Washington Sundar should bat at #5 for India in T20 and ODI Cricket

[sandeep]

1 minute ago, Stan AF said:

The first.

 

#5 is a specialist position. Only Indian fans are this much obsessed with this batting/bowling half all rounders.

How would you describe Ravi Shastri and how his career played out.  Steve Smith?  Let me also remind you that Virender Sehwag made it to the Indian team as a bowler who could bat a bit.   MS Dhoni was initially kept down the order at #7 for his first 5 10 games, but showed what he could give the team after he was given opportunities to bat at #3.  

 

Don't pigeon-hole and limit players based on pre-conceived notions.  Give them opportunities based on what they demonstrate they are capable of.  And 4 years away from a World Cup is the time to experiment - closer to the WC, the usual excuses come out.  

 

You seem to have already made up your mind that Sundar is a "half" player - without really watching him bat much.  Your choice, its your opinion after all.  

[sandeep]

7 hours ago, Ankit_sharma03 said:

in that case jadeja is more tempting....

See i dnt mind this option but not at this point.

Jadeja was given chances to bat up the order - Captain Dhoni even sent him to bat ahead of an in-prime Yuvraj and in-prime Yusuf, in a must-win game in a WC.  

yes he was improved his test batting.  But Sundar has already flashed temperament, and an ability to hit boundaries against pace and spin.  I love Jaddu, but Sundar is way more deserving of an opportunity.  

[Stan AF]

16 minutes ago, sandeep said:

How would you describe Ravi Shastri and how his career played out.  Steve Smith?  Let me also remind you that Virender Sehwag made it to the Indian team as a bowler who could bat a bit.   MS Dhoni was initially kept down the order at #7 for his first 5 10 games, but showed what he could give the team after he was given opportunities to bat at #3.  

 

Don't pigeon-hole and limit players based on pre-conceived notions.  Give them opportunities based on what they demonstrate they are capable of.  And 4 years away from a World Cup is the time to experiment - closer to the WC, the usual excuses come out.  

 

You seem to have already made up your mind that Sundar is a "half" player - without really watching him bat much.  Your choice, its your opinion after all.  

I say half because i've seen plenty of players hyped up only to fail in the int'l games. Krunal recently for eg:. I think someone even started a thread on why the management shouldn't select a player just because of their batting abilities and can bowl a little.

 

Washington Sundar if he makes it into the team, will be primarily because he's a bowler. His role should be in picking wickets and helping to win. Sure if he tonks a few sixers its well and good but if he's in the team it should be based on his ability to take wickets and not runs. We have specialist batsmen for that. Hell even Kuldeep Yadav who was dazzling with wickets in both ODIs/t20s was dropped after a couple of bad games recently because he wasn't picking wickets. He is an under 25 average bowler fyi.

 

There's a reason why even test heavyweight all-rounders like Ashwin & Jadeja are finding it difficult to make it back to the limited overs team because we have better wicket taking spinners now. Their batting abilities are secondary in this situation.

 

And do you seriously think that either Kohli or the TM will be giving #5 to Sundar when there is Shreyas Iyer/KL/ Rishabh and for all we  know even dhoni might come back!!

 

 

 

 

[sandeep]

2 minutes ago, Stan AF said:

I say half because i've seen plenty of players hyped up only to fail in the int'l games. Krunal recently for eg:. I think someone even started a thread on why the management shouldn't select a player just because of their batting abilities and can bowl a little.

 

Washington Sundar if he makes it into the team, will be primarily because he's a bowler. His role should be in picking wickets and helping to win. Sure if he tonks a few sixers its well and good but if he's in the team it should be based on his ability to take wickets and not runs. We have specialist batsmen for that. Hell even Kuldeep Yadav who was dazzling with wickets in both ODIs/t20s was dropped after a couple of bad games recently because he wasn't picking wickets. He is an under 25 average bowler fyi.

 

There's a reason why even test heavyweight all-rounders like Ashwin & Jadeja are finding it difficult to make it back to the limited overs team because we have better wicket taking spinners now. Their batting abilities are secondary in this situation.

 

And do you seriously think that either Kohli or the TM will be giving #5 to Sundar when there is Shreyas Iyer/KL/ Rishabh and for all we  know even dhoni might come back!!

 

 

 

 

Simple question - would the Indian team benefit from having a player of the calibre of Shaqib Hassan?  If yes, why shouldn't the team explore the potential of a young player who may be capable of blossoming into somebody like him?  

 

Both T20 and ODI cricket increasing demand deep batting line-ups and and multi-tool players.  "We have batsmen for this, and bowlers for that" mindset belongs in the 1980s.  

 

4 years removed from a World Cup, is precisely the time to affordably allocate a few games to young players who could potentially turn out to be great assets down the line.  When Dhoni was given a chance to bat at #3, nobody was ready to guarantee that he will turn out to be the player he eventually did.  But all teams could see the advantage that Gilchrist gave Australia.  Ganguly wanted to win, and he recognized that if Dhoni turned into more than just a lower order Afridi type slogger, it would enormously strengthen the team.  India got a 15 year player and one of the ATG ODI captains with a ODI and T20 WC win out of that experiment. 

