Darren Sammy calls out the use of a "degrading" name for him during his time at Sunrisers Hyderabad.

[Gollum]

What if WIndians start calling Indians curry munchers, even that might be factually correct but acceptable, no way. WI players in the past have faced racism in India. Symonds who is of WI background had to endure some of the most despicable behavior ever witnessed in sports arena...really no defending our behavior, don't blame the victim and don't behave like Pakistanis blaming it on West. If an Ishant can post kaalu on IG without public backlash, things would have been 10x worse in real life for Sammy.

Edited June 9, 2020 by Gollum

[MechEng]

7 minutes ago, Cricketics said:

I think this is the biggest culture difference which will be always hard to explain to someone from overseas that when an Indian calls someone kaala, chota, mota, gittha, chinki, they don’t literally mean it and it shouldn’t be considered as racist as its part of our lingo.

 

But I also think that we have to change with time that what was fine in the late 90s is not isn’t appropriate in a more globalized world with social media today and this is where we might have to change ourselves too and think how rest of the world thinks of us when we say such things. 

Globalized nahi, softies. Ekdum ras malai jaise. 

[Gollum]

11 minutes ago, Manny_Pacquiao said:

People are also obsessed with height, weight, size of their nose, size of their penis, hair, and everything else. There are superficial traits.

 

I didn't like being called 'lambu' or 'chashmish' (i used to wear glasses) when i was younger. Yeah, its an insult, but there's no malice intended. And in the indian context, it doesn't refer to anything BUT appearance. Because india doesn't politicize skin color, height, eye-sight or any other physical trait.

 

What indians decide is offensive, is upto indians. It's not for some choot foreigner or 'brown american' to tell indians what to find offensive and what not to.

In India there is no discrimination because of height, weight, nose size, being chashmish etc. but kaalu, chinki are different. People are discriminated because of that, even today Africans in Delhi/Goa are beaten up by mobs and called those derogatory terms, NE people (didn't you make a thread?) are spat at, cursed, called chinki etc. Many of our women face insults, abuse, torture because of their skin colour. 

 

Nothing to do with West here, all of this is in Indian context. That this country is still obsessed with fairness creams tells me all I want to know about our attitude towards skin colour. If Indians are so perfect why is our popular culture dominated by fair skinned people when majority of our citizens have darker shade. Why can't dusky actors/actresses land roles with the same ease? I can cite similar examples about NE citizens but that ain't the topic here. But you get the idea, we do discriminate openly against fellow Indians cos of appearance and then get defensive when it is pointed out. 

[Gollum]

Maybe Indian cricket has a deeper problem, not so long ago

 

[MechEng]

5 minutes ago, Gollum said:

Maybe Indian cricket has a deeper problem, not so long ago

 

You can get away with a sob post in social media and gain temporary sympathy but the real world has no time for fragile people. 

[Gollum]

1 minute ago, MechEng said:

You can get away with a sob post in social media and gain temporary sympathy but the real world has no time for fragile people. 

Way to miss the point. Anyway I think I have said what I wanted to say, nothing more to add. 

[Gollum]

34 minutes ago, coffee_rules said:

Look at our films, fair is beautiful, dark is ugly. Don’t tell calling a person Blacky is out of respect and love.

 

Just to add skin colour is also linked to caste in many places. 

[maniac]

Calling someone Kaalu,Chotu,takle,motu,lambu at times are also used endearingly. I mean Ishant has probably been called lambu most of his career by his team mates at all levels.
 

I have seen Chahal being called various names because of his physique as well or Raju back in the day.
 

Was Sammy discriminated and payed lesser than his worth or was he discriminated at the lunch table. WTF is he blabbering about?

 

by the way just because it is normal to us doesn’t mean it is correct though and I hate addressing some one with a nick name based on disability or color or looks. However the most popular TV show in India is a show were men dress up as women and the Co-host and the audience laugh at the unfunniest of jokes with those weird background effects. 90% or more of those jokes are based on someone’s appearance and a lot of misogyny.

 

I kind of think @Nikola is on to something here

[MechEng]

7 minutes ago, Gollum said:

Way to miss the point. Anyway I think I have said what I wanted to say, nothing more to add. 

Haan ji next kya? cricket in air conditioned stadiums because the discomfort too much sweating causes?

[Nikola]

My point was about sammy saying this after becoming pakistani citizen. Don't agree with what ishant has said but in our society we use 'kallu' very easily without even thinking about race and all (Pretty sad for those who has to face it). Btw can anyone explain me calling our god kali mata or lord shiva (neelkanth) considered wrong too?

[Clarke]

"Black" Panther is racist 

[Nikola]

We need different thread on race issue in our country.

Edited June 9, 2020 by Nikola

[Cricketics]

1 hour ago, Manny_Pacquiao said:

Hindus find eating animals to be offensive. Will the 'rest of the world' think about the sentiments of hindus and stop killing cows and chickens for food?

 

If the west doesn't accept india's standards, indians shouldn't give a f**** about what the west thinks. Your country, your rules.

 

(globalization is dead, by the way).

I agree what you say but also feel people in India - south and north have different cultures and our lingo in North or West of India doesn’t connect well with people from places like Kerala and Chennai. If you notice, mainly it is Chennai and Kerala folks which find this most offensive. I have also seen similar trend here where my my colleagues from Kerala or Chennai are the ones who have been using #BlackLivesMatter more than anyone else among NRI acquaintances. 
 

