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Why has India been unable to produce another decent finisher in LOIs?


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Posted
12 minutes ago, Ankit_sharma03 said:

Will come with time and experience and once u identify players and tell them we are looking at u for that role they work on it as of now most potential players bat up the order in their domestic sides 

But if a player bats in middle order for their domestic side, it is expected of them to play that role. If Suryakumar Yadav bats at 5 for Mumbai, he doesn't need to be told that he's expected to be finishing games.

Posted

Problem with Kohli is does he has the hitting game, sharma ji can't hit from Ball one,what you need is a player who can give you 15-20 run over suddenly,rohit can but consumes lots of dot balls, one guy who could play that role is sky.

Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, Global.Baba said:

The thread reflects the problem we have with the line of thinking in our cricket today.
 

There are a few things we need to be clear while understanding cricket.

 

1.There is nothing called a “specialist finisher”

finishers become over time

Quote

 

2.There is nothing called a “specialist power hitter”

yes there are - russell, pollard, pandya, yusuf, afridi are specialist power hitter.....not everyone has their skill set 

 

If u make guys like kohli, rohit bat at 6, 7 they wont be specialist anymore coz they are not meant for that role and they will struggle and they did also struggle.

Ull find rarely guys like dhoni, Rahul, raina or few others who cud bat all over order. Even yuvraj didnt find success when he was thrown to open and nor his number were great at 6,7 

Quote

 

3.There is nothing called a “specialist allrounder”

All rounder grow over a period of time.....take a look at kallis or shakib numbers infact most all rounder. They grow with timw

Quote

Point 1 and 2: A good well round batsman will automatically check points 1 and 2. 
 

Nope all round batsman cant be power hitter necessarily 

 

Kohli,smith,williamson,root, babar cant be termed power hitter

Some like rohit also who can cause mayhem needs his time time, whereas guys like i mentioned above can go from ball 1 ...2 completely diff skills. If it was possible for rohit he wont have failed at middle and here ur talking about lower middle order

 

Quote

Bevan was identified as an all format player. He had a mediocre test record, but found his calling in ODIs. He was not a power hitter but he found a slot at 5-6-7 in the competitive Aussie middle order.
 

In his era team cud manage with out a power hitter in lower order coz it was 200-250 era now its 300-350 era. He to wud have struggled like dhoni in last few years if he wont have developed power game

Quote

Was Dravid a finisher? He and Yuvraj got  us over the line in a tense situation in the  Pak game in 2003. Why isn’t Dravid called a finisher?

Dravid got us over the line with yuvraj or dhoni at other end on most days and the pak game ur ref check score card sachin n sehwag had done the most damage that it was one partnership away 

Quote

Rohit and Kohli have finished a lot of games, why aren’t they called finishers?

Kohli is called finisher....

rohit not coz he mostly he gets out around finishing 90% of job

Quote

Yuvraj and Raina were picked for their talent as batsmen not for some specialized power hitting and finishing skills.

Coz those India had none n these guys playing fast was like that , i think dhoni was the 1st picked for his power game

Quote

You pick the best X1 talent batting or bowling and give them roles rather than finding such specialists.

no u pick XI based on roles

U can pick gill ,samson n make them bat at 6 7 coz that has already failed and if u remember even kohli n rohit didnt find success 

Quote

This is why we pick crap players like Dube,Shankar,Jadhav etc. based on this kind of thinking. We even have fans for these types.

