Bumrah ruled out of test series versus SA due to minor lower back stress fracture, Umesh named as replacement

[vishalvirsingh]

On 9/24/2019 at 5:34 PM, Ankit_sharma03 said:

Not a huge loss considering Umesh n shami has been terrific at home

But i really hope we give siraj n saini a chance in bang series.....umesh lack of perfomances outside india is basically making him useless for future

I agree.

In India they may play ashwin and kuldeep and 2pacers(ishant n shammi).

I don't see umesh getting into 11 unless pitch looks green.

 

Making a pitch green in India against rabada is dangerous.

I think it will be turning track and we will win in 3.5 days.

[Sandeep99]

5 hours ago, vishalvirsingh said:

I agree.

In India they may play ashwin and kuldeep and 2pacers(ishant n shammi).

I don't see umesh getting into 11 unless pitch looks green.

 

Making a pitch green in India against rabada is dangerous.

I think it will be turning track and we will win in 3.5 days.

Not if RSA bats first. Keshav Maharaj and Piedt will be handful against India. I want them to win against arrogant Rat.

[putrevus]

8 hours ago, rkt.india said:

Umesh had his time. We need to find new alternatives. Someone who can do well in all conditions. Umesh isn't one. It's not certain that new one will do well but we will never know until they play.

Are you kidding me, this guy Umesh is 31 and can bowl very fast and is very good with SG ball in India .Why do you want to end his career.

 

Last match he played in India he took 10 wickets and was MoM. No you don't try an unknown if there is a known guy who has not played lot of cricket.

 

Nothing against Saini or Siraj.You just find enough places for everyone.They have to showcase their talents in formats they are chosen.If they are unsuited for the formats they have been chosen they have to wait for their turn. 

 

It is not like there is another allrounder who is being denied their chance.

[Turning_track]

Not against any bowler but let us not forget about Bhuvi, he hasn't played a test in last 20 months.  The last he was in the playing test eleven was Johannesburg test in Jan 2018 . Missed the England tour due to injury & didn't get the chance in Australia. 20 months is a long gap for a player who has been kept in loop in tests for so long.

[cric_fan]

He will most likely have to change he’s bowling action to prevent further stress fractures.....which might affect he’s pace.

[putrevus]

Where does it say that everyone needs to get their chances in every format, no you don't get chance in every format. These youngsters are playing IPL and all A tours so they have plenty of exposure.They should be ready to play in any format.Once they perform in the format they are chosen ,they will keep getting chances in other formats.

 

Guy like Bhuvi is not sniffing a chance to play in this team and people want some unknown toplay in test cricket that too when every match counts.

 

It took Kohli three years after he made his ODI debut to play test cricket.

[Ankit_sharma03]

3 hours ago, putrevus said:

Are you kidding me, this guy Umesh is 31 and can bowl very fast and is very good with SG ball in India .Why do you want to end his career.

Umesh pace have dropped a bit in last few years.....ur making him sound like archer , lee or akthar which he is not

They had fear in batsman....umesh never did on top of that his bouncer is very weak

 

Coz he is basically left a good option for 50 % games.....and options are needed for overseas since he isnt good

How do asses them by giving chances at home where these guys have performed in domestic n they wont have much pressure as spinners win u games at home 

3 hours ago, putrevus said:

Nothing against Saini or Siraj.You just find enough places for everyone.They have to showcase their talents in formats they are chosen.If they are unsuited for the formats they have been chosen they have to wait for their turn. 

Hardly young bowlers are good in all formats- look world around ull name a hand few

Using them at right formats is called utilization of resources. Isnt that what u laud about these TM of getting kulcha when format demand changes.....

 

Also backup crop needs to be in action now to have a smooth transition

Shami - wont last long considering his real age max 2-3 yrs

Ishant- he isnt that old but has played a lot which will affect his body soon

Bumrah- his workload needs to be managed

Bhuvi - has been hampered with constant injury in last few years

 

2 players get injured n we are screwed just like in eng....so u need to get in youngsters when its possible so home series is perfect since pressure is off them due to spinners. 

 

[Ankit_sharma03]

47 minutes ago, putrevus said:

Where does it say that everyone needs to get their chances in every format, no you don't get chance in every format. These youngsters are playing IPL and all A tours so they have plenty of exposure.They should be ready to play in any format.Once they perform in the format they are chosen ,they will keep getting chances in other formats.

