Harsh Thakor Posted January 21, 2020 Posted January 21, 2020 (edited) I am trying to analyze whether standard of test cricket genuinely improved in last 25 years.I have selected a list of 1st and 2nd world test xis of 1970-94 and 1995-2020.Some cricketers have overlapped decades but I have placed them in the eras which shaped the major part of their careers .Wasim,Ambrose Lara and Tendulkar are such examples or even excluding Sobers and Graeme Pollock. Test World xi of 1970-94 Barry Richards Sunil Gavaskar Viv Richards Greg Chappell Javed Miandad Ian Botham Imran Khan Alan Knott Malcolm Marshall Wasim Akram Abdul Qadir 2nd world XI 1970-94 Gordon Greenidge Geoff Boycott Ian Chappell Alan Border Zaheer Abbas Tony Greig Rodney Marsh Richard Hadlee Dennis Lillee Curtly Ambrose Bishen Bedi 1995-2020 -1st test world XI Virendra Sehwag Graeme Smith Brian Lara Sachin Tendulkar Virat Kohli Jacques Kallis Adam Gilchrist Shane Warne Dale Steyn Alan Donald Glen Mcgrath 2nd World XI-1995-2020 Matthew Hayden Alistair Cook Rahul Dravid Steve Smith Ricky Ponting AB Devilliers Andrew Flintoff Waqar Younus Shoaib Akhtar Courtney Walsh Muthiah Murlitharan Perhaps not even a whisker seperates the teams of both the eras.Both sides have equally attacking batsmen in the middle order and equally lethal bowling. The likes of Sehwag ,Sachin,Lara Kohli and Kallis are a perfect match for Barry,Gavaskar,Viv,Greg and Javed. 1970-94 bowling attack has more craft or variety with Wasim ,Qadir and Malcolm in its ranks but 1995-20 side attack has more skill, speed and control with the qualities of Mcgrath,Donald,Steyn and Warne. 1970-94 XI has more allrounders. Both have match winners but the difference may well be the match-winning prowess of Adam Gilchrist and Shane Warne as against the magical craft of Wasim Akram. If I had to guess I would back 1995-2020 World XI with improved athleticism,professionalism or or fitness in sport .Thus test cricket standard has not declined in the last 25 years but remained on par .Scoring rate has improved ,bowling craft increased and fielding standards improved. The 2nd xi's are also more or less evenly matched with the latter era team being more agressive or dynamic.The variety in the 1995-20 2nd xi may give it an edge also.No doubt 1970-94 bowling attack is more potent .1995-20 has a more powerful batting line up.With a gun on my ahead I would back the 1995-20 2nd world XI with improved fitness and athleticism in recent times as well as scoring rate. Edited January 22, 2020 by Harsh Thakor
Straight Drive Posted January 21, 2020 Posted January 21, 2020 (edited) None of great Indian spin quartet spinners in Test 11 of 70 to 94. Well selected. Edited January 21, 2020 by Straight Drive
kohli Posted January 21, 2020 Posted January 21, 2020 How dravid & sanga both missed from even 2nd xi
Forward Defence Posted January 21, 2020 Posted January 21, 2020 Why two different elevens for each eras? Matthew Hayden should be an automatic selection. Underwood and Lance Gibbs can also be considered in Qadir's place if you don't want to select Indian spinners. Walsh, Ambrose, Akram, Younis etc. have played a fair bit of cricket in both eras. So has Sachin and Lara.