All diff examples from each other 

Edited by Ankit_sharma03
Posted
3 minutes ago, TNAmarkFromIndia said:

But if a player bats in middle order for their domestic side, it is expected of them to play that role. If Suryakumar Yadav bats at 5 for Mumbai, he doesn't need to be told that he's expected to be finishing games.

yea he is someone who has done that role for his team n IPL side so now he shud be picked 

 

Now if he doesnt come good thats his problem but he ll also get better with time  at the end international experience is diff. Guys like pandey n iyer have finished games on A level a lot of times but international cricket is lot harder

Posted (edited)

I don't care about (and follow) List A Avgs, but since 2016 (min 1,000 runs): 

 

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Batting position between 4 and 7 remove between 4 and 7 from query
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Overall figures
Player Span Mat Inns NO Runs HS AveDescending BF SR 100 50 0 4s 6s  
AD Mathews (SL) 2016-2019 31 30 8 1336 113 60.72 1720 77.67 2 11 2 113 15 investigate this query
BA Stokes (ENG) 2016-2019 38 33 7 1462 102* 56.23 1551 94.26 2 13 1 113 42 investigate this query
LRPL Taylor (NZ) 2016-2020 41 40 7 1826 181* 55.33 2179 83.79 5 9 1 149 19 investigate this query
Mushfiqur Rahim (BDESH) 2016-2019 25 25 5 1037 110* 51.85 1225 84.65 2 7 0 91 7 investigate this query
JC Buttler (ENG) 2016-2019 46 41 11 1493 110* 49.76 1233 121.08 5 8 5 126 53 investigate this query
MS Dhoni (INDIA) 2016-2019 49 40 9 1244 134 40.12 1514 82.16 1 7 2 87 29

 

  • Only 6 players avg 40+ ( of which 5 have an avg of 50+. Can count Buttler's avg as 50) vs. major teams 

 

 

On the other hand:

 

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Overall figures
Player Span Mat Inns NO Runs HS AveDescending BF SR 100 50 0 4s 6s  
V Kohli (INDIA) 2016-2020 52 52 7 3359 160* 74.64 3498 96.02 12 18 1 296 34 investigate this query
DA Warner (AUS) 2016-2020 42 42 1 2374 179 57.90 2299 103.26 12 6 0 264 38 investigate this query
RG Sharma (INDIA) 2016-2020 53 53 4 2773 171* 56.59 3042 91.15 12 11 3 249 85 investigate this query
JE Root (ENG) 2016-2020 41 39 4 1960 125 56.00 2166 90.48 6 10 0 167 17 investigate this query
SPD Smith (AUS) 2016-2020 34 33 2 1550 164 50.00 1731 89.54 5 8 3 140 13 investigate this query
JM Bairstow (ENG) 2017-2020 34 32 0 1583 139 49.46 1447 109.39 6 4 2 195 41 investigate this query
F du Plessis (SA) 2016-2019 25 24 1 1116 120 48.52 1289 86.57 3 7 1 108 6 investigate this query
UT Khawaja (AUS) 2016-2019 24 23 0 1109 104 48.21 1345 82.45 2 9 1 106 7 investigate this query
S Dhawan (INDIA) 2016-2020 41 41 2 1875 143 48.07 1944 96.45 5 11 2 246 20 investigate this query
Babar Azam (PAK) 2016-2019 34 34 4 1411 115 47.03 1670 84.49 3 7 2 138 9 investigate this query
Q de Kock (SA) 2016-2020 39 39 2 1690 178 45.67 1732 97.57 4 10 2 176 37 investigate this query
AJ Finch (AUS) 2016-2020 54 53 2 2312 153* 45.33 2672 86.52 9 11 4 209 61 investigate this query
KS Williamson (NZ) 2016-2019 47 47 2 1928 118 42.84 2462 78.31 5 10 1 168 21 investigate this query
JJ Roy (ENG) 2016-2020 46 45 0 1893 180 42.06 1781 106.28 4 12 3 221 45 investigate this query
AD Hales (ENG) 2016-2018 29 29 1 1177 171 42.03 1233 95.45 3 8 1 140 17 investigate this query
Fakhar Zaman (PAK) 2017-2019 27 27 1 1055 138 40.57 1141 92.46 2 8 3 120 19
Edited by zen
Posted
5 minutes ago, zen said:

I don't care about (and follow) List A Avgs, but since 2016 (min 1,000 runs): 

 

