Virat Kohli's India 'need to win big tournaments' - Sourav Ganguly

[Ankit_sharma03]

10 minutes ago, putrevus said:

Anywhere Kohli is far better than Ganguly ever was.

 

as if kohli ticks all boxes ....every captain ticks some n some not......no one ticks all 

Even azhar has won few finals which both ganguly n kohli cudnt 

[mani sha]

15 hours ago, gattaca said:

Ganguly and kohli are very similar both chocked in big tournaments. Both liked and promoted few players always and worked on improving Indian fast bowling. The only thing different is Ganguly liked younger players kohli prefers older players. 

Ganguly managed players better

didn’t have crazy good fast bowlers

ganguly played well in big tournaments 

he faced might opponents like aussie pointing in wc final - that’s not choking . It’s fair result 

[Ankit_sharma03]

1 minute ago, mani sha said:

Ganguly managed players better

didn’t have crazy good fast bowlers

ganguly played well in big tournaments 

he faced might opponents like aussie pointing in wc final - that’s not choking . It’s fair result 

Ganguly biggest plus was he gave suppourted guys like yuvi, sehwag, zak , nehra, kaif , bhajji all time....in their inconsistencies and they were inconsistent in early phase a lot. 

He gave youngsters experiences which indian cricket reaped benefit in future.....experience means going through failure unfortunately kohli n shastri doesnt understand that......they want experinced players without playing them, they want them to learn lesson without failing

 

This was the biggest legacy ganguly had and legacy lives for years

[rtmohanlal]

1 hour ago, Vilander said:

India was blown away by Aus in 2003 , utterly destroyed twice.

 

in 2019 India got beaten in a specific condition well suited to the one team that could have pulled off a win on India on that condition, any other team in that pitch India would have beaten them ( except may be SA with Steyn). Only other game India would have lost is a flat track batting second after England. 

 

The 2019 team is not that bad an the 2003 team was not that good.  

that loss had a lot to do with Kohli's captaincy blunders and his batting incompetence, no excuses what so ever. Sending  DK to anchor  in a crisis in a world cup semi chase!!!! Was this guy under the influence of any intoxication to do that sort of blunder???The best man for that situation Jadhav was dropped  for that match.He himself being the best batsman in the format and having  tackled such conditions easily before fell to the pressure. So ... no comparisons with the 2003 loss.

[putrevus]

11 minutes ago, Ankit_sharma03 said:

as if kohli ticks all boxes ....every captain ticks some n some not......no one ticks all 

Even azhar has won few finals which both ganguly n kohli cudnt 

Winning finals is not the end of the story, yes it is important.Kohli has made this team competetive anywhere they play in any format.I never judge captaincy by cups. Winning coco cola cups and singer cups does not make anyone great captain.

 

You need luck to win ICC tournments too. Aussies won in 1999 because they were more lucky than SA.England won in 2019 as they had luck going their way.

 

Kohli ticks everybox as a captain.It is his job to make the team compete every match played  and he plays vital role in leading the team from front by performing on the field.Every captain has his views on his team and he should be allowed to have it.If captain fails to deliver then look for somebody else.Kohli has given no reason for anyone to complain as a captain.

[putrevus]

22 minutes ago, Ankit_sharma03 said:

not all owners are same only KXIP n DD has interfered a lot hence they never let coaches n captain settle

 

RCB has given full freedom to virat.....they spend all the money for players he asks for . What else they havent fired him despite such a poor show agains n again

on a damp wet pitch .....where even india struggled while batting n got out on 105.....even clarke got 6/9 on a rank turner doesnt mean u start playing him as main bowler. What damp pitches were we suppose to get in that asia cup

 

Binny did nothing with ball when he got a chance in england test series.....pandya is miles ahead as bowler then binny . On a damp wet pitch every trundler who swing the ball will be lethal 

 

 

I don't care what RCB did or did not do. I would trust Binny more than Pandya on helpful pitches with both bat and ball.

 

Ganguly was phattu  who ran away after seeing the green pitch.Enough said about his captaincy.

[Ankit_sharma03]

Just now, putrevus said:

Winning finals is not the end of the story, yes it is important.Kohli has made this team competetive anywhere they play in any format.I never judge captaincy by cups. Winning coco cola cups and singer cups does not make anyone great captain.

In LOI it is ....bilaterals no one remembers now 

or u build a team for future which shastri n kohli cant vouch for 

 

We were competitve long back....poor indian side was a thing of 90s 

Just now, putrevus said:

You need luck to win ICC tournments too. Aussies won in 1999 because they were more lucky than SA.England won in 2019 as they had luck going their way.

Luck alone is not enough 

Sa can blame their luck once or twice but not always

Aus didnt win with luck all time 

 

Those incidence u remeber for bad luck.....i dnt remember bad luck in our cases of CT or Wc

Just now, putrevus said:

Kohli ticks everybox as a captain.