 

You can't blindly copy and ape other teams, and its not easy to just pull out a Gilchrist or Shaqib out of your rear end.  But its eminently advisable to take a close objective look at the prospective players that we have around the Indian team, and see who can potentially turn into a greater contributor to the team, given the chance.  Again, nobody's saying that Sundar will become Shaqib.  But there is sufficient reason to justify such an experiment. 

 

At a minimum, the national team "think tank" should pick up the phone and communicate strongly to his Ranji team to ensure that he is given the right exposure to bat higher for his First Class team.  In today's India, there is so much competition for slots even in Ranji teams, its hard for teams not to think short-sighted and put team interests ahead of individual player development paths.   

 

 

[putrevus]

a big no

[Sgattick10]

How about Abhishek Sharma? Too young? 

[sandeep]

3 hours ago, Sgattick10 said:

How about Abhishek Sharma? Too young? 

I think Pranav Dhanwade would be a better option.

[Ankit_sharma03]

7 hours ago, sandeep said:

Jadeja was given chances to bat up the order - Captain Dhoni even sent him to bat ahead of an in-prime Yuvraj and in-prime Yusuf, in a must-win game in a WC.  

yes he was improved his test batting.  But Sundar has already flashed temperament, and an ability to hit boundaries against pace and spin.  I love Jaddu, but Sundar is way more deserving of an opportunity.  

that was years back ......it remains to be seen is he same of Semi final knock is a sign. Players change over a course of time

 

See there is a common pattern when he gets more time he is better then when he has to come slog from ball 1. As i said its a personal choice and there is something i like about jadeja batting now (when he has balls in hands). If jadeja clicks he gives more option then anyone

 

[maniac]

7 minutes ago, Ankit_sharma03 said:

that was years back ......it remains to be seen is he same of Semi final knock is a sign. Players change over a course of time

 

See there is a common pattern when he gets more time he is better then when he has to come slog from ball 1. As i said its a personal choice and there is something i like about jadeja batting now (when he has balls in hands). If jadeja clicks he gives more option then anyone

 

I can bet a $100 that had Jadeja walked in with 20 runs needed from 15 balls in the semifinals he would have choked 9.5 out of 10 times.

 

Actually there wasn’t a lot of calculation in the innings, he was swinging his bat, got a few runs and as you saw when **** started to get real, he blew it. 
 

I would have given your words a serious thought had he won us the semis but no there is nothing to see here.

 

Jadeja is a mediocre LOI cricketer period. 

[Ankit_sharma03]

26 minutes ago, maniac said:

I can bet a $100 that had Jadeja walked in with 20 runs needed from 15 balls in the semifinals he would have choked 9.5 out of 10 times.

i clearly wrote when he has balls in hand ......m stil surel if u send him at 7 he ll fail but he is better at 5 or 6 when he has more time in hand. This is the reason we got pandya in team 

Quote

Actually there wasn’t a lot of calculation in the innings, he was swinging his bat, got a few runs and as you saw when **** started to get real, he blew it. 
 

he is better when he has time in hand not when he has 15-120 balls ,in that game he came around 30th over

Quote

I would have given your words a serious thought had he won us the semis but no there is nothing to see here.

he got us in winning position ....dhoni had to finish it

Quote

Jadeja is a mediocre LOI cricketer period. 

doesnt mean he can make it a gr8 career

Ishant is turning a veyr avg test career to good one in last 2 yrs

Edited November 15, 2019 by Ankit_sharma03

[sandeep]

1 hour ago, Ankit_sharma03 said:

that was years back ......it remains to be seen is he same of Semi final knock is a sign. Players change over a course of time

 

See there is a common pattern when he gets more time he is better then when he has to come slog from ball 1. As i said its a personal choice and there is something i like about jadeja batting now (when he has balls in hands). If jadeja clicks he gives more option then anyone

 

When I think of Jaddu in ODI cricket, I think of Sri Lankan batsmen massacring him in CT 2017.  He couldn't even finish his full quota I think.   Boundaries leaked by Jaddu and Umesh Yadav cost India that game.  

 

Jaddu is a finger spinner - with 4 outfielders, on flat tracks, he is not able to control boundaries.  Sundar has proven he can do it in T20 power-play with new ball.  

 

Sundar has already shown equal if not more potential with  bat in hand.  A 21 year old deserves an extended audition more than a 31 year old who has had umpteen chances in the past.  

 

 

[maniac]

1 hour ago, Ankit_sharma03 said:

i clearly wrote when he has balls in hand ......m stil surel if u send him at 7 he ll fail but he is better at 5 or 6 when he has more time in hand. This is the reason we got pandya in team 

he is better when he has time in hand not when he has 15-120 balls ,in that game he came around 30th over

he got us in winning position ....dhoni had to finish it

doesnt mean he can make it a gr8 career

Ishant is turning a veyr avg test career to good one in last 2 yrs

I don’t get this argument that oh he is good in this situation or he is perfect for this scenario when it comes to all these bits and pieces players (Jadeja in LOIs is one and I agree with Manjrekar) 

 

Simple a no.10 and no.11 batting on a 5th day in a test match should give their 100% to try and draw the game. Yes there are no expectations but they have to adapt and try. If they try to slog and get out it is still unacceptable. 
 