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Start of match date greater than or equal to 1 Jan 2016 remove greater than or equal to 1 Jan 2016 from query
Batting position between 4 and 7 remove between 4 and 7 from query
Qualifications runs scored greater than or equal to 1000 remove runs scored greater than or equal to 1000 from query and batting average greater than or equal to 40 remove batting average greater than or equal to 40 from query
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Overall figures
Player Span Mat Inns NO Runs HS AveDescending BF SR 100 50 0 4s 6s  
AD Mathews (SL) 2016-2019 31 30 8 1336 113 60.72 1720 77.67 2 11 2 113 15 investigate this query
BA Stokes (ENG) 2016-2019 38 33 7 1462 102* 56.23 1551 94.26 2 13 1 113 42 investigate this query
LRPL Taylor (NZ) 2016-2020 41 40 7 1826 181* 55.33 2179 83.79 5 9 1 149 19 investigate this query
Mushfiqur Rahim (BDESH) 2016-2019 25 25 5 1037 110* 51.85 1225 84.65 2 7 0 91 7 investigate this query
JC Buttler (ENG) 2016-2019 46 41 11 1493 110* 49.76 1233 121.08 5 8 5 126 53 investigate this query
MS Dhoni (INDIA) 2016-2019 49 40 9 1244 134 40.12 1514 82.16 1 7 2 87 29

 

  • Only 5 players avg 50+ (can count Buttler's avg as 50) vs. major teams 

rahim has been smashing them quite well. rather underrated. as for matthews, most of his runs were tuk-tuk 50s that didn't count for a lot IMO. the real impact players are stokes, taylor and buttler with rahim close behind.

Posted

Another factor these days is because since there r 2 new balls, it has taken out dibbly dobbly bowlers. This means that our top order generally can’t turn their arm over which means that the players in the finishing spot (6,7, 8) also have to be ok bowlers capable of bowling atleast 6 overs if required. This is why players like shardul, kedar, Dube, jadeja, sundar, vijay Shankar r always on the radar and ppl like pant, Pandey, dk r so easily out of favor. It’s also why pandya is more vital to the balance than what he would have been in an era where sehwag, Ganguly, Sachin, kohli, yuvi etc can bowl a bit. Another reason of course is that there r way too many games these days which means it’s not easy for the top order to consistently be a 6th bowling option. This is why rohit or kohli don’t bowl these days

Posted (edited)
8 minutes ago, Vijy said:

rahim has been smashing them quite well. rather underrated. as for matthews, most of his runs were tuk-tuk 50s that didn't count for a lot IMO. the real impact players are stokes, taylor and buttler with rahim close behind.

Yeah .... Buttler also has a phenomenal SR .... note that Matthews plays for SL where he may have to do a lot more firefighting relatively so it could impact his SR 

 

On the other hand, Dhoni plays for a team with one of the best top order so his SR is questionable (his avg is low too relative to the top performers)

Edited by zen
Posted
5 minutes ago, zen said:

Yeah .... Buttler also has a phenomenal SR .... note that Matthews plays for SL where he may have to do a lot more firefighting relatively so it could impact his SR 

 

On the other hand, Dhoni plays for a team with one of the best top order so his SR is questionable (his avg is low too relative to the top performers)

well, you are talking about MSD during the decline. I expect his record will look great during the peak. And matthews I am convinced does play with at least half an eye on his avg; I don't fully buy into the weak team argument in his case because rahim has a better SR for a weak team as well.

Posted
3 minutes ago, Vijy said:

well, you are talking about MSD during the decline. I expect his record will look great during the peak.

The above is from 2016. Not sure if everyone else on it is at their respective peak (some players on the list could even have their best years ahead) or in prime form 

 

 

Quote

And matthews I am convinced does play with at least half an eye on his avg; I don't fully buy into the weak team argument in his case because rahim has a better SR for a weak team as well.

