Delhi Shaheen Bagh anti-Hindu jihadi protest

[sandeep]

49 minutes ago, Audiophile said:

Exactly failure is on all sides.

But a handful of contributors on this forum are using the tragedy to push their biased agendas and pinning the whole thing on their favorite targets.

 

I also think that the protests over CAA etc are political and not innocent.  Of course this played a part here - and blame belongs on that.  But to put it entirely on that, while glossing over the other aspect, the slow and steady drumbeat of increasing prejudice, that is mainstreamed more and more, because slurs and sly attacks are tolerated and not challenged - this is undeniable.  

 

This is nothing new - I am not a Modi fan because I have seen his political speeches in Gujarat - long before he became PM, long before even the Godhra riots took place.  This guy was running around giving speeches using the same logic to inflame public sentiment.  This guy back in 1999 and 2000, was giving election speeches, talking about "those people are the problem - we are trying population control, and they are saying us five, and our 25.  This population argument is very commonly used to attack and demonize.  As if all muslim families have 4 wives and 20 kids running around.  

 

This Modi shamelessly came to my city, even as the 26/11 attacks were not even completely neutralized, and pushed his political agenda.  Not to say that Congress admin didn't deserve criticism - but using a tragedy for personal political gain, just shows you the mindset of a "leader".  A time when the country and people need to unite, not divide.  But some people have different instincts - they don't value unity.  They attempt to leverage divisions for political gains and their agendas.  

 

These folks should be made to live abroad - and suffer the result of negative stereotypes being applied to you - these bhakts should be made to answer questions from ignorant whiteys, like - why do you dotheads **** on the streets all the time.  why do you smell like curry, can you not afford deoderant?  why do you Indians rape and subjugate women and lower castes etc.  Then they will realize how unfair it is to make blanket statements about entire communities based on cherry-picked "facts".  

 

 

[sandeep]

3 hours ago, Vilander said:

right above, anyone posting about crime on humanity is not some pre historic tribal doing us vs them. that trivializing.

If a Rana Ayyub posts selectively about "atrocities" committed on muslims, while saying nothing about hindu victims.  That's tribalism.

 

If folks on this forum, repeatedly post about hindu victims and talk aggressively about justice and vendetta, while not saying one word about muslim victims - that's tribalism.  

 

Both are same.  Both are bigoted.  

 

Choice are yours.  Do you want to be Rana Ayyub of a different flavor?  Or do you want to rise above such bias?  The false narrative of evil hindus persecuting muslims bothers me too.  I know it in my heart and gut that its not true.  But that doesn't mean that in order to negate such a false attack, you have to turn into a mirror image of them.

 

 

Edited March 2, 2020 by sandeep

[coffee_rules]

1 hour ago, sandeep said:

It is not about predicting riots. It is about slow, confused, or in its worst case, intentionally inefficient response, once the rioting starts.  Injecting politics into law enforcement is a problem.  Regardless of which party does it.  

 

There is so much noise out there, propagandists shrieking pogrom on one side, jihad on the other - hard to say what the facts are.  But at a minimum, the police, and the political authorities who they answer to, have made mistakes.  At a minimum.  

This narrative of police inaction, pogrom, delayed action is without a shred of evidence. Just because one tweets it, doesn't make it truth. Please show evidence before throwing such allegations. The same happened in 2002, same here too.  There are a 1000 people arrested, government can't jump the gun and declare who is culprit. Escalation happened on the day Trump left magically. All and sundry have gone around showing how the planning went for that event. HMO was mostly doing fire fighting to keep a brave face for trump, the fact that Muslims planned the riots in some areas went without any clue to them. The aftermath of the riots have caused Hindus to retaliate. 

[sandeep]

2 minutes ago, coffee_rules said:

his narrative of police inaction, pogrom, delayed action is without a shred of evidence. J

I am open to that - I have not claimed otherwise.  

 

2 minutes ago, coffee_rules said:

The aftermath of the riots have caused Hindus to retaliate. 

There is not enough evidence to make this claim either, and give the benefit of "defensive retaliation" to Hindus.  You simply do not know this.  

[Vilander]

1 hour ago, sandeep said:

If a Rana Ayyub posts selectively about "atrocities" committed on muslims, while saying nothing about hindu victims.  That's tribalism.

 

If folks on this forum, repeatedly post about hindu victims and talk aggressively about justice and vendetta, while not saying one word about muslim victims - that's tribalism.  

 

Both are same.  Both are bigoted.  

 

Choice are yours.  Do you want to be Rana Ayyub of a different flavor?  Or do you want to rise above such bias?  The false narrative of evil hindus persecuting muslims bothers me too.  I know it in my heart and gut that its not true.  But that doesn't mean that in order to negate such a false attack, you have to turn into a mirror image of them.

 

 

Not once has rana ayub mentioned hindu victims. She is a hate filled evil person. I would not equate anyone involved in the current conversation trail to that. Thats just me.