Being ready for every format doesnt make them good in every format

thats being stubborn not smart, u play best XI .....world around has understood concept of diff in format 

 

Not picking players in right formats show lack of homework. 

47 minutes ago, putrevus said:

Guy like Bhuvi is not sniffing a chance to play in this team and people want some unknown toplay in test cricket that too when every match counts.

No one is questioning bhuvi place its umesh who is useless in every other country apart from India 

47 minutes ago, putrevus said:

It took Kohli three years after he made his ODI debut to play test cricket.

So

Sachin, mayank, shaw etc etc debut in test 1st........u can compare 2 individuals . Everyone has diff journey . 

 

[putrevus]

11 minutes ago, Ankit_sharma03 said:

Being ready for every format doesnt make them good in every format

thats being stubborn not smart, u play best XI .....world around has understood concept of diff in format 

 

Not picking players in right formats show lack of homework. 

No one is questioning bhuvi place its umesh who is useless in every other country apart from India 

So

Sachin, mayank, shaw etc etc debut in test 1st........u can compare 2 individuals . Everyone has diff journey . 

 

So they selected the players who are better than likes of Saini and co to play in tests.They gave chances in the format they could thats all you can ask from anyone..

 

What makes you think Test cricket is right format for Saini and co? If so why he is playing other formats. Selectors and TM cannot be as fickle as fans/media. They are dealing with real poeple who have lives and families.That is the reason why Rahul was given every chance to succeed before being discarded.

 

They just can't give up players just because fans think otherwise. Umesh is best example, you don't give up on player like that.

[Ankit_sharma03]

22 minutes ago, putrevus said:

So they selected the players who are better than likes of Saini and co to play in tests.They gave chances in the format they could thats all you can ask from anyone..

Did they give chance to siraj whenhe was destroying A-teams.....no they didnt 

Hows is shardul better then saini

Hows is umesh better then saini when saini isnt even tested ?

22 minutes ago, putrevus said:

What makes you think Test cricket is right format for Saini and co? If so why he is playing other formats. Selectors and TM cannot be as fickle as fans/media. They are dealing with real poeple who have lives and families.That is the reason why Rahul was given every chance to succeed before being discarded.

Simple- A bowler has certain length which are his strength which can be utilized in particular formats. Pace is more effective in test cricket then LOI

For eg shami lengths n lack variation dont work in t20 ....hence he has struggled

 

Simple a bit of homework is enough to understand that. Eng gave roy a chance in his strong format 1st......a bit of homework thats 

 

Why wudnt he want to play every format....he did well in IPL. A player wants to do well in every format doesnt mean he is good in every format.....someone like rahane kept trying in LOI till now nothing wrong in it. But are selectors m TM getting paid for utilization of resources . Shastri is paid 10 cr for not drinking daaru......

 

A player wish to play in every formats is not equal to player being good in every format

Does TM select players in particular format coz of players wish to play every format?????

 

Rahul is an all format player rightfully dropped in test , wrongfully benched in t20. Infact when he was in form he was wrongfully dropped in test to 

22 minutes ago, putrevus said:

They just can't give up players just because fans think otherwise. Umesh is best example, you don't give up on player like that.

when he has no future why not 

Ull never knw what in store untill u try something else, its not that he is undroppable .......if saw he wudnt have been dropped in SA series in 1st place 

[putrevus]

5 minutes ago, Ankit_sharma03 said:

Did they give chance to siraj whenhe was destroying A-teams.....no they didnt 

Hows is shardul better then saini

Hows is umesh better then saini when saini isnt even tested ?

Simple- A bowler has certain length which are his strength which can be utilized in particular formats. Pace is more effective in test cricket then LOI

For eg shami lengths n lack variation dont work in t20 ....hence he has struggled

 

Simple a bit of homework is enough to understand that. Eng gave roy a chance in his strong format 1st......a bit of homework thats 

 

Why wudnt he want to play every format....he did well in IPL. A player wants to do well in every format doesnt mean he is good in every format.....someone like rahane kept trying in LOI till now nothing wrong in it. But are selectors m TM getting paid for utilization of resources . Shastri is paid 10 cr for not drinking daaru......

 

A player wish to play in every formats is not equal to player being good in every format

Does TM select players in particular format coz of players wish to play every format?????