Note that BD has batsmen like Tamim, Shakib to support Rahim 

 

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Start of match date greater than or equal to 1 Jan 2016 remove greater than or equal to 1 Jan 2016 from query
Batting position between 1 and 7 remove between 1 and 7 from query
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Overall figures
Player Span Mat Inns NO Runs HS AveDescending BF SR 100 50 0 4s 6s  
AD Mathews (SL) 2016-2019 31 30 8 1336 113 60.72 1720 77.67 2 11 2 113 15 investigate this query
Mushfiqur Rahim (BDESH) 2016-2019 25 25 5 1037 110* 51.85 1225 84.65 2 7 0 91 7 investigate this query
Shakib Al Hasan (BDESH) 2016-2019 22 22 0 908 121 41.27 1025 88.58 2 7 0 92 6 investigate this query
Tamim Iqbal (BDESH) 2016-2019 22 22 0 754 128 34.27 1045 72.15 1 5 2 74 8 investigate this query
LD Chandimal (SL) 2016-2019 31 28 1 870 102 32.22 1234 70.50 1 7 2 55 8 investigate this query
MD Gunathilaka (SL) 2016-2019 22 21 0 668 133 31.80 786 84.98 1 3 0 68 6 investigate this query
Mahmudullah (BDESH) 2016-2019 26 26 4 689 102* 31.31 839 82.12 1 3 1 54 12 investigate this query
WU Tharanga (SL) 2016-2019 32 31 2 885 119 30.51 982 90.12 2 4 3 105 14 investigate this query
N Dickwella (SL) 2017-2019 37 36 1 1057 95 30.20 1059 99.81 0 8 1 132 11 investigate this query
MDKJ Perera (SL) 2016-2019 29 28 2 784 102 30.15 855 91.69 1 4 0 90 7
Posted
45 minutes ago, Ankit_sharma03 said:

finishers become over time

yes there are - russell, pollard, pandya, yusuf, afridi are specialist power hitter.....not everyone has their skill set 

 

If u make guys like kohli, rohit bat at 6, 7 they wont be specialist anymore coz they are not meant for that role and they will struggle and they did also struggle.

Ull find rarely guys like dhoni, Rahul, raina or few others who cud bat all over order. Even yuvraj didnt find success when he was thrown to open and nor his number were great at 6,7 

All rounder grow over a period of time.....take a look at kallis or shakib numbers infact most all rounder. They grow with timw

Nope all round batsman cant be power hitter necessarily 

 

Kohli,smith,williamson,root, babar cant be termed power hitter

Some like rohit also who can cause mayhem needs his time time, whereas guys like i mentioned above can go from ball 1 ...2 completely diff skills. If it was possible for rohit he wont have failed at middle and here ur talking about lower middle order

 

In his era team cud manage with out a power hitter in lower order coz it was 200-250 era now its 300-350 era. He to wud have struggled like dhoni in last few years if he wont have developed power game

Dravid got us over the line with yuvraj or dhoni at other end on most days and the pak game ur ref check score card sachin n sehwag had done the most damage that it was one partnership away 

Kohli is called finisher....

rohit not coz he mostly he gets out around finishing 90% of job

Coz those India had none n these guys playing fast was like that , i think dhoni was the 1st picked for his power game

no u pick XI based on roles

U can pick gill ,samson n make them bat at 6 7 coz that has already failed and if u remember even kohli n rohit didnt find success 

All diff examples from each other 

Again poor understanding of the game.

 

Being blessed with power sure is an added dimension and additional skill set  just like being able to run fast. It’s good to have but if you are skills are polished you can more than make up  for lack of it.

 

Russell was out trying to slog Starc in the WI-Aus game after he just hit a 6. What was the use of all that power?

 

Yusuf has been a baggage for over 4 years now in the IPL. A failure at the international level.

 

Look at Gayle. He has power but he also has other dimensions to his game, so his power is just an added bonus.

 

Same goes for a lot of other popular big hitters.