kohli Posted January 21, 2020 Posted January 21, 2020 1995 -2020 first test xi sehwag G smith s smith sachin lara kallis gilly akram styen mcgrath murli 1995-2020 2nd test xi hayden cook dravid ponting kohli sanga pollack warne Donald ambrose waqar
kohli Posted January 21, 2020 Posted January 21, 2020 1 hour ago, Harsh Thakor said: I am trying to asses whether standard of test cricket genuinely improved in last 25 years.I have selected a list of 1st and 2nd world test xis of 1970-94 and 1995-2020 Test World xi of 1970-94 Barry Richards Sunil Gavaskar Viv Richards Greg Chappell Javed Miandad Ian Botham Imran Khan Alan Knott Malcolm Marshall Dennis Lillee Abdul Qadir 2nd world XI 1970-94 Gordon Greenidge Geoff Boycott Ian Chappell Alan Border Zaheer Abbas Tony Greig Kapil Dev Rodney Marsh Richard Hadlee Andy Roberts Bishen Bedi 1995-2020 -1st test world XI Virendra Sehwag Graeme Smith Brian Lara Sachin Tendulkar Virat Kohli Jacques Kallis Adam Gilchrist Dale Steyn Shane Warne Wasim Akram Glen Mcgrath 2nd World XI-1995-2020 Gautam Gambhir Alistair Cook Hashim Amla Steve Smith Ricky Ponting AB Devilliers Andrew Flintoff Waqar Younus Curtly Ambrose Courtney Walsh Muthiah Murlitharan Perhaps not even a whisker sepertaes the teams of both the eras.1995-2020 have equally attacking batsmen in the middle order and equally lethal bowling.1970-94 XI has more al lrounders.Both have match winners but the difference may well be Adam Gilchrist and Shane Warne as well as the magical craft of Wasim Akram.If I had to guess I would back 1995-2020 with improved athleticism,professionalism or or fitness in sport .Thus test cricket standard has not declined in the last 25 years but remained on par .Scoring rate has improved ,bowling craft increased and fielding standards improved. The 2nd xi's are also more or less evenly matched with the latter era team being more agressive or dynamic.The variety in the 1995-20 2nd xi may give it an edge also. Too many wrong selection . How qadir is in first test xi. Both qadir & bedi played 67 test, bedi has 266 wkt @28 & qadir has 236 @32. Any justification??? express bowling, raki05, Vk1 and 1 other 4
Harsh Thakor Posted January 21, 2020 Author Posted January 21, 2020 3 hours ago, kohli said: Too many wrong selection . How qadir is in first test xi. Both qadir & bedi played 67 test, bedi has 266 wkt @28 & qadir has 236 @32. Any justification??? Is cricket al about statistics?Dicky Bird chose Qadir in his all time XI while Viv Richards rated him the most deadly bowler he ever faced.Even Richie Benaud rated him club se to the top.No doubt Bedi was a true great or legend but could not fox the opposition like Qadir who bemused the greatest of batsmen. sandeep 1
Harsh Thakor Posted January 21, 2020 Author Posted January 21, 2020 3 hours ago, Forward Defence said: Why two different elevens for each eras? Matthew Hayden should be an automatic selection. Underwood and Lance Gibbs can also be considered in Qadir's place if you don't want to select Indian spinners. Walsh, Ambrose, Akram, Younis etc. have played a fair bit of cricket in both eras. So has Sachin and Lara. Very valid point on clashing eras but chosen era in which major career took place or impact launched.Wasim,Sachin and Lara all stated before 1995 or even Warne but had their main periods from 1995.That is why Sobers and Pollock not included in 1970-94 team. However great Gibbs or Underwood were they could not be the equal of Qadir in pure bowling artistry or match his wizardry.
Harsh Thakor Posted January 21, 2020 Author Posted January 21, 2020 3 hours ago, kohli said: How dravid & sanga both missed from even 2nd xi Apologise for leaving out Dravid who could well replace Hashim Amla but preferred Gilly to Danga with his superior prowess as a match winner. Vilander 1
kohli Posted January 21, 2020 Posted January 21, 2020 11 minutes ago, Harsh Thakor said: Apologise for leaving out Dravid who could well replace Hashim Amla but preferred Gilly to Danga with his superior prowess as a match winner. And Gambhir over Hayden???
