will have 120 wickets in 40 tests that's very much like Ishant Sharma. Shami has 144.

Edited June 29, 2019 by rkt.india

[rkt.india]

5 hours ago, N!L€$H said:

 

Bowling fitness isn't about having six packs.

[Texan]

35 minutes ago, rkt.india said:

Kapil wasn't that good in ODIs.

ER of 3.7, avg of 27. Most of it with not much support from the other end. Those are fabulous figures. 

[Stuge]

8 hours ago, sage said:

Shami lacks the work horse factor that ATGs like Peter Siddle and Ishant Sharma have

he is 35  years old 

[rkt.india]

2 hours ago, Texan said:

ER of 3.7, avg of 27. Most of it with not much support from the other end. Those are fabulous figures. 

Average isnt the right way to judge 70s-80s bowlers because scoring rate were slow so even if they were not taking many wickets, their average stayed respectable.  If some bowler today has same number of wickets but goes for 4.7 instead of 3.7 rpo, his average will shot up to 34.  Maintaining 25 or less average in today's cricket is one of the most difficult task for a bowler.  IMO, 30 is the new 25, 25 is the new 20 because of the scoring rates.  Very few bowlers currently average 25 or less.  While in 80s, 90s, 2000s, we had plenty such bowlers.  Now you cant even count 10.  To have sub 25 average, one must have wickets per match ratio between 1.5-2 with decent ER these days.  Shami has 1.86 wickets per match ratio (WPMR) as well as second best SR ever at 27, better than even Bumrah who has 1.74 WPMR and 29 SR as good as likes of Brett Lee who for me was an ODI ATG with 1,71 WPMR but Bumrah has better ER so has better average than Shami.  The greatest ODI bowler ever played is Mitchell Starc with 2 wickets per match, 164 wickets in 82 matches, average 21, best SR ever by any fast bowler taking over 150 wickets at an SR of 25.

 

Kapil Dev and BK are in similar category at 1.12 and 1.13 wickets per match and that is why BK has such a high average of 35 because his ER is almost 1.3 points higher than Kapil Dev.  Garner was the best ODI bowler in 80s with 1.48 wickets per match. In today's cricket, if a bowlers wants to have respectable average, he will have to have at least 1.5 wickets per match ratio. For e.g., if Bhuvi had 1.5 wickets per match ratio, it means he wold have picked 162 wickets in 108 matches instead of 123 he has right now and if he also had maintained his current ER of 4.99, he would have been averaging 26 right now instead of 35.  This is the biggest reason, wicket taking bowlers are the most precious commodities these days.

[maniac]

3 hours ago, rkt.india said:

Kapil wasn't that good in ODIs.

Lol wut. The guy was the highest wicket taker at one point in ODIs.A one man army in ODIs batting bowling and fielding For us over a decade. Imagine what he would do in this current line up at his peak.

 

Till his 2nd last game he was bowling spells like 6-2-15-1.

 

He is hands down one of the greatest odi players ever to play the game. 

 

Guess who Viv Richards picked as one of the greatest xfactors to tilt a odi game with just about anything batting, bowling or fielding 

 

 

Edited June 29, 2019 by maniac

[maniac]

3 hours ago, rkt.india said:

Can't bat in LOIs

I don’t trust anyone who calls themselves a spin bowling allrounder these days.

 

Look at the options Jadeja,Axar and Krunal. Krunal is a marginally better bat than the other 2 in LOIs. Axar has the better power game than Jadeja while Jadeja can be more trustworthy to get a 30-40 in a collapse type situation. All 3 are bang mediocre. Comparing only apples to apples of course.

 

Jadeja is a better bowler than the other 2, marginally better than Axar in LOIs and both are leagues better than Krunal’s pies.

 

The best spin bowling allrounders from SC are usually batsmen who can bowl. Like Sachin, Sehwag,Yuvi  or Jayasuriya. Afridi and Shakib are an exception with Shakib being the only proper allrounder among all the other names.

 

Anyway I think both Sachin and Sehwag did gross injustice to their bowing skills. These 2 can walk in to most top teams these days on their spin bowling talent alone.

 

In fact Sachin is a better leg spinner than Zampa,Sodhi,Rashid from England,Shadab Khan  etc. Wi and Bangladesh don’t have a leg spinner. Srilanka I have no clue who bowls what.

 

i think only Chahal,Rashid Khan and Tahir  are a better leg spinner than Sachin from the current lot.