Dada 2004 team vs Kohli 2019 Team in test , who ll win in Indian conditions ?

[Ankit_sharma03]

4 minutes ago, ShoonyaSifar said:

Serious question, did you watch that Test when Krejza made his debut? The guy was THRASHED. Reason why his test career ended at 2 tests.

did u watch the o keefe match pitch that u quoted that match both teams were struggling to score 

[ShoonyaSifar]

8 minutes ago, Ankit_sharma03 said:

did u watch the o keefe match pitch that u quoted that match both teams were struggling to score 

Lol do you realise bringing the quality of pitch into the discussion invalidates every single example you’ve quoted so far to show how poor that 2004 bunch was vs spin?

 

And yes I did watch every single ball. Pitch wasn’t as bad our batting unit made it appear. Aussies scored close to 300 in each innings, we barely crossed 100 in both the innings losing last 6-7 wickets for almost nothing each time.

 

Now that you have your answer, did you watch the Krejza debut test?

Edited November 20, 2019 by ShoonyaSifar

[gattaca]

24 minutes ago, putrevus said:

no on dust bowls and spinning pitches this current lineup is no match to that lineup. Everyone in that lineup was an excellent player of spin. I would not call even Kohli an excellent player of spin in this lineup.Bhajji and Kumble would be deadly against this line up.

 

The same cannot be said about Ashwin and Jadeja against that line up.Sehwag murdered Murali and Warne .

Yet they lost and folded to Shaun dual , Giles and many no name spinners ?

[Ankit_sharma03]

24 minutes ago, ShoonyaSifar said:

 

And yes I did watch every single ball. Pitch wasn’t as bad our batting unit made it appear. Aussies scored close to 300 in each innings, we barely crossed 100 in both the innings losing last 6-7 wickets for almost nothing each time.

aussies scored with help of our dropping catches

n hows it a good pitch if team is making 260 n 285

 

About michale clarke argument , if these guys have been troubled with unknown spinners like keefe on that pitch so have been those guys on turners by clarke who was a part timer btw

24 minutes ago, ShoonyaSifar said:

Now that you have your answer, did you watch the Krejza debut test?

ohh yes i did that was ganguly last test where he got a duck in last innings, the test where gambhir was banned....aur info chahiye 

where aussies scored 300+ in one innings unlike pune test where they felt short of 300 both times so that was a better

[Stan AF]

People overhyping the present team. Lest not forget that this is the same team which lost 7 test matches to subpar SENA teams last year.

[putrevus]

52 minutes ago, gattaca said:

Yet they lost and folded to Shaun dual , Giles and many no name spinners ?

Yes they did, didn't Kohli's team lose to Steve o Keefe. It happens to anyone but in general that team had better  players of spin.IMO Sehwag might be the best player of spin ever , I rate him higher than Sachin and Sunny .

 

 

[ShoonyaSifar]

11 minutes ago, Ankit_sharma03 said:

aussies scored with help of our dropping catches

n hows it a good pitch if team is making 260 n 285

 

About michale clarke argument , if these guys have been troubled with unknown spinners like keefe on that pitch so have been those guys on turners by clarke who was a part timer btw

ohh yes i did that was ganguly last test where he got a duck in last innings, the test where gambhir was banned....aur info chahiye 

where aussies scored 300+ in one innings unlike pune test where they felt short of 300 both times so that was a better

Going round and round. A team scoring 285 in 3rd innings of a test is absolutely normal. Was it a turning pitch? Yes, but 105 and 107? You decide.

 

If you indeed watched that Nagpur test, you would not call 12/358 in 75 overs as a performance a bowler would be proud of. IIRC his first innings figures were 2/200 at one stage

[ShoonyaSifar]

33 minutes ago, Stan AF said:

People overhyping the present team. Lest not forget that this is the same team which lost 7 test matches to subpar SENA teams last year.

We have beaten Aus (without Smith and Warner), WI (who could very well lose to Afg soon), SA (who lost to SL at home) and BD (who were thrashed even by AFG) in tests recently. Kohli PR team is doing its best to ensure WC loss (owing a lot to to his terrible captaincy) gets wiped out completely 

[Ankit_sharma03]

17 minutes ago, ShoonyaSifar said:

Going round and round. A team scoring 285 in 3rd innings of a test is absolutely normal. Was it a turning pitch? Yes, but 105 and 107? You decide.

