Fcuk China

[ravishingravi]

 

[vvvslaxman]

3 hours ago, BacktoCricaddict said:

At that time, it was just one among several competing hypotheses.  Anyone who was convinced then and was convincing others that it was a lab-release or natural origin was fooling themselves and everyone else too.  It was a classic case of confirmation bias:

 

Blamers:  First, they decided that it was China.  Kept saying it was deliberate lab leak. With no evidence, except a well-deserved suspicion of China.   

Nature-lovers: "OMG, man interfered with nature.  Nature is fighting back."  No evidence, except it fit their man-vs-nature narrative.

Wait-and-seers:  All options are on the table.  Lab leak, including carelessness, is quite possible.  Let's see what the sequencing and other data look like before deciding.  

 

For 1 year, nature lovers thumped their chests!  Now, blamers are thumping their chests!  But the likely winners are the "wait-and-seers."  

 

Same thing is happening with variants.  We so badly want to believe that some nefarious organization or govt planted the variants (narrative-fitting), while molecular evolutionary biologists are screaming from message-board rooftops that natural sequence variation more than adequately explains it.  

charlie kirk is a bonafide idiot lol Especially his tweet about county votes comparison. He got trolled incessantly.  At this point Republicans are embracing Trumpism where conspiracy theories are the oxygen. If they say like 10000 conspiracy theories one or two might come close to being true. That's it.

[BacktoCricaddict]

2 hours ago, rkt.india said:

Can you tell how many such deadly contagious variants did we see of swine flu, bird flu, even MERS that created this kind of destruction? For this, we have already seen Brazil variant, SA variant, Uk variant. India double mutant, Indian triple mutant. But no US variant and no Chinese variant.

Can you tell how many such deadly contagious variants did we see of swine flu, bird flu, even MERS that created this kind of destruction?

This damn virus' spike protein allowed it to interact better with our cells and spread more.  More spread = More replication = More variants = More Variants of Concern.  

 

But no US variant and no Chinese variant.

I have not idea about Chinese variants.  So, no comments.

 

There were at least 6 homegrown variants of concern that emerged in the US and spread a lot.  No one really talked about it because the original Italian/Chinese strain itself got such a strong foothold in the US and caused a great deal of destruction here.  The original strain itself was the dominant one and others did not out-compete it as well.  

 

https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/the-coronavirus-variants-dont-seem-to-be-highly-variable-so-far/

 

 

The video below gives a good explanation of how variants develop.  It was made in Feb 2021 before the lab-release hypothesis had enough evidence, so they say "jumped from nature," you can ignore that:

 

 

 

[ravishingravi]

4 hours ago, BacktoCricaddict said:

At that time, it was just one among several competing hypotheses.  Anyone who was convinced then and was convincing others that it was a lab-release or natural origin was fooling themselves and everyone else too.  It was a classic case of confirmation bias:

 

Blamers:  First, they decided that it was China.  Kept saying it was deliberate lab leak. With no evidence, except a well-deserved suspicion of China.   

Nature-lovers: "OMG, man interfered with nature.  Nature is fighting back."  No evidence, except it fit their man-vs-nature narrative.

Wait-and-seers:  All options are on the table.  Lab leak, including carelessness, is quite possible.  Let's see what the sequencing and other data look like before deciding.  

 

For 1 year, nature lovers thumped their chests!  Now, blamers are thumping their chests!  But the likely winners are the "wait-and-seers."  

 

Same thing is happening with variants.  We so badly want to believe that some nefarious organization or govt planted the variants (narrative-fitting), while molecular evolutionary biologists are screaming from message-board rooftops that natural sequence variation more than adequately explains it.  

 

I am quite used to being labelled as not person of science by the so called left liberal. And its true. I am a person of commerce. 

 

Now, keeping all the noise aside, if I were to tell you that the only known lab presently doing any kind of "controversial" stuff on viruses are in Wuhan. And there has been a corona outbreak precisely from this city. But my first hunch is this has skipped from bat to pangolin through an intermediary animal that we do not know, but lab leak theory is unlikely, with all due respect, screw the scientist. 

 

A person of scientist has to place all the hypotheses on the table and start eliminating based on order of probability and evidence. If lancet journal can rule this off within couple of months of the outbreak, I think there is a good case for pulling up all research and medical work released by these scientists.

 

In fact, this was a classic case of other conspiracy theories such as JFK assassination. They are distracting with lot of stuff but not addressing the obvious. 

 

[BacktoCricaddict]

19 minutes ago, ravishingravi said:

 

I am quite used to being labelled as not person of science by the so called left liberal. And its true. I am a person of commerce. 

 

Now, keeping all the noise aside, if I were to tell you that the only known lab presently doing any kind of "controversial" stuff on viruses are in Wuhan. And there has been a corona outbreak precisely from this city. But my first hunch is this has skipped from bat to pangolin through an intermediary animal that we do not know, but lab leak theory is unlikely, with all due respect, screw the scientist. 