 

Rahul is an all format player rightfully dropped in test , wrongfully benched in t20. Infact when he was in form he was wrongfully dropped in test to 

when he has no future why not 

Ull never knw what in store untill u try something else, its not that he is undroppable .......if saw he wudnt have been dropped in SA series in 1st place 

Umesh in India is far better than any other players you mentioned.You get a chance when there are no better player than you that is simple formula for any selection.

 

Shardul I don't think is any good and Siraj should have made his debut in Hyd .

 

There are better test players than Saini thats why he is waiting.Rajinder Goel never played one test even though he had 600 plus FC wicket for one simple reason Bedi was better.

[Ankit_sharma03]

2 minutes ago, putrevus said:

Umesh in India is far better than any other players you mentioned.You get a chance when there are no better player than you that is simple formula for any selection.

others arent tested ...so we dont knw 

 

Coz good team prep for worst....if an eng repeat of bhuvi, bumrah injury happens what do we do ??? Which high chances can happen....away series result in some injury most times. Umesh is proven useless....and siraj , saini others dont have gr8 exp..... hence they need to be given exp when pressure isnt high

 

We can win in India without umesh also 

2 minutes ago, putrevus said:

There are better test players than Saini thats why he is waiting.Rajinder Goel never played one test even though he had 600 plus FC wicket for one simple reason Bedi was better.

no comments on rajendre goel as im not that old so i cant reply on somthing that i dnt knw

And lets take for instance he was hard done....well 2 wrongs dont make one right

Bedi was a world class bowler....umesh is limited bowler who performs in one condition . By that logic even rayudu scored in certain conditions against certain teams.....he shud have been in Wc atleast he wud have performed against some teams 

 

 

[putrevus]

47 minutes ago, Ankit_sharma03 said:

others arent tested ...so we dont knw 

 

Coz good team prep for worst....if an eng repeat of bhuvi, bumrah injury happens what do we do ??? Which high chances can happen....away series result in some injury most times. Umesh is proven useless....and siraj , saini others dont have gr8 exp..... hence they need to be given exp when pressure isnt high

 

We can win in India without umesh also 

no comments on rajendre goel as im not that old so i cant reply on somthing that i dnt knw

And lets take for instance he was hard done....well 2 wrongs dont make one right

Bedi was a world class bowler....umesh is limited bowler who performs in one condition . By that logic even rayudu scored in certain conditions against certain teams.....he shud have been in Wc atleast he wud have performed against some teams 

 

 

You don't need to play test cricket to be ready, test cricket is not some musical chairs when you pick and chose players.You give any player enough chances before they are discarded.Umesh was man or match in last match he played in India and took 10 wickets thats why he was picked ahead of Saini and Siraj.

 

You will do any player a greater disservice by dropping them after two or three tests. Saini or Siraj will have to wait for their turn and when it comes they should play continously.By that time Umesh should be history.

 

Goel or Shivalkar were not better than the four spinners , a case could be made against Venkat but Venkat was very good fielder and could handle the bat better.

 

These players are getting ample scope to showcase their talents.You cannot select everyone in every format. 

Edited September 26, 2019 by putrevus

[Ankit_sharma03]

28 minutes ago, putrevus said:

You don't need to play test cricket to be ready, test cricket is not some musical chairs when you pick and chose players.You give any player enough chances before they are discarded.Umesh was man or match in last match he played in India and took 10 wickets thats why he was picked ahead of Saini and Siraj.

their is a thing called confidence ....no matter u take 1000 wkts u need to get ur confidence in international cricket

U need to figure out how international cricket works coz batsman arent same

 

No one is denying umesh was MOM....but what are we achieving .....these things cost u when in bad times.

 

28 minutes ago, putrevus said:

You will do any player a greater disservice by dropping them after two or three tests. Saini or Siraj will have to wait for their turn and when it comes they should play continously.By that time Umesh should be history.

this tm has done enough of that 

Nair dropped after that much 

gill dropped after 2 games

 

list can go on n on 

 

Umesh still is 31 and saini 27 at his peak.....if umesh plays 3 more years saini wud be 30. A bowler hitting 145k+ consistently being not even a option in top 15 and we say we dont have x-factor 

28 minutes ago, putrevus said:

Goel or Shivalkar were not better than the four spinners , a case could be made against Venkat but Venkat was very good fielder and could handle the bat better.

Cant comment on something i hve not seen 

28 minutes ago, putrevus said:

These players are getting ample scope to showcase their talents.You cannot select everyone in every format. 

xactly thats why u need to select right players in right format thats called homework n vision.