Ofcourse we played poorely in pune but that kreza pitch was also way better then pune one, even aussies wnt have scored much had we not dropped 5 catches of smith 

 

Ofcourse those guys were better player of spin but didnt mean they cudnt be troubled and this side isnt that gr8 against spin yet have produced better  results . 

 

Kreza took 215/8 which isnt bad as well that to in 1st innings for a foreigner spinner....he was going for runs at start but good comeback to restrict them under 500 on a good pitch . And he has dravid on 0 a set sehwag on 66 

Edited November 20, 2019 by Ankit_sharma03

[gattaca]

30 minutes ago, putrevus said:

Yes they did, didn't Kohli's team lose to Steve o Keefe. It happens to anyone but in general that team had better  players of spin.IMO Sehwag might be the best player of spin ever , I rate him higher than Sachin and Sunny .

 

 

That proves dust bowls are lottery. 

[Ankit_sharma03]

2 minutes ago, gattaca said:

That proves dust bowls are lottery. 

they are ....who ever bats last will always be in trouble

[maniac]

I don’t think the current gen bar Pujara don’t have the patience to bat long innings.

 

The moment the ball stars swinging  and zipping, some of our batsmen start to go into T20 mode in tests . I used to make fun of Dhoni and Jadeja for doing that in tests but I have even seen our main batsmen Rahane, Rahul and  Rohit do that.

 

Kohli or Rohit or even Rahane might play some flamboyant innings that looks better than Laxman, Sachin or even Dravid(has he played any in tests) but they cannot even come close to the grit of those guys to bat hours against venemous bowling in tough conditions.

 

Also @Ankit_sharma03 has skipped the slip catching comparison. Are you telling me that dropping Sachin or Dravid is the same as dropping Bavuma and Mushfiqur Rahim?

Edited November 20, 2019 by maniac

[Ankit_sharma03]

12 minutes ago, maniac said:

I don’t think the current gen bar Pujara don’t have the patience to bat long innings.

Havent u seen mayank bat

Kohli has 7-8 double hundred 

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The moment the ball stars swinging  and zipping, some of our batsmen start to go into T20 mode in tests . I used to make fun of Dhoni and Jadeja for doing that in tests but I have even seen our main batsmen Rahane, Rahul and  Rohit do that.

Swinging in Indian condition that to with SG ball , that will happen like rarely 

If it does ishant will be lethal 

 

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Kohli or Rohit or even Rahane might play some flamboyant innings that looks better than Laxman, Sachin or even Dravid(has he played any in tests) but they cannot even come close to the grit of those guys to bat hours against venemous bowling in tough conditions.

one of those myth u hve u in head like u had about openers around the world value of taylor/smith in t20 vs ruseell

talking just about grit just watch 3rd test batting in SA by kohli, pujara,rahane against a 4 man pace bowling attack on unplayable pitch. utter nonsense that these guys dnt have grit.....

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Also @Ankit_sharma03 has skipped the slip catching comparison. Are you telling me that dropping Sachin or Dravid is the same as dropping Bavuma and Mushfiqur Rahim?

yes slip catching is less then that team

 

But current team has a 5 man bowling attack which gives no breathing space n bowling wins u games. In same 2004 aussie team showed it coz all it takes is one ball for batsman to get out n these guys have 5 bowlers to do that . No batting line up thrives when their is no respite on any end. So many sides have just come with bavuma n mushfiqur in last few years.....how is this team taking 20 wkts despite dropping catches....answer coz the bowlers keep producing chances. Bowling always wins u test matches not batting which is why we had many draws then n many wins now 

 

I think u have not counted DK as keeper vs Saha huge diff.....and its not that on days those guys didnt drop catches. Our catching has improved then it was 2 yrs ago 

 

Are u giving a guarantee that will drop catches n those 2004 team wont.