Nope

 

winning tournament- nope......dhoni n even azhar had multination under him

Win in eng- Nope.....dravid had that

developing youngsters- Nope....ganguly , dhoni, dravid all did better

IPL- Nope ......dhoni, gambhir, rohit all have won it 

Just now, putrevus said:

Kohli has given no reason for anyone to complain as a captain.

There are many....

 

[Ankit_sharma03]

13 minutes ago, putrevus said:

I don't care what RCB did or did not do. I would trust Binny more than Pandya on helpful pitches with both bat and ball.

 caring doesnt change the fact that RCB is an example of kohli poor LOI captaincy

So ur saying binny is better then pandya since u trust him with bat n ball more then him.....so why doesnt kohli play him ahead of pandya 

 

oh btw binny has played 3 test in england n not even taken a single wkt.....pandya won a test with his bowling

yea right better in helpful conditions 

Quote

Ganguly was phattu  who ran away after seeing the green pitch.Enough said about his captaincy.

when did that happen in rumours.....u cant score 18,000 runs in international cricket by being phattu 

if rumors are to be believed ....team under kohli has felt very insecure 

Edited October 17, 2019 by Ankit_sharma03

[ShoonyaSifar]

4 minutes ago, putrevus said:

I don't care what RCB did or did not do. I would trust Binny more than Pandya on helpful pitches with both bat and ball.

 

Ganguly was phattu  who ran away after seeing the green pitch.Enough said about his captaincy.

That was the bastard Shashank Manohar and his gang taking revenge against Jagmohan Dalmiya. Imagine the idiots went to the extent of hurting the national side to please their egos.

 

Manohar would not have ever imagined that 15 years down the line he will be facing Dada as BCCI President. Forget anyone else, Dada should show the idiot his true worth. Has had a bit of free run while SC and CoA were busy wrecking our cricket administration.

[putrevus]

1 hour ago, ShoonyaSifar said:

That was the bastard Shashank Manohar and his gang taking revenge against Jagmohan Dalmiya. Imagine the idiots went to the extent of hurting the national side to please their egos.

 

Manohar would not have ever imagined that 15 years down the line he will be facing Dada as BCCI President. Forget anyone else, Dada should show the idiot his true worth. Has had a bit of free run while SC and CoA were busy wrecking our cricket administration.

I totally understand why the pitch was made but Ganguly simply shrinked  at that sight which made him as a weak captain who could not lead from the front.He never really recovered from it.After 2004 Pakistan series win,when he had peak Dravid and all that batting talent, that was time India needed to take the next step to challenge Australia in all formats but they never could do take the next step.Ganguly's batting had lot to do with it.

 

Dravid had very good ideas as a captain but I don't think he had the ability to withstand crititcism.He is just too nice, you as a captain cannot be too nice.He also came across as a captain who let his coach dictate terms.

 

Dhoni had zero interest in test cricket.How many matches we saw when Dhoni was lost and ran out of ideas when touring SENA countries,Kohli is not without flaws but his teams have competed in almost every match it does not matter what match and what ground they are playing the match.

 

People expect miracles, Clive Lloyd's WI team won for first time in Australia in 1980 even though they had great teams.It take times for a captain and team to win in place where they have never won.FAF was hailed as this great captain and they literally kicked AB out when that poor guy was out injured.They made AB do all the donkey's work but FAF was allowed to bat at cosy no5.What is Faf doing this series has SA even competed in any match.He was kissing Rabada and doing all that nonsene in Australia , what happened now?

 

Thats why Kohli with his intensity to win every match makes him the best captain India ever had IMO, this IPL nonsense does not define him as a captain.Kohli next step is start winning series in all countries and win some cups.If his teams start fading like Ganguly's teams after 2004 then he is not that great as a captain as I have made him to be.

 

You don't change a captain just because he failed to win two major matches.Rohit himself never showed up as batsman in big matches along with Kohli but for some people he is better captain than Kohli.

Edited October 17, 2019 by putrevus

[Deleted_User_1]

Ab aayega maaza. Dada aur Bewda mast jori!!

[Cricwala]

15 hours ago, Ankit_sharma03 said:

in test yes

No way...Ganguly took over test captaincy reigns when Indian cricket was at Rock bottom after match fixing scandal & reputation as a meek team. We were losing at home too at the time - SA had whipped us 2-0, Pak had beaten us 2-1. Greatest ever AUS team visited in 2001 and we pulled off incredible 2-1 win because of fighting spirit injected by Saurav. He blooded and backed rookies like zaheer, Nehra, bhajji, Sehwag, yuvi, Dhoni who all served as champs for next decade. Drawing in Eng and AUS (yes, their bowling was weak but batting was still fearsome in that series) 1-1 was INCREDIBLE given our reputation at the time and bowling resources. AUS, SA  were top class teams at the time, and even Eng, WI, Pak, NZ, SL were tougher than they are today. Kohli also took over during a trough, but other than continuing dominance at home, he has under-delivered overseas despite best ever fast bowling pool + much-much weaker opponents across the world.