 

A person of scientist has to place all the hypotheses on the table and start eliminating based on order of probability and evidence. If lancet journal can rule this off within couple of months of the outbreak, I think there is a good case for pulling up all research and medical work released by these scientists.

 

In fact, this was a classic case of other conspiracy theories such as JFK assassination. They are distracting with lot of stuff but not addressing the obvious. 

 

To begin with, the bat-pangolin hypothesis was just as plausible as the lab-leak hypothesis.  The environmentalists and vegans jumped on it and milked it for all its worth, and eNGOs made a killing.  It was an easier hypothesis to test, because virus sequences were available from various species.  Some scientists found evidence consistent with that hypothesis and published. I had arguments with these environmentalists who were claiming victory and got tired of telling them - "these data are not convincingly showing natural origins.  We need to see more."

 

What gets me is that scientists who found initial evidence supporting natural origins were ridiculed by ignorant fools who knew jack-shyte about what the data were saying but had already decided, based on conjecture, that it was China killing the world.  Now, they are acting all victorious - "see I told you."  Yeah, you told me, but you had zero credible evidence.  You just started with a conclusion.

 

Even a broken clock is right twice a day.  

 

As with everything else, all you got to do is wait for the damn data.  But people hate nuance.  People hate uncertainty.  People hate to be wrong.  People hate to change their minds.  

Edited May 24, 2021 by BacktoCricaddict

[mishra]

2 hours ago, ravishingravi said:

 

So just two weeks before virus breaks out in Wuhan, this peter Dasac from Eco Health Alliance funding Wuhan lab claim that they have got several types of Covid in lab. And once virus breaks out in Wuhan, the same guy publishes and spearheads the theory that this virus is from bats. 
@BacktoCricaddict watch after 29 mins above video

[BacktoCricaddict]

3 minutes ago, mishra said:

So just two weeks before virus breaks out in Wuhan, this peter Dasac from Eco Health Alliance funding Wuhan lab claim that they have got several types of Covid in lab. And once virus breaks out in Wuhan, the same guy publishes and spearheads the theory that this virus is from bats. 
@BacktoCricaddict watch after 29 mins above video

Yes, I completely agree that the lab leak hypothesis is the most plausible.  Enough evidence has accumulated since February.  

 

But only now we know.  Prior to all this coming out, anyone who claimed they knew for a fact that China released it from a lab were talking out of their backside and it stunk.

 

Them:  Mujhe pehle hi pataa thaa.

Me:  GhanTaa pataa thaa.

Edited May 24, 2021 by BacktoCricaddict

[mishra]

9 minutes ago, BacktoCricaddict said:

Yes, I completely agree that the lab leak hypothesis is the most plausible.  Enough evidence has accumulated since February.  

 

But only now we know.  Prior to all this coming out, anyone who claimed they knew for a fact that China released it from a lab were talking out of their backside and it stunk.

 

Them:  Mujhe pehle hi pataa thaa.

Me:  GhanTaa pataa thaa.

Hunch answer of all plausible options may be right but will definitely not be covering scientific bases, and if so many people are choosing same option on basis of hunch. You got to give a thought, why most people are having same hunch.

[gattaca]

1 hour ago, BacktoCricaddict said:

Yes, I completely agree that the lab leak hypothesis is the most plausible.  Enough evidence has accumulated since February.  

 

But only now we know.  Prior to all this coming out, anyone who claimed they knew for a fact that China released it from a lab were talking out of their backside and it stunk.

 

Them:  Mujhe pehle hi pataa thaa.

Me:  GhanTaa pataa thaa.

 

 

But scientific community was not even ready to acknowledge the fact it could be a leak. Even WHO and scientific community declared it is caused naturally. Even people like Fauci are changing tunes saying it should be investigated. Isn't scientific community main motto is to not have preconceived notions to make judgement and investigate all possibilities ? 

[BacktoCricaddict]

58 minutes ago, gattaca said:

 

 

But scientific community was not even ready to acknowledge the fact it could be a leak. Even WHO and scientific community declared it is caused naturally. Even people like Fauci are changing tunes saying it should be investigated. Isn't scientific community main motto is to not have preconceived notions to make judgement and investigate all possibilities ? 

You are partially correct.  Science leaders failed because the early evidence was pointing to bats (maybe because they were flocking to that evidence).  Scientists on the ground level often have their hands tied (or if Chinese, their heads cut off) and cannot investigate everything or even talk about it without political approval.  A stellar scientist group wrote an open letter asking for an investigation:  https://science.sciencemag.org/content/372/6543/694.1

 

There's another aspect of this whole thing I've been wanting to bring up but have not found the right thread.  Maybe this as good as any.  @ravishingravi may also be interested.