[putrevus]

9 minutes ago, Ankit_sharma03 said:

their is a thing called confidence ....no matter u take 1000 wkts u need to get ur confidence in international cricket

U need to figure out how international cricket works coz batsman arent same

 

No one is denying umesh was MOM....but what are we achieving .....these things cost u when in bad times.

 

this tm has done enough of that 

Nair dropped after that much 

gill dropped after 2 games

 

list can go on n on 

 

Umesh still is 31 and saini 27 at his peak.....if umesh plays 3 more years saini wud be 30. A bowler hitting 145k+ consistently being not even a option in top 15 and we say we dont have x-factor 

Cant comment on something i hve not seen 

xactly thats why u need to select right players in right format thats called homework n vision.

In you mind you want Umesh to be history, Selectors cannot do that. Thats why Saini has to wait.It is that simple once you discard a veteran it is end of the rope for him thats why you think twice before chucking him out.

 

None one says we don't have Xfactor, don't overrate Saini. Gill was picked because Kohli went home after series win.So it was always a stop gap even Gill knew it.

 

You select a player based on his excellence in one format that happens all the time.Kohli was picked to test team based on his ODI credentials too.

 

Nair continuously flopped everywhere after that test.Pujara also couldn't buy a run in county cricket thats why he want picked for first test.Rahane could not make run against SL thats why was kicked out for first two tests in SA and Rohit was selected.

 

Haseeb Hameed who impressed a lot in India in test cricket was kicked out by his county too.Matt Renshaw could not buy a run in Shield cricket so was kicked out of the test team.

 

You cannot blame TMs for doing what they did with all the above players.They all could not buy a run before they were kicked out.

[Ankit_sharma03]

Just now, putrevus said:

In you mind you want Umesh to be history, Selectors cannot do that. Thats why Saini has to wait.It is that simple once you discard a veteran it is end of the rope for him thats why you think twice before chucking him out.

 

None one says we don't have Xfactor, don't overrate Saini. Gill was picked because Kohli went home after series win.So it was always a stop gap even Gill knew it.

N where did mayank come in picture in WC ???? 

Just now u said umesh is very fast......saini pace is higher so hows that not  x-factor when wanted to count that aspect 

 

Just now, putrevus said:

Nair continuously flopped everywhere after that test.Pujara also couldn't buy a run in county cricket thats why he want picked for first test.Rahane could not make run against SL thats why was kicked out for first two tests in SA and Rohit was selected.

Obv...if u drop someone unfairely it can affect someone confidence badly. No one can be dropped for one bad series

If so Kohli was so **** in his 1st test series that he shud have never played again 

 

Just now, putrevus said:

Haseeb Hameed who impressed a lot in India in test cricket was kicked out by his county too.Matt Renshaw could not buy a run in Shield cricket so was kicked out of the test team.

N how did that affect his confidence ....now he is struggling in domestic also 

hameed avg 34.....thats was showing huge talent vs Nair who scored 300 ...a rare achievement

 

huge diff 

Just now, putrevus said:

You cannot blame TMs for doing what they did with all the above players.They all could not buy a run before they were kicked out.

Kohli avg 15 in his 1st test series

his 1st 12 test innnings he avg 22....so the man deserved a kick himself but a captain persisted 

Dhoni had only 1-100s n 1-50 in his 1st 20 odi games yet someone persisted

yuvi had avg of 22 till 30 odi, 29 till 86 odi .....yet someone persisted

 

U dont get ready made players every day.....once in a while will come bumrah. So u dnt drop players who make 300 ...becoz rarely that happens and justify with that by saying england also did that . 

[putrevus]

22 minutes ago, Ankit_sharma03 said:

N where did mayank come in picture in WC ???? 

Just now u said umesh is very fast......saini pace is higher so hows that not  x-factor when wanted to count that aspect 

 

Obv...if u drop someone unfairely it can affect someone confidence badly. No one can be dropped for one bad series

If so Kohli was so **** in his 1st test series that he shud have never played again 

 

N how did that affect his confidence ....now he is struggling in domestic also 

hameed avg 34.....thats was showing huge talent vs Nair who scored 300 ...a rare achievement

 

huge diff 

Kohli avg 15 in his 1st test series

his 1st 12 test innnings he avg 22....so the man deserved a kick himself but a captain persisted 

Dhoni had only 1-100s n 1-50 in his 1st 20 odi games yet someone persisted

yuvi had avg of 22 till 30 odi, 29 till 86 odi .....yet someone persisted

 

U dont get ready made players every day.....once in a while will come bumrah. So u dnt drop players who make 300 ...becoz rarely that happens and justify with that by saying england also did that . 