[Ankit_sharma03]

55 minutes ago, Cricwala said:

No way...Ganguly took over test captaincy reigns when Indian cricket was at Rock bottom after match fixing scandal & reputation as a meek team. We were losing at home too at the time - SA had whipped us 2-0, Pak had beaten us 2-1. Greatest ever AUS team visited in 2001 and we pulled off incredible 2-1 win because of fighting spirit injected by Saurav. He blooded and backed rookies like zaheer, Nehra, bhajji, Sehwag, yuvi, Dhoni who all served as champs for next decade. Drawing in Eng and AUS (yes, their bowling was weak but batting was still fearsome in that series) 1-1 was INCREDIBLE given our reputation at the time and bowling resources. AUS, SA  were top class teams at the time, and even Eng, WI, Pak, NZ, SL were tougher than they are today. Kohli also took over during a trough, but other than continuing dominance at home, he has under-delivered overseas despite best ever fast bowling pool + much-much weaker opponents across the world.

ganguly wasnt tactically that gr8

in Aus 2004 sydney test, he didnt declare n we kept batting for 2 n half days with 700+ on board

in 2005 pak home series whole team came out n started blocking every single ball after sehwag got out 

We were ahead in WI n Aus away tour yet ended up loosing in WI n drawing in Aus 

in Chappell saga he was to be blamed equally

[Turning_track]

There has to be some kind of accountability for the performances in these knock out matches. 2017 CT final's performance was absolutely forgotten by these guys & removal of Ash, Jaddu was considered as a permanent fix. Making a few as scapegoats won't help us in the long run like how Bangar has been booted out. Deep running issues like selection, our middle order etc. need to be carefully sorted out if we need to go all the way to win ICC silverware.

Edited October 18, 2019 by Turning_track

[RajBan]

1 hour ago, Ankit_sharma03 said:

ganguly wasnt tactically that gr8

in Aus 2004 sydney test, he didnt declare n we kept batting for 2 n half days with 700+ on board

in 2005 pak home series whole team came out n started blocking every single ball after sehwag got out 

We were ahead in WI n Aus away tour yet ended up loosing in WI n drawing in Aus 

in Chappell saga he was to be blamed equally

You are correct. Ganguly's field tactics has been always hit or miss. He had some really good moments and some aweful as well. We also need to be aware just like the current team Indian team under him under achieved to an extent. They lost lot of close matches and tournaments which the should have won.

 

His strength is actually different. He is mentally very strong, as such  he has the stomach to fight  against adverse conditions and strong opponents. Also he has a thoughtful mind and has this ability to go beyond popular wisdom at times. His man management skills are pretty good, he is a good communicator and he has the ability to pickup right talent for the right job going beyond regional bias and affiliation. That is the reason why he should do good as an administrator as he has those fundamental qualities in place. As far as strategic deficiencies are concerned , his team has Jay Shah who is pretty good in that regard. Between the two they can actually make it work really well in next 10 months or so. 

[Ankit_sharma03]

36 minutes ago, Turning_track said:

There has to be some kind of accountability for the performances in these knock out matches. 2017 CT final's performance was absolutely forgotten by these guys & removal of Ash, Jaddu was considered as a permanent fix. Making a few as scapegoats won't help us in the long run like how Bangar has been booted out. Deep running issues like selection, our middle order etc. need to be carefully sorted out if we need to go all the way to win ICC silverware.

Accountability shud also be held of coach that how did he take a team to eng n sa test series without a practice game

 

[Turning_track]

5 minutes ago, Ankit_sharma03 said:

Accountability shud also be held of coach that how did he take a team to eng n sa test series without a practice game

 

I think we had a few practice matches before Eng test series but it is the start of SA tour where we truly messed up. Uncertainty of our team's departure date and with no practice matches we were already 2-0 down. How could Mr. Shastri say no to the plans of his captain? More than the loss of 4-1 against England last year , it is losing the golden opportunity of winning test series in SA which hurts me more. Even Graeme Smith spoke about this at the end of Pune test that this Indian side should've grabbed that chance.
I hope the BCCI administration makes sure that in future makes sure such recklessness is avoided before such an important tour.

[Stan AF]

I'll be blunt here. I have no hopes of this team winning anything.

[putrevus]

There was one player AB who was difference between India and Australia  losing the series in SA in 2018.Would practice matches help, that is up for debate.Aiden Markram scored scored heavily with 2 100s in practice games this series.What happened to him in tests.No home team is willing to play strong team in practice.

 

Why are people putting the blame on the coach and captain for lack of practice games.England they went in early , what happened , you need quality batsmen too. Other than Kohli none of them showed up.Why are people overestimating these players.Other than Kohli there is no world class batsman in the team and people are expecting miracles.They kept on giving chances to guys like Rahul and Pandya based on their so called talents.Team started winning once these two were out of the team.

[SK_IH]

2 hours ago, Stan AF said:

I'll be blunt here. I have no hopes of this team winning anything.

Virat missed a great chance of affirming status of this Indian team as the supreme leader of this era by winning the world cup (what the doofus coach boasts about any way) but once again failed when it mattered. As you said this defeat has also disillusioned me about this team and Virat.