[Vilander]

2 hours ago, sandeep said:

But a handful of contributors on this forum are using the tragedy to push their biased agendas and pinning the whole thing on their favorite targets.

 

I also think that the protests over CAA etc are political and not innocent.  Of course this played a part here - and blame belongs on that.  But to put it entirely on that, while glossing over the other aspect, the slow and steady drumbeat of increasing prejudice, that is mainstreamed more and more, because slurs and sly attacks are tolerated and not challenged - this is undeniable.  

 

This is nothing new - I am not a Modi fan because I have seen his political speeches in Gujarat - long before he became PM, long before even the Godhra riots took place.  This guy was running around giving speeches using the same logic to inflame public sentiment.  This guy back in 1999 and 2000, was giving election speeches, talking about "those people are the problem - we are trying population control, and they are saying us five, and our 25.  This population argument is very commonly used to attack and demonize.  As if all muslim families have 4 wives and 20 kids running around.  

 

This Modi shamelessly came to my city, even as the 26/11 attacks were not even completely neutralized, and pushed his political agenda.  Not to say that Congress admin didn't deserve criticism - but using a tragedy for personal political gain, just shows you the mindset of a "leader".  A time when the country and people need to unite, not divide.  But some people have different instincts - they don't value unity.  They attempt to leverage divisions for political gains and their agendas.  

 

These folks should be made to live abroad - and suffer the result of negative stereotypes being applied to you - these bhakts should be made to answer questions from ignorant whiteys, like - why do you dotheads **** on the streets all the time.  why do you smell like curry, can you not afford deoderant?  why do you Indians rape and subjugate women and lower castes etc.  Then they will realize how unfair it is to make blanket statements about entire communities based on cherry-picked "facts".  

 

 

Hearsay, if you hate modi talk about that dont peddle your agenda by attacking other posters. Muslims demographic dominance is a world reality.  Every region has to deal with it. Muslims as a group behave in certain ways and this mandates certain self defence initiatives world over. 

 

Lets look at some facts. Pew research.

 

 

 

 

Muslims have more children than members of the seven other major religious groups analyzed in the study. Muslim women have an average of 2.9 children, significantly above the next-highest group (Christians at 2.6) and the average of all non-Muslims (2.2). In all major regions where there is a sizable Muslim population, Muslim fertility exceeds non-Muslim fertility.

The growth of the Muslim population also is helped by the fact that Muslims have the youngest median age (24 in 2015) of all major religious groups, more than seven years younger than the median age of non-Muslims (32).

[Vilander]

2 hours ago, sandeep said:

But to put it entirely on that, while glossing over the other aspect, the slow and steady drumbeat of increasing prejudice, that is mainstreamed more and more, because slurs and sly attacks are tolerated and not challenged - this is undeniable

Definition of apologist here.

 

Statement : Muslims owned factories tht made acids and procured them and made molotov cocktails in industrial scale and prepared for pitch battles for weeks with even kids skipping school for a week --

ans : oh they did it because evil hindoos hated them and made hate speech

 

hey they have been making much more of that infact there are more than a dozen instances of mullas making hate speech in the build up to the riots --

ans: you are an agenda poster.

 

Lol

[Gollum]

8 hours ago, Audiophile said:

Exactly failure is on all sides. The BJP leaders incited violence. Had the BJP local leaders not made inflammatory statements 

You seem unaware of what happened

I already posted this, look at Jaggi's tweet, there is a thread with dozens of videos, aap chronology samajh lijiye. After that if you believe it was BJP that incited violence, come up with your rebuttal, I will gladly debate. 

On 2/29/2020 at 6:30 AM, Gollum said:

More Shaheen Baghs coming up in different parts of Delhi, blocking metro stations, roads, markets etc causing inconvenience to public. Kapil said he and his group would clear the (illegal) sit-ins at Jaffrabad (metro station had to be closed for more than a week, opened yesterday) and Chandbagh. 

 

Now do explore this thread....40 videos, some 60 instances of actual hate speech !!!

 

 

 

[Deleted_User_1]

6 minutes ago, Gollum said:

You seem unaware of what happened

I already posted this, look at Jaggi's tweet, there is a thread with dozens of videos, aap chronology samajh lijiye. After that if you believe it was BJP that incited violence, come up with your rebuttal, I will gladly debate. 

 

 

I will look at it when I get some time. I can concede that inflammatory comments were made by Muslims too (look I am not going tell you that there are no Muslims in India who have allegiance to foreign govts, cheer for Pak team, etc. etc. I have experienced this myself when I lived there), but this riot could have been prevented by pre-emptive action by Delhi Police, Central and Delhi govt and paramilitary. Modi is the boss, so he has to take some blame. There are Hindu residents on tape saying they suspected the situation was going to blow, so how come the Police punted on this? Either they are just incompetent or afraid of ruffling BJP's feathers. Even for his own image sake, Modi should have done more. After all, many Hindus lost their lives in it. Since he is the most powerful person in India, and it happened in Delhi right under his nose, when he was busy with Trump, this is definitely on him for not taking charge.