Harsh Thakor Posted January 21, 2020 Author Posted January 21, 2020 4 minutes ago, kohli said: And Gambhir over Hayden??? Really sorry there.you are right on Hayden.Dravid and Amla were touch and go.
Harsh Thakor Posted January 21, 2020 Author Posted January 21, 2020 3 hours ago, kohli said: Too many wrong selection . How qadir is in first test xi. Both qadir & bedi played 67 test, bedi has 266 wkt @28 & qadir has 236 @32. Any justification??? What do you feel about my reply on Qadir?
kohli Posted January 21, 2020 Posted January 21, 2020 1 minute ago, Harsh Thakor said: What do you feel about my reply on Qadir? I didn’t seen them playing live . I only check both of status. I think ur point is valied . Did you seen my both test xi after 1995-2020.
Harsh Thakor Posted January 22, 2020 Author Posted January 22, 2020 16 hours ago, kohli said: I didn’t seen them playing live . I only check both of status. I think ur point is valied . Did you seen my both test xi after 1995-2020. Great teams.What about 1970-94? Any list ? Do see my edited work with some important changes like putting Wasim and Ambrose in 1970-94 teams.Agree with that as that is where they had the major part of their careers.It wast he opposite in the case of Lara and Sachin.
kohli Posted January 22, 2020 Posted January 22, 2020 22 hours ago, Harsh Thakor said: I am trying to analyze whether standard of test cricket genuinely improved in last 25 years.I have selected a list of 1st and 2nd world test xis of 1970-94 and 1995-2020.Some cricketers have overlapped decades but I have placed them in the eras which shaped the major part of their careers .Wasim,Ambrose Lara and Tendulkar are such examples or even excluding Sobers and Graeme Pollock. Test World xi of 1970-94 Barry Richards Sunil Gavaskar Viv Richards Greg Chappell Javed Miandad Ian Botham Imran Khan Alan Knott Malcolm Marshall Wasim Akram Abdul Qadir 2nd world XI 1970-94 Gordon Greenidge Geoff Boycott Ian Chappell Alan Border Zaheer Abbas Tony Greig Rodney Marsh Richard Hadlee Dennis Lillee Curtly Ambrose Bishen Bedi 1995-2020 -1st test world XI Virendra Sehwag Graeme Smith Brian Lara Sachin Tendulkar Virat Kohli Jacques Kallis Adam Gilchrist Shane Warne Dale Steyn Alan Donald Glen Mcgrath 2nd World XI-1995-2020 Matthew Hayden Alistair Cook Rahul Dravid Steve Smith Ricky Ponting AB Devilliers Andrew Flintoff Waqar Younus Shoaib Akhtar Courtney Walsh Muthiah Murlitharan Perhaps not even a whisker seperates the teams of both the eras.Both sides have equally attacking batsmen in the middle order and equally lethal bowling. The likes of Sehwag ,Sachin,Lara Kohli and Kallis are a perfect match for Barry,Gavaskar,Viv,Greg and Javed. 1970-94 bowling attack has more craft or variety with Wasim ,Qadir and Malcolm in its ranks but 1995-20 side attack has more skill, speed and control with the qualities of Mcgrath,Donald,Steyn and Warne. 