 

Pandya is better than Dube but that is no benchmark. At 27 year old after 3 years we are still saying Pandya is a work in progress where as in 3 years time a lot of cricketers have almost become potential ATG’s.

 

Here is how it works, a no 6 slot is open,You pick the best 5 batsmen in your country. If one guy fails to adapt, you go to the next and next till you find a guy who can adapt. If Gill fails then Samson, else someone else someone. Within the 5-10 talents of someone can bowl or is a spectacular fielder put him ahead in that group but you don’t pick some random player because he hit a couple of 6s in some gully tournament or he can roll his arm over. Why is that so difficult to understand?

 

You misquoted me on Dube. I said someone like Rahane Will score runs in all situations compared to a lottery player like Dube. Sure Rahane May screw up the momentum, then you go to the next in line we’ll rounded  batsman to see if he adapts. Guys like Dube or Shankar are temporary fixes, not long tetm

solution.

Posted
24 minutes ago, zen said:

Yeah .... Buttler also has a phenomenal SR .... note that Matthews plays for SL where he may have to do a lot more firefighting relatively so it could impact his SR 

 

On the other hand, Dhoni plays for a team with one of the best top order so his SR is questionable (his avg is low too relative to the top performers)

Just to put it out there, from jan 2008-jan 2015 (7 yrs), MSD had an avg of 54 against the teams you mentioned. if one also adds SL, WI and bang, it comes up to 58.3. I miss those days....

Posted
4 minutes ago, Vijy said:

Just to put it out there, from jan 2008-jan 2015 (7 yrs), MSD had an avg of 54 against the teams you mentioned. if one also adds SL, WI and bang, it comes up to 58.3. I miss those days....

he was good in that period

Posted
28 minutes ago, Global.Baba said:

 

Russell was out trying to slog Starc in the WI-Aus game after he just hit a 6. What was the use of all that power?

power game is a risky game, when u take risk it will have double edge...surely u can be smart but then thats why he isnt dhoni or many arent but the day russell comes off no one is like him not even dhoni 

 

Ppl cant have both problem - if dhoni targets his bowlers then its a problem and if russell goes after player it is a problem 

28 minutes ago, Global.Baba said:

Yusuf has been a baggage for over 4 years now in the IPL. A failure at the international level.

thats his individual problem not the problem of type of players

Irfan, piyush, bhajji, rp, sreesanth all were specialist didnt they all become lazy after IPL Came ...so an individual thing

28 minutes ago, Global.Baba said:

Look at Gayle. He has power but he also has other dimensions to his game, so his power is just an added bonus.

and he took time to develop all dimensions ...also he has PP to start lower order players dont 

 

28 minutes ago, Global.Baba said:

Pandya is better than Dube but that is no benchmark. At 27 year old after 3 years we are still saying Pandya is a work in progress where as in 3 years time a lot of cricketers have almost become potential ATG’s.

Dhoni came in around same age but diff between dhoni n pandya is Fc cricket so u cant look at age 

 

in 3 years 1 year has gone injuries and most player are work in progress , coz he didnt play enough FC he was fast tracked. For someone who was fast tracked he has done very well. 

 

28 minutes ago, Global.Baba said:

Here is how it works, a no 6 slot is open,You pick the best 5 batsmen in your country. If one guy fails to adapt, you go to the next and next till you find a guy who can adapt. If Gill fails then Samson, else someone else someone. Within the 5-10 talents of someone can bowl or is a spectacular fielder put him ahead in that group but you don’t pick some random player because he hit a couple of 6s in some gully tournament or he can roll his arm over. Why is that so difficult to understand?

No thats not how it works

Gill or samson are not meant for that spot ....if u wanna try them for that tell them do that in domestic for some time or in IPL and they did in IPL and failed. Also u just cant roll arm over these days....life of part timers are not easy

 

Tell me this concept when these guys find success there. Historically both rohit, kohli didnt find success in lower middle order or in last few IPL neither did gill n samson in lower middle order.....so the plan has never worked in 1st place.