 

Often, statements like "NIH funded Wuhan virology lab" have to be taken with a grain of salt.  Let me give you an example:

 

Let's say I write a research proposal to do some genetic research on ragi yield, and the US Dept of Agriculture grants $500,000 for the project.  The way it will be done is that I would contact someone at Univ of Ag Sciences in Dharwad and ask if I could collaborate with them.  They have the know-how, access to farms and farmers, lab space, chemical inventory, office space etc.  So, instead of paying me directly, USDA will deposit $500,000 with UAS Dharwad, who will hire me as a visiting scientist during my stay.  They will pay my salary and any research expenses from that grant.  It is just logistically prudent.   Now if some unscrupulous fellow at UAS Dharwad siphons off $50,000 to deliberately develop something destructive, should I or US Dept of Ag get the blame for that destruction?   

 

So, the analogy I am seeing is:  NIH (headed by Fauci) paid EcoHealth for virus research; EcoHealth used part of that for a Wuhan project; Wuhan lab used that money to fund gain-of-function research.  Someone was careless.  Virus leaked.  Not deliberate planting by any person or group to destroy the world.  As a research insider who has written and received US federal grants, I understand the process and how things can be misconstrued by public and media, setting off conspiracy twitter storms.   

 

So, yes, there were fcuk ups, cover ups of the fcuk ups, but intent to destroy?  Not so sure.  

Edited May 24, 2021 by BacktoCricaddict

[ravishingravi]

 

[ravishingravi]

Yup this was a screw up. 

[Jimmy Cliff]

 

 

 

 

[coffee_rules]

SM media companies should not be allowed to censor content on their own. A year ago, FB banned any content that brought the Wuhan Lab theory tin order to bring Trump down. This year, it is the flavor of the week, Wuhan ki saazish!

[vvvslaxman]

1 hour ago, coffee_rules said:

SM media companies should not be allowed to censor content on their own. A year ago, FB banned any content that brought the Wuhan Lab theory tin order to bring Trump down. This year, it is the flavor of the week, Wuhan ki saazish!

 

They said Vrus was created in the lab lol They were not really talking about "lab leak". It was just one of those gazillion conspiracy theories Trump was peddling.  He uses conspiracy theories perpetuated by far right radio networks. Wasn't he the president? What the heck he was doing then? Till date there is no conclusive evidence of one way or the other. Only his low IQ followers were eating his conspiracy theories. Because they were already believing such conspiracy theories.  

 

 

 

[vvvslaxman]

Lab leak or natural spreading China still should be held accountable. A whistle blower had to tell the world people are getting sick mysteriously due to a virus.  They delayed it. USA is also culpable of not using the credible intelligence they received in 2019.

[rkt.india]

1 hour ago, vvvslaxman said:

Lab leak or natural spreading China still should be held accountable. A whistle blower had to tell the world people are getting sick mysteriously due to a virus.  They delayed it. USA is also culpable of not using the credible intelligence they received in 2019.

It's not a natural virus so natural spreading is ruled out. There is no evidence of virus evolution from bats to animal and then to human. It can't directly come from bats to human. When this pandemic broke, suddenly there were many videos came out showing wet markets in China and virus coming from there which was just a hogwash by Chinese govt for coverup.

[BacktoCricaddict]

4 minutes ago, rkt.india said:

It's not a natural virus so natural spreading is ruled out.

Everything that has happened since the virus started spreading can be explained (as I have done many times on this board) by principles of natural evolution.  The original leak was probably from a lab, but variant development is exactly how nature would do it.  

[mishra]

1 hour ago, vvvslaxman said:

Lab leak or natural spreading China still should be held accountable. A whistle blower had to tell the world people are getting sick mysteriously due to a virus.  They delayed it. USA is also culpable of not using the credible intelligence they received in 2019.

When this virus first came out, someone told me a story from some CIA agents as source, which involved a wuhan lab scientist, Spy agent, Chinese security agency and shootout in Wet market and spill of virus. He also mentioned Xi Xinping going underground, HongKong protest and field Hospitals as furnace(recall videos from China showing infected alive man being put in body bag for taken into furnace. However, everything sounded like something straight from some intensive Hollywood flick.  China was reporting death count nearing 4 thousand and corona has just started reaching US and EU shores. As per him that one field hospital in city had put over 50,000 bodies in furnace. Only front part looked like hospital for unsuspecting people , tbose field hospital were actually to burn the dead. 
 

later someone claimed disappearing China mobile simcard count in millions.

 

At the time, I did not trust him simply because of number of reported death.  But now, I kind of suspect that what he mentioned was most likely correct as 50000 is definitely possible if people don’t know what the prevention, treatment, cure could be.

 

You can imagine, now I am so scared to talk to him and discuss covid origin topic with him and since Feb or March 2020 I have been just wishing Happy Holi , Happy Diwali over txt messg.

[ravishingravi]

Well well well