1970-94 XI has more allrounders. Both have match winners but the difference may well be the match-winning prowess of Adam Gilchrist and Shane Warne as against the magical craft of Wasim Akram. If I had to guess I would back 1995-2020 World XI with improved athleticism,professionalism or or fitness in sport .Thus test cricket standard has not declined in the last 25 years but remained on par .Scoring rate has improved ,bowling craft increased and fielding standards improved. The 2nd xi's are also more or less evenly matched with the latter era team being more agressive or dynamic.The variety in the 1995-20 2nd xi may give it an edge also.No doubt 1970-94 bowling attack is more potent .1995-20 has a more powerful batting line up.With a gun on my ahead I would back the 1995-20 2nd world XI with improved fitness and athleticism in recent times as well as scoring rate. Your pre 95 test xi is good. Why do you rate kohli is better test batsman than smith & ponting??? , post 95 test replace akhtar with rabada or cummins.pollock in & Flintoff out
zen Posted January 22, 2020 Posted January 22, 2020 Apart from Pakistanis, I haven’t seen anyone select so many Pakistanis in a W11 Those are not my teams but from the teams in OP, the one with less Pakistanis should do better velu and raki05 2
adi B Posted January 22, 2020 Posted January 22, 2020 Which ever team has the majestic majid Khan in itr wins vvvslaxman, velu and raki05 3
vvvslaxman Posted January 22, 2020 Posted January 22, 2020 6 minutes ago, adi B said: Which ever team has the majestic majid Khan in itr wins Beat me lol
zen Posted January 22, 2020 Posted January 22, 2020 (edited) For the 70-94 period, if we look at the away averages (to account for umpiring in countries such as Pak): Batsmen: View overall figures [change view] Opposition team Australia or England or India or New Zealand or Pakistan or South Africa or West Indies Home or away away (home of opposition) Start of match date between 1 Jan 1970 and 1 Jan 1995 Qualifications runs scored greater than or equal to 2000 and batting average greater than or equal to 40 Ordered by batting average (descending) Page 1 of 1 Showing 1 - 16 of 16 First Previous Next Last Return to query menu Cleared query menu Overall figures Player Span Mat Inns NO Runs HS Ave 100 50 0 AR Border (AUS) 1979-1994 66 113 23 5141 200* 57.12 13 27 4 SM Gavaskar (INDIA) 1971-1986 57 100 8 4869 221 52.92 18 20 5 GS Chappell (AUS) 1972-1982 31 54 6 2529 247* 52.68 8 9 4 DL Amiss (ENG) 1972-1977 24 43 4 2002 262* 51.33 7 5 5 M Amarnath (INDIA) 1976-1986 35 59 4 2792 138 50.76 8 16 3 CH Lloyd (WI) 1973-1985 53 84 8 3844 242* 50.57 10 19 2 IVA Richards (WI) 1974-1991 73 115 8 5404 291 50.50 13 31 7 MA Taylor (AUS) 1989-1994 26 45 2 2068 219 48.09 5 14 3 Javed Miandad (PAK) 1976-1993 61 99 8 4288 271 47.12 9 26 5 G Boycott (ENG) 1970-1982 34 65 8 2684 142* 47.08 6 18 3 MD Crowe (NZ) 1983-1994 33 60 6 2459 188 45.53 7 10 4 DI Gower (ENG) 1978-1991 51 89 8 3646 173* 45.01 8 19 3 DC Boon (AUS) 1985-1994 40 70 10 2568 164* 42.80 6 12 5 HA Gomes (WI) 1976-1987 37 61 10 2167 143 42.49 6 9 2 AI Kallicharran (WI) 1973-1981 40 67 6 2586 187 42.39 5 14 6 CG Greenidge (WI) 1974-1990 62 110 7 4349 223 42.22 11 19 7 Border, Amarnath, etc., are better picks than Miandad There are guys like Crowe, who batted well vs WI Pace Bowlers: View overall figures [change view] Opposition