 

If rahul has come through well dont forget he did found success in middle in IPL for RCB so there was some backing.....and rahul has better power game then samson, gill n many 

28 minutes ago, Global.Baba said:

You misquoted me on Dube. I said someone like Rahane Will score runs in all situations compared to a lottery player like Dube. Sure Rahane May screw up the momentum, then you go to the next in line we’ll rounded  batsman to see if he adapts. Guys like Dube or Shankar are temporary fixes, not long tetm

solution.

Someone like rahane failed miserably in middle coz of his ability against spin . Surely he ll get run but the at rate he ll get will hurt team. 

Dube and shankar cant be in same bracket diff players...

 

dube a power player who was found out but that will happen to even specialist 

Shankar more of a solid player who just failed 2 games but did well in 3 other series he played 

Posted

My 2 naye paise:

 

In the early 2000s, our cupboard was bare.  In ODIs, with the exception of Ganguly and SRT, we had no established players (RD and VVSL were marginal ODI batsmen, Azhar turned out to be a punk, and Ajay Jadeja and Nayan Mongia were under the match-fixing microscope).  It opened the doors for brave young talent like Yuvraj and later MSD.  They were thrown into the deep end and thrived.  Yuvraj was freakkin' 18 and MSD was 23.  

 

Today, confident youngsters like Pant, Iyer, Gill, and now Jaiswal have to prove themselves for 3-5 years in Ranji, SMA, Hazare trophy, Duleep, IPL, India-A -- grind, grind, grind.  Even then, they are 2 failures away from being replaced with an established guy.  They are afraid to take things on and play with an eff-you attitude.  A finisher needs this freedom but there is no room for it.  It's like the team has saturated.  In today's environment, even SRT would not have debuted.  

 

 

 

 

Posted

I feel there are many reasons, many of which have been described by earlier posters: (a) evolution of ODI and T20 batting, which places emphasis on top-order, (b) mismanagement of available resources and lack of clarity from TM and selectors.

 

with that said, I also feel that the middle-order skill set can be learned to some degree, but it is also intrinsic to an extent. dravid, for instance, worked very hard and became an effective middle-order batter for a while. however, no matter how diligent he was, he could not have overtaken peak-level yuvi and Dhoni, because they could reach that extra gear with more ease.

 

if we wish to show proper long-term vision, it would be necessary to identify promising players and have them play in that specific slot as much as possible in domestics, "A" team matches and internationals. ideally, I feel the candidate should have: (a) reasonably sound technique to consolidate if early wickets fall, (b) excellent temperament to handle a wide range of pressure scenarios, (c) ability to rotate strike and play second fiddle to an established batter already scoring fast, and (d) take the initiative and score rapidly if the onus is on him.

 

looking at available candidates, I feel that iyer, rahul and gill have many of these traits but not all of them. When I first saw sarfaraz khan several years ago, I felt that he had all of them. but since then he regressed a lot, although he seems to be doing well again. one could potentially go with iyer at 4, rahul (wk) at 5 and sarfaraz at 6 (only if he does discover his old mojo and churns out the runs in domestics). 7 would be pandya and we would need to find a spin bowling AR at 8.

Posted
3 hours ago, Cricketphile said:

Another factor these days is because since there r 2 new balls, it has taken out dibbly dobbly bowlers. This means that our top order generally can’t turn their arm over which means that the players in the finishing spot (6,7, 8) also have to be ok bowlers capable of bowling atleast 6 overs if required. This is why players like shardul, kedar, Dube, jadeja, sundar, vijay Shankar r always on the radar and ppl like pant, Pandey, dk r so easily out of favor. It’s also why pandya is more vital to the balance than what he would have been in an era where sehwag, Ganguly, Sachin, kohli, yuvi etc can bowl a bit. Another reason of course is that there r way too many games these days which means it’s not easy for the top order to consistently be a 6th bowling option. This is why rohit or kohli don’t bowl these days

Its not only 2 new balls but add

1. Only 4 fielder oustide then 5 when this rule came dhoni stopped using yuvi bowling .

2. Bat sizes , small grounds

 

Guys like maxwell, jadhav, root all have variation so they did decent jobs as 6th bowler. Here our batsman dont evem bowl in nets and we want them to bowl in match. Their massacare cud be even worse.