 

Edited November 20, 2019 by Ankit_sharma03

[maniac]

15 minutes ago, Ankit_sharma03 said:

Havent u seen mayank bat

Kohli has 7-8 double hundred 

Swinging in Indian condition that to with SG ball , that will happen like rarely 

If it does ishant will be lethal 

 

one of those myth u hve u in head like u had about openers around the world value of taylor/smith in t20 vs ruseell

talking just about grit just watch 3rd test batting in SA by kohli, pujara,rahane against a 4 man pace bowling attack on unplayable pitch. utter nonsense that these guys dnt have grit.....

yes slip catching is less then that team

 

But current team has a 5 man bowling attack which gives no breathing space n bowling wins u games. In same 2004 aussie team showed it coz all it takes is one ball for batsman to get out n these guys have 5 bowlers to do that . No batting line up thrives when their is no respite on any end. So many sides have just come with bavuma n mushfiqur in last few years.....how is this team taking 20 wkts despite dropping catches....answer coz the bowlers keep producing chances. Bowling always wins u test matches not batting which is why we had many draws then n many wins now 

 

I think u have not counted DK as keeper vs Saha huge diff.....and its not that on days those guys didnt drop catches. Our catching has improved then it was 2 yrs ago 

 

Are u giving a guarantee that will drop catches n those 2004 team wont.

 

Wait hold on. Are you going by India’s dominance at home?

 

Under Azharuddin we used to white wash teams at home left and right.

 

Apart from that loss to England in 2012, we were unbeatable under Dhoni as well in India.

 

Yes we have the best pace attack no doubt which we have never had but it hasn’t changed anything new we are massacring teams at home like we always have, maybe the difference is with fast bowlers and that too only in the last 2-3 series at home.

 

There was nothing mercurial about any of those innings in the 3rd test. You are getting confused there are good innings under a situation and then there are standout innings.

 

No one remembers Karun Nair’s 300, everyone remembers a knock of 14(91) from Sachin against one of the finest spells of bowling by Steyn at his peak in Cape Town.No one remembers Mayank or Rohits 200s in recent times but everyone remembers the Sachin-Azhar partnership or VVS-Dravid partnership or Dada-Dravid partnership in England. There is nothing nostalgic about it. If you have seen enough cricket you can see the quality in front of you.

 

Since you are in the film line let me give you a relevant analogy, Simple the newer devotional shows might be leagues better in terms of technical aspects, CGI, good looking actors etc etc but they don’t even come close to the story telling or the acting performances of the old Ramayan and Mahabharat because of the quality of the content. Nothing nostalgic about it.

Edited November 20, 2019 by maniac

[Ankit_sharma03]

7 minutes ago, maniac said:

Wait hold on. Are you going by India’s dominance at home?

didnt u read the title if a games happens in home condition so what else wud be the criteria 

 

7 minutes ago, maniac said:

 

Apart from that loss to England in 2012, we were unbeatable under Dhoni as well in India.

yea coz for some period even dhoni had zak n ishant at peak, shami umesh for some games

the point is in this teams win fast bowlers are playing a huge role as well which is making it worse for opposition

 

Are u saying a 2 man bowling attack is better then 5

7 minutes ago, maniac said:

Yes we have the best pace attack no doubt which we have never had but it hasn’t changed anything new we are massacring teams at home like we always have, maybe the difference is with fast bowlers and that too only in the last 2-3 series at home.

ofcourse it has , Indian fast bowlers in last few years has had the most 20 wkt haul in world 

In 2000s we were as dominating

Aussie beat us under ganguly

NZ drew series under ganguly

ENG drew series under dravid 

PAk drew series under ganguly 

SA drew series under dhoni , dravid

 

these guys are winning series after series ....forget drawing 

7 minutes ago, maniac said:

There was nothing mercurial about any of those innings in the 3rd test. You are getting confused there are good innings under a situation and then there are standout innings.

Did u see the pitch .....SA were trying to get the match called off. Even standing on that pitch was an achievement. In that context of the match those were outstanding innings

 

7 minutes ago, maniac said:

No one remembers Karun Nair’s 300, everyone remembers a knock of 14(91) from Sachin against one of the finest spells of bowling by Steyn at his peak in Cape Town.No one remembers Mayank or Rohits 200s in recent times but everyone remembers the Sachin-Azhar partnership or VVS-Dravid partnership or Dada-Dravid partnership in England. There is nothing nostalgic about it. If you have seen enough cricket you can see the quality in front of you.