Mayank is one guy who did hard yards and proved himself over and over again in all domestic format.Gill was putrid in his two games and world cup was no place to blood a guy like him thats why Mayank came into picture rightly so.

 

Kohli was dropeed after his first series, he did not play in England.Kohli had a advantage like Rohit, he was playing odis so he could make a case for himself again in test squad.

Nair did play 6 tests and he was not persisted for one reason they wanted an allrounder.If Pandya played it was between Nair or Rahane.Stop talking without having context, Where would they fit Nair if Rahane had to play?Nair is one dimesional player it is not his fault but team balance also has to be considered? Who would you have dropped to fit Nair if you were selecting instead of Kohli/Shastri.

 

Guys like Yuvi and Kohli were persisted because they already performed few times .Rahul was persisted so long becuase he scored some runs when he started out.

 

You don't just persist with any tom dick and harry.You have to see some talent . 

 

 

 

Edited September 26, 2019 by putrevus

[Ankit_sharma03]

9 minutes ago, putrevus said:

Mayank is one guy who did hard yards and proved himself over and over again in all domestic format.Gill was putrid in his two games and world cup was no place to blood a guy like him thats why Mayank came into picture rightly so.

So mayank shud have come in 1st place in Aus N NZ series and its fair to throw in a guy like mayank in Wc without any prior game in format

Its right to make pant bat at 4 in semi 

 

9 minutes ago, putrevus said:

Kohli was dropeed after his first series, he did not play in England.Kohli had a advantage like Rohit, he was playing odis so he could make a case for himself again in test squad.

No he wasnt , he played the nxt series at home against WI 

9 minutes ago, putrevus said:

Nair did play 6 tests and he was not persisted for one reason they wanted an allrounder.If Pandya played it was between Nair or Rahane.Stop talking without having context, Where would they fit Nair if Rahane had to play?Nair is one dimesional player it is not his fault but team balance also has to be considered? Who would you have dropped to fit Nair if you were selecting instead of Kohli/Shastri.

Karun nair was the 6th batsman....6th batsman can be in squad if not XI . He was dropped from squad only . Dropping from XI for team combination is understandable not from squad 

 

My context are perfectly fine please check ur facts

Nair was dropped from squad for next series - guess for whom- Rohit sharma ( on what basis did rohit make a come back )

 

please explain?? On what basis was rohit picked ahead of nair for next series ...the only cricket that happened btw 2 series was IPL and Rohit didnt do well that IPL also 

 

 

9 minutes ago, putrevus said:

Guys like Yuvi and Kohli were persisted because they already performed few times .Rahul was persisted so long becuase he scored some runs when he started out.

I showed u yuvi stats....rahul did perform more then yuvi that to in tough conistions 

9 minutes ago, putrevus said:

You don't just persist with any tom dick and harry.You have to see some talent . 

U cant score 100 overseas without talent 

U cant have 100 in all format without talent 

 

[Mosher]

Great news but hope they don't rush Bumrah back. 

 

No surgery, 'expect Bumrah to be back sooner than later' - Bharat Arun

 

 

Jasprit Bumrah's injured back might not require surgery "as of now", according to India bowling coach Bharat Arun. India's fast bowling spearhead is, however, unlikely to play a part in the remainder of India's home season, which features limited-overs series against Bangladesh, West Indies and Sri Lanka over the next three months.

Earlier in October, Bumrah visited the UK with the National Cricket Academy's chief physiotherapist Ashish Kaushik, and consulted specialists to treat the back problem. The BCCI hasn't made public the nature of Bumrah's problem, except saying in a press release that the injury was "minor".

 

"Fast bowling is an unnatural activity. Despite our best efforts there can be no guarantees. We expect Bumrah to be back sooner than later, hopefully in time for the New Zealand Test series that is our next big challenge," Arun told the Hindu. "As of now, he doesn't need surgery."

 

https://www.espncricinfo.com/story/_/id/27924461/no-surgery-expect-bumrah-back-sooner-later-bharat-arun

[Cricketics]

He should be just made to get ready for NZ tour, until then he can rest and play odd Ranji games to get ready for NZ tour. Nothing else. Great to hear about his progress.