 

This TM has no future vision or else they wud have told we need one batsman who can be a decent 6th bowling option so start looking at guys like abhishek sharma, rana, riyan parag and others. Instead we have extended jadhav career where we cud have tried even someone like sundar for few games. 

 

Whats worse we started making dube n shankar 5th bowling option who were at best 6th bowling option. 

Posted

The one's who looked like the next gen finishers over the last few years were Deepak Hooda and Sarfaraz Khan.Both have underwhelmed though Sarfaraz looks like getting back in the groove.

 

Now since we didnt have any natural finishers coming through one would have thought the TM would have given a long rope to Pant at 6 but such planning and thought is too much to expect from Shastrohli.

 

Posted
9 hours ago, Global.Baba said:

Again poor understanding of the game.

 

Being blessed with power sure is an added dimension and additional skill set  just like being able to run fast. It’s good to have but if you are skills are polished you can more than make up  for lack of it.

 

Russell was out trying to slog Starc in the WI-Aus game after he just hit a 6. What was the use of all that power?

 

Yusuf has been a baggage for over 4 years now in the IPL. A failure at the international level.

 

Look at Gayle. He has power but he also has other dimensions to his game, so his power is just an added bonus.

 

Same goes for a lot of other popular big hitters.

 

Pandya is better than Dube but that is no benchmark. At 27 year old after 3 years we are still saying Pandya is a work in progress where as in 3 years time a lot of cricketers have almost become potential ATG’s.

 

Here is how it works, a no 6 slot is open,You pick the best 5 batsmen in your country. If one guy fails to adapt, you go to the next and next till you find a guy who can adapt. If Gill fails then Samson, else someone else someone. Within the 5-10 talents of someone can bowl or is a spectacular fielder put him ahead in that group but you don’t pick some random player because he hit a couple of 6s in some gully tournament or he can roll his arm over. Why is that so difficult to understand?

 

You misquoted me on Dube. I said someone like Rahane Will score runs in all situations compared to a lottery player like Dube. Sure Rahane May screw up the momentum, then you go to the next in line we’ll rounded  batsman to see if he adapts. Guys like Dube or Shankar are temporary fixes, not long tetm

solution.

Pandya is 26 and not a work in progress especially in ODIs. He is an essential part of ODI side.

Posted (edited)
6 hours ago, Param Mastishk Pheeka said:

My 2 naye paise:

 

In the early 2000s, our cupboard was bare.  In ODIs, with the exception of Ganguly and SRT, we had no established players (RD and VVSL were marginal ODI batsmen, Azhar turned out to be a punk, and Ajay Jadeja and Nayan Mongia were under the match-fixing microscope).  It opened the doors for brave young talent like Yuvraj and later MSD.  They were thrown into the deep end and thrived.  Yuvraj was freakkin' 18 and MSD was 23.  

 

Today, confident youngsters like Pant, Iyer, Gill, and now Jaiswal have to prove themselves for 3-5 years in Ranji, SMA, Hazare trophy, Duleep, IPL, India-A -- grind, grind, grind.  Even then, they are 2 failures away from being replaced with an established guy.  They are afraid to take things on and play with an eff-you attitude.  A finisher needs this freedom but there is no room for it.  It's like the team has saturated.  In today's environment, even SRT would not have debuted.  

 

 

 

 

It took even yuvraj 5 years to make consistent impact, was averaging around 29 till 2005 batting in top 6. Pandya averages same with better SR but bats at 7.

Edited by rkt.india

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