Wo to public ka nostalgia hai .....

surely vvs n dravid was the greates partnership so how does that make kohli less a batsman

 

u want me to take kohli record vs SA in sa n compare it to laxman n dravid 

Ppl do remember kohli n pujara partnership in SA 2nd test 

Ppl do remember kohli n rahane partnership in melbourne in 3rd test 2014

 

the diff is interest gone down in cricket 

7 minutes ago, maniac said:

Since you are in the film line let me give you a relevant analogy, Simple the newer devotional shows might be leagues better in terms of technical aspects, CGI, good looking actors etc etc but they don’t even come close to the story telling or the acting performances of the old Ramayan and Mahabharat because of the quality of the content. Nothing nostalgic about it.

how does that analogy fits here???

srsly ru saying kohli, rahane n pujara lacks quality ?

 

Here is a better analogy

at that time we played like underdogs most days n win felt great now winning is an habbit ........an underdog story will always be better to watch then watching someone regularly win. 

 

E.G- the Same nidhas final which we won wud have felt even better in those days then now coz then ppl didnt expect us to win much but now we are expected to win from anywhere

[Ankit_sharma03]

35 minutes ago, maniac said:

 

Under Azharuddin we used to white wash teams at home left and right.

 

in 1993 WI drew series 

Drew series vs Pak at home in 1998-99

Pak won asian test championship

 

We only whitewashed SL, ZImb, Eng under him and at that zimb n SL were not great sides 

 

 kohli is yet to loose a series forget draw or loss, thats the diff

 

No way on earth can a 1-2 bowler attack be better then 4-5 bowler attack. Which is what made WI n Aus gr8 to relentless bowling attack 

Edited November 20, 2019 by Ankit_sharma03

[maniac]

4 minutes ago, Ankit_sharma03 said:

in 1993 WI drew series 

Drew series vs Pak at home in 1998-99

Pak won asian test championship

 

We only whitewashed SL, ZImb, Eng under him and at that zimb n SL were not great sides 

 

 kohli is yet to loose a series forget draw or loss, thats the diff

 

No way on earth can a 1-2 bowler attack be better then 4-5 bowler attack. Which is what made WI n Aus gr8 to relentless bowling attack 

You are missing the context on purpose. Don’t be thick. Did I say the previous bowling attacks were better?

 

Let me break it down to you

 

I said India has the best fast bowling attack in their history 

 

Indian team has always been dominant at home. Stop nitpicking one or 2 losses. Didn’t Kohli lose a test to Aus a couple of years back at home? Dhoni lost to Eng. things happen.Yes the only difference is our spinners even likes of Raju,Chauhan etc used to roll opposition over but now our potent fast bowling attack gets the job done. Have I denied that

 

 

Having said that the bottom line- we have always been good at home.
 

The team from 2000s with the supposedly weaker bowling line ups got better results abroad. It’s a myth that only bowling wins you games. If that is the case Pakistan in the 90s would have been the no.1 team in the world. Indian bowling has been more than decent for some time now, it’s our batsmen that screwed up. In 2011 and 2014 leg of overseas tours atleast 3-4 tests could have been saved with decent batting. 
 

Now don’t misquote me, I never said that the current batting line up is bad, it is the best in the world right now relatively speaking but it doesn’t hold a candle to batting line ups of the past from India leave alone world.

 

Quality of teams has gone down. Have you seen the SA  teams of 90s and 2000s that visited India and compare them to the one that just visited. Srilanka never won a test in India but can you even compare the previous Srilankan teams to the current ones. By the way this weak Lankan team whitewashed SA. Guess who won them the series, their batsmen along with bowlers.That puts some perspective on the quality of cricket doesn’t it?

 

I am not putting down the current Indian team but you are talking as if we are the Aus of the 90s 2000s or WI of 70s and 80s. 
 

As I said bowling in Indian conditions the current team is better but batting the previous gen is way better and fielding in tests is a no contest the previous gen.

 

Hope that clears things 

 

 

 

[mani sha]

Pitch toss would matter - a Kotla pitch with kumble on day 5 is unbeatable 

 

a spinning pitch with peak kumble bhajji and sehwag - sorry current team looses 

 

batter friendly pitch and it might be a draw 

 

fast pitch , swing pitch - current team wins 

[Ankit_sharma03]

1 hour ago, maniac said:

You are missing the context on purpose. Don’t be thick. Did I say the previous bowling attacks were better?

m not missing the point....ur talking random ****

 

What is the tittle of the thread ????