Cricket acumen is required and the top players in the world have that. Jadeja doesn’t and so don’t some of these bits and pieces “allrounders” you back. They are one dimensional 

[Ankit_sharma03]

8 hours ago, maniac said:

I don’t get this argument that oh he is good in this situation or he is perfect for this scenario when it comes to all these bits and pieces players (Jadeja in LOIs is one and I agree with Manjrekar) 

Every one is perfect in some scenario only

Why did rohit work better at opening and kohli works best at 3

 

Even sundar wont work great at 7....he ll also be better 5 when he has time at time. Thats why we say we need guys like pandya dubey woh can use muscle from ball -1 coz not everyone can

8 hours ago, maniac said:

Simple a no.10 and no.11 batting on a 5th day in a test match should give their 100% to try and draw the game. Yes there are no expectations but they have to adapt and try. If they try to slog and get out it is still unacceptable. 
 

We aint talking about test match coz the diff is ull have time on ur hand unlike LOI

8 hours ago, maniac said:

Cricket acumen is required and the top players in the world have that. Jadeja doesn’t and so don’t some of these bits and pieces “allrounders” you back. They are one dimensional 

if that was the case he wont have lasted this long.

[Ankit_sharma03]

9 hours ago, sandeep said:

When I think of Jaddu in ODI cricket, I think of Sri Lankan batsmen massacring him in CT 2017.  He couldn't even finish his full quota I think.   Boundaries leaked by Jaddu and Umesh Yadav cost India that game.  

But next Wc is in 2023 India and we knw pitches in 2nd half of tournament tend to turn big which where jadeja becomes dangerous.

One of those occasion will happen u think sundar wont face it

9 hours ago, sandeep said:

Jaddu is a finger spinner - with 4 outfielders, on flat tracks, he is not able to control boundaries.  Sundar has proven he can do it in T20 power-play with new ball.  

Even sundar is a finger spinner....jadeja as a longer format bowler is still miles ahead then sundar, krunal . Yes in t20 where u need varitaion his predictability becomes his enemy

Also sundar hasnt been great in list-a domestic 

9 hours ago, sandeep said:

Sundar has already shown equal if not more potential with  bat in hand.  A 21 year old deserves an extended audition more than a 31 year old who has had umpteen chances in the past.  

 

generally in cricket they 27-33 is the age where it says everyone hits their peek 

[prudent_kreeda]

 think he will take over  Krunal's place in T20. 

Do not think he will be very successful in 50 overs in bowling as much in T20.  In 50 overs we should have out & out crafty attacking spinners whatever type it could be righty , leftie , Leggie, Office whaterver , but best 2  wicket taking spinners . 

In 50 overs Kuldeep , Jaddu , Chahal ,R. Chahar would be front runners , by the looks of it.

 

[putrevus]

15 hours ago, sandeep said:

When I think of Jaddu in ODI cricket, I think of Sri Lankan batsmen massacring him in CT 2017.  He couldn't even finish his full quota I think.   Boundaries leaked by Jaddu and Umesh Yadav cost India that game.  

 

Jaddu is a finger spinner - with 4 outfielders, on flat tracks, he is not able to control boundaries.  Sundar has proven he can do it in T20 power-play with new ball.  

 

Sundar has already shown equal if not more potential with  bat in hand.  A 21 year old deserves an extended audition more than a 31 year old who has had umpteen chances in the past.  

 

 

Sundar has done nothing of that sort to prove that he is better than Jadeja in anything.He is an offspinner, not a wrist spinner.I would take a left arm finger spinner over offspinner any day.

 

This guys bats at no8 for his state team and we want him to bat at no5.He is the text book definition of bits and pieces player as of now.

Edited November 16, 2019 by putrevus

[Straight Drive]

Sundar's batting style is not suited for T20i format and would be waste of batting position if he is made to bat anywhere in top 6.

[Ankit_sharma03]

https://www.hotstar.com/in/sports/cricket/syed-mushtaq-ali-trophy-2019/tamil-nadu-vs-jharkhand-m193146/match-clips/highlights-tamil-nadu-seal-sf-spot/1260014273

 

Sundar todays innings, Great head position so straight 

Ok im in for this idea at 5 but still wud prefer him to play 1-2 yrs of domestic up the order n do better with bat . For t20 we need to try sky, dube before for try sundar at that slot. We have enough time to try all these if we stop wasting time on guys like jadeja n pandey 

 

Also for This RCB needs to use his batting better

 

[Vijy]

sundar is a good batsman, but he is not a genuine power hitter. however, if he develops both his batting and bowling, he can make the no. 6 or no. 7 spot in ODIs his own.