team Australia or England or India or New Zealand or Pakistan or South Africa or West Indies Home or away away (home of opposition) Start of match date between 1 Jan 1970 and 1 Jan 1995 Qualifications wickets taken greater than or equal to 100 and bowling average less than or equal to 27 Ordered by bowling average (ascending) Page 1 of 1 Showing 1 - 11 of 11 First Previous Next Last Return to query menu Cleared query menu Overall figures Player Span Mat Inns Balls Runs Wkts BBI BBM Ave Econ SR 5 10 CEL Ambrose (WI) 1988-1993 23 45 6143 2344 123 7/25 10/120 19.05 2.28 49.9 7 1 J Garner (WI) 1979-1987 29 55 6885 2685 136 6/56 9/108 19.74 2.33 50.6 4 0 MD Marshall (WI) 1978-1991 50 93 10912 4726 219 7/22 10/92 21.57 2.59 49.8 14 2 Sir RJ Hadlee (NZ) 1973-1990 39 68 10315 4664 203 9/52 15/123 22.97 2.71 50.8 19 5 Wasim Akram (PAK) 1985-1994 29 51 7056 3109 132 7/119 11/160 23.55 2.64 53.4 11 3 MA Holding (WI) 1975-1987 37 71 8367 3855 163 8/92 14/149 23.65 2.76 51.3 11 2 AME Roberts (WI) 1974-1983 29 56 6961 3104 130 7/54 12/121 23.87 2.67 53.5 9 2 DK Lillee (AUS) 1972-1982 25 46 6753 2904 121 7/89 11/123 24.00 2.58 55.8 8 3 TM Alderman (AUS) 1981-1991 21 39 5557 2616 102 6/128 10/151 25.64 2.82 54.4 10 1 Imran Khan (PAK) 1971-1990 47 77 11089 4857 184 7/40 12/165 26.39 2.62 60.2 13 3 CA Walsh (WI) 1984-1994 41 78 8475 3825 144 6/79 9/94 26.56 2.70 58.8 4 0 Ambrose, Garner, Marshall and Hadlee are in the league of their own with sub 23 avg and sub 51 SR Spinners: View overall figures [change view] Opposition team Australia or England or India or New Zealand or Pakistan or South Africa or West Indies Home or away away (home of opposition) Start of match date between 1 Jan 1970 and 1 Jan 1995 Type of bowler (by style) spin bowler Qualifications wickets taken greater than or equal to 50 Ordered by bowling average (ascending) Page 1 of 1 Showing 1 - 12 of 12 First Previous Next Last Return to query menu Cleared query menu Overall figures Player Span Mat Inns Balls Runs Wkts BBI BBM Ave Econ SR 5 10 SK Warne (AUS) 1993-1994 15 29 5828 1973 84 6/136 9/240 23.48 2.03 69.3 3 0 DL Underwood (ENG) 1970-1982 40 72 10918 3860 136 7/113 12/97 28.38 2.12 80.2 5 2 LR Gibbs (WI) 1973-1976 16 31 4948 1543 53 7/98 9/143 29.11 1.87 93.3 3 0 BS Chandrasekhar (INDIA) 1971-1979 21 34 5382 2657 83 6/38 12/104 32.01 2.96 64.8 7 1 Iqbal Qasim (PAK) 1976-1987 21 36 4949 2015 60 6/40 10/175 33.58 2.44 82.4 2 1 BS Bedi (INDIA) 1971-1979 28 48 8700 3520 102 6/226 10/194 34.50 2.42 85.2 5 1 PH Edmonds (ENG) 1978-1987 19 33 5374 1846 51 7/66 7/66 36.19 2.06 105.3 1 0 JE Emburey (ENG) 1978-1993 29 45 7982 2844 74 7/78 7/114 38.43 2.13 107.8 4 0 JG Bracewell (NZ) 1980-1990 24 42 4987 2282 58 6/51 8/132 39.34 2.74 85.9 1 0 RJ Shastri (INDIA) 1981-1992 38 57 7373 2989 71 5/125 8/179 42.09 2.43 103.8 1 0 S Venkataraghavan (INDIA) 1971-1983 24 39 6512 2723 61 5/95 6/96 44.63 2.50 106.7 1 0 Abdul Qadir (PAK) 1979-1989 25 39 6269 3062 63 7/96 10/211 48.60 2.93 99.5 3 1 Qadir PS that avg with that SR would have been great if Qadir were a batsman Edited January 22, 2020 by zen
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