Dada 2004 team vs Kohli 2019 Team in test , who ll win in Indian conditions ?

 

Now what part of this is diff to understand that compare how these 2 teams will stack up against each other at home so why are u giving me overseas xample which makes no sense in this case...

Overseas n Indian condition will be a diff ball game.

Do u think ill mention pujara, rohit, umesh as crucial factors overseas ???

 

Its a simple question who will win if they play against each other in home condition. How thick are u not to understand that 

Quote

 

I said India has the best fast bowling attack in their history 

 

Indian team has always been dominant at home. Stop nitpicking one or 2 losses. Didn’t Kohli lose a test to Aus a couple of years back at home? Dhoni lost to Eng. things happen.Yes the only difference is our spinners even likes of Raju,Chauhan etc used to roll opposition over but now our potent fast bowling attack gets the job done. Have I denied that

Kohli lost a test never lost or drew series

Ganguly, dravid, Azhar have lost or drew series . Loosing a test match v/s a series is a huge diff

 

Quote

 

Having said that the bottom line- we have always been good at home.

SO does that mean we cant be better?? Aussies were also always good but came a time when they were unbeatable 

 

These fast bowler have made us even better just look at how they are not even leaving wkts for spinners when earlier overseas opening batsman use to score until spinners came, here these guys are running through half sides by then

 

3 bowlers avg under 25 at home in a bowling v/s one bowler avg under 25 at home makes a huge huge diff

 

Quote

 

The team from 2000s with the supposedly weaker bowling line ups got better results abroad. It’s a myth that only bowling wins you games. If that is the case Pakistan in the 90s would have been the no.1 team in the world. Indian bowling has been more than decent for some time now, it’s our batsmen that screwed up. In 2011 and 2014 leg of overseas tours atleast 3-4 tests could have been saved with decent batting. 
 

Who said bowling alone will win u ??? I said ultimately bowling makes the diff ....ur talking as if current batting side is thin as a minnow side 

Pakistan was a top side in 90s who suffered becoz of match fixing, poor catching and inconsistent batting 

 

In cricket all dept need to click but at the end its bowling that makes a diff coz matches are won by taking 20 wkts only . 

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Quality of teams has gone down. Have you seen the SA  teams of 90s and 2000s that visited India and compare them to the one that just visited. Srilanka never won a test in India but can you even compare the previous Srilankan teams to the current ones. By the way this weak Lankan team whitewashed SA. Guess who won them the series, their batsmen along with bowlers.That puts some perspective on the quality of cricket doesn’t it?

Hows is that our fault?? We can only play what we get 

How does that make kohli,ashin, jadeja, shami, pujara less of players 

 

Dont we celebrate wen we drew series in england under ganguly......that side didnt have bowlers like anderson, broad, swann who had the biggest impact for them in terms of result at home

Quote

 

I am not putting down the current Indian team but you are talking as if we are the Aus of the 90s 2000s or WI of 70s and 80s. 
 

Nobody is other then shastri and that thing doesnt even matter for this contest 

 

Edited November 20, 2019 by Ankit_sharma03

[Ankit_sharma03]

35 minutes ago, mani sha said:

Pitch toss would matter - a Kotla pitch with kumble on day 5 is unbeatable 

a spinning pitch with peak kumble bhajji and sehwag - sorry current team looses 

disagree- ashwin n jadeja has been as effective and going by number even more

They can play vihari on such surface and on a turner any part timer can be lethal as seen with guys like clarke n elgar or if they play bumrah he ll be unplayable with variable bounce

 

Plus on such surface it gets easy to reverse as pitch is rough so advantage current team with 4/5 bowlers vs 2 bowlers

 

Only problem will be if current side bats last 

 

Aus in 2004 won with fast bowlers over us when we had kumble n bhajji 

35 minutes ago, mani sha said:

batter friendly pitch and it might be a draw 

Again current team will have advantage with its fast bowlers like shami , bumrah who can do anything on any surface.....plus they ll get to reverse as its SG ball so advantage current team. 

 

Infact current side can put mayank, rohit, kohli, pandya, pant, jadeja in home condition to score quickly giving them advantage over that side who only had sehwag, sachin scoring at better rate

35 minutes ago, mani sha said:

 

fast pitch , swing pitch - current team wins 

current team has ishant bhuvi to for that