[MechEng]

Humans on an average are a failed race. Incapable of resolving issues constructively.

[Gollum]

1 hour ago, Audiophile said:

I will look at it when I get some time. I can concede that inflammatory comments were made by Muslims too

Sure check that thread and lemme know what you make of it. IMO Kapil Mishra's wasn't a hate speech while there were over 50 actual hate speeches by the other side starting from December. 

Quote

but this riot could have been prevented by pre-emptive action by Delhi Police, Central and Delhi govt and paramilitary. Modi is the boss, so he has to take some blame. There are Hindu residents on tape saying they suspected the situation was going to blow, so how come the Police punted on this? Either they are just incompetent or afraid of ruffling BJP's feathers. Even for his own image sake, Modi should have done more. After all, many Hindus lost their lives in it. Since he is the most powerful person in India, and it happened in Delhi right under his nose,

I don't deny, HM Shah needs to take blame here, Things were building up for the last 3 months and in the name of FOE, democratic dissent, tolerance, secularism yada yada the govt sat idle. Need to be more ruthless when one community challenges the state, causes inconvenience to others, holds the national capital hostage. Also this tragedy has shown Delhi police is inept and understaffed, need structural reforms. 

Quote

when he was busy with Trump, this is definitely on him for not taking charge.

What was he supposed to do? Send back Trump? These bilateral visits are planned months in advance, often behind closed doors by bureaucrats, lot at stake. This was POTUS' 1st state visit to India, and we need to court him cos the other side crossed all limits during 370 abrogation. Doesn't matter if Trump is a good guy or not, India should do what is in its interests. You may hate him, we Indians don't care, rather Trump than someone who parrots PakMil/ISI lines, India first. Modi did the right thing by ignoring this issue, otherwise would have made world headlines, not good when we desperately want to attract investments. It was Shah's duty and we can agree he looked out of his depth, but that is what happens when you try to solve a long standing problem in one day, series of mistakes started a long time back.

Edited March 3, 2020 by Gollum

[Deleted_User_1]

19 hours ago, Gollum said:

Sure check that thread and lemme know what you make of it. IMO Kapil Mishra's wasn't a hate speech while there were over 50 actual hate speeches by the other side starting from December. 

I don't deny, HM Shah needs to take blame here, Things were building up for the last 3 months and in the name of FOE, democratic dissent, tolerance, secularism yada yada the govt sat idle. Need to be more ruthless when one community challenges the state, causes inconvenience to others, holds the national capital hostage. Also this tragedy has shown Delhi police is inept and understaffed, need structural reforms. 

What was he supposed to do? Send back Trump? These bilateral visits are planned months in advance, often behind closed doors by bureaucrats, lot at stake. This was POTUS' 1st state visit to India, and we need to court him cos the other side crossed all limits during 370 abrogation. Doesn't matter if Trump is a good guy or not, India should do what is in its interests. You may hate him, we Indians don't care, rather Trump than someone who parrots PakMil/ISI lines, India first. Modi did the right thing by ignoring this issue, otherwise would have made world headlines, not good when we desperately want to attract investments. It was Shah's duty and we can agree he looked out of his depth, but that is what happens when you try to solve a long standing problem in one day, series of mistakes started a long time back.

Don’t be stupid. He can tend to multiple things at one time. It is called multitasking. And he is the most powerful man in India with lots of resources. He can delegate tasks. You mean he did know not trouble was brewing before riots broke. Why was no pre-emptive action taken when the Kashmir valley was blanketed with security forces. It probably prevented riots or terrorist attacks!

 

If he did delegate someone to handle this, where is the accountability? To him a few lives lost is not a big deal as long as he is buying some weapons for India from US. Phuck this man, I am done debating this. No one is going to change anyone’s mind. You Bhakts put him up on a pedestal like he is something special. He has achieved very little in terms of economic progress or reducing poverty which is the ultimate indicator. Instead these distractions are a way to deflect failure.

Edited March 4, 2020 by Audiophile

[diga]

Ah...the goalpost shifts to blaming the govt

[Gollum]

Foreign Minister, Iran

Ofc libbus are cheering, saying 'see Modi, learn from Iran'....

 

[diga]

^ Response to modi cosying upto Trump

[javier26]

Shahrukh, man who pointed gun at cop during Delhi riots, arrested from UP's Shamli

https://www.dnaindia.com/india/report-shahrukh-man-who-pointed-gun-at-cop-during-delhi-riots-arrested-from-up-s-shamli-2815812

 

 

 

[Ranvir]

2 hours ago, Gollum said:

Foreign Minister, Iran

Ofc libbus are cheering, saying 'see Modi, learn from Iran'....

 

Someone should remind them of Nadir Shah and the atrocities he committed on the muslims of Delhi but hey it's ok if it's brother against brother violence isn't it?

[Gollum]

 

[Gollum]

 

[Gollum]