 

[Cricketics]

I feel Sammy is still a decent cool dude, just that a lot of these people do become sensitive about their pride when these issues are raised which we also should understand. We Indians don’t because most of us having thick skin and hence we are the most tolerant nation.
 

BlackLivesMatter movement has gotten all of them out from rich rappers to every Black celebrity around the globe and hence its this heat of all this is what is coming out from Sammy as these guys are just thinking too mich right now. Once explained to him, he will of course understand. Don’t think Sammy has mindset of some of those looters pretending to be protesters who can be seen on streets of DMV, Chicago and New York ransacking all the stores. Some of these guys like Sammy are decent ones with whom we just need to maintain some sort of dialogue and need to give them Indian 101 course about our culture and lingo. 

[someone]

6 minutes ago, Cricketics said:

I feel Sammy is still a decent cool dude, just that a lot of these people do become sensitive about their pride when these issues are raised which we also should understand. We Indians don’t because most of us have thick skin wnd hence we are they most tolerant nation.
 

BlackLivesMatter movement has gotten all of them out from rich rappers to every Black celebrity around the globe and hence its this heat of all this is what is coming out from Sammy as these guys are just thinking too mich right now. Once explained to him, he will of course understand. Don’t think Sammy has mindset of some of those looters pretending to be protesters who can be seen on streets of DMV, Chicago and New York ransacking all the stores. Some of these guys are decent ones with whom we just need to maintain some sort of dialogue and need to give them Indian 101 course about our culture and lingo. 

His old SRH teammates are probably nice people, yet he has accused them of racism. That is a serious thing, and has consequences. I am sure, some friendships would be lost by this episode.

 

Sammy could have called the word as a bad joke, but now he made it about his color and tagged racism. Which itself is fragile charge, given strong black man was acceptable to him.

[BacktoCricaddict]

11 minutes ago, Cricketics said:

hence we are the most tolerant nation.

Are you sure about that?  Caste-based intolerance, skin-colour-based social discrimination and regional intolerance are all still prevalent.  

 

Often, it is not tolerance but a non-confrontational,"why lafda?" attitude that keeps us from saying anything even if we are offended.  In my Brahmin family, SCs were referred to derisively as "Chootramaar." 

 

I was myself derisively called "Bomman" for Brahmin.  I didn't like it, but did not speak up.  Telugus were Gultis or Goltis, Tamils were Kongatis, Muslims were Turkas or Saabis, etc.  We stereotyped like crazy - Brahmins are stingy, Gujjus are greedy, Mallus are loud, North Indians are rude etc. etc.  At that age it is harmless fun, but can foster an us-vs-them mentality which can boil over during adulthood.  

[Cricketics]

3 minutes ago, BacktoCricaddict said:

Are you sure about that?  Caste-based intolerance, skin-colour-based social discrimination and regional intolerance are all still prevalent.  

 

Often, it is not tolerance but a non-confrontational,"why lafda?" attitude that keeps us from saying anything even if we are offended.  In my Brahmin family, SCs were referred to derisively as "Chootramaar." 

 

I was myself derisively called "Bomman" for Brahmin.  I didn't like it, but did not speak up.  Telugus were Gultis or Goltis, Tamils were Kongatis, Muslims were Turkas or Saabis, etc.  We stereotyped like crazy - Brahmins are stingy, Gujjus are greedy, Mallus are loud, North Indians are rude etc. etc.  At that age it is harmless fun, but can foster an us-vs-them mentality which can boil over during adulthood.  

 India is the most tolerant, if we aren't then I don't know who is. Now don't bring that we don't all gay rights and stuff like that beause that hasn't been part of our culture from very start. We might end up accepting that too once more people in India start coming out being gay. Just see the amount of fan following someone like Karan Johar has. Its not like he has only lgbt supporters. People in India still follow him. 

 

I think better way to put it is that we are better listeners than rest of the world and hence can assimilate and can let anyone assimilate into our culture easily. We have thick skins with emotions for all the communities. Khans have rules the bollywood, Abdul Kalam is still more respect than anyone, Dr. Manmohan Singh - even though he played 2nd fidel to the Gandhi Family as a PM is still well respect among Indians and was there for double term. Its not a country of millions, its made of billions. Of course many will be different because we have many cultures, languages and ofcoure population, but if we take all of into account, we perhaps make lives easy for anyone. If we had more money in the country and better pays, bet India would have been more populated today because it would provided the ideal mix - Great paying nation with the best culture.  No country like India, having lived in many places. 

[Cricketics]

18 minutes ago, someone said:

His old SRH teammates are probably nice people, yet he has accused them of racism. That is a serious thing, and has consequences. I am sure, some friendships would be lost by this episode.

 

Sammy could have called the word as a bad joke, but now he made it about his color and tagged racism. Which itself is fragile charge, given strong black man was acceptable to him.

Like i said, i think thngs will come out soon in few says where you will see him apologizing or thanking Ishant or co about having a good conversation etc and understanding each other. Currently the mood is such among these people that they are reading a lot of things. from too many tabloids to reading too much into old pictures or comments. Once the dust settles, it will also open those clogged minds which have emerged recently. 

[someone]

16 minutes ago, BacktoCricaddict said:

Are you sure about that?  Caste-based intolerance, skin-colour-based social discrimination and regional intolerance are all still prevalent.  

 

Often, it is not tolerance but a non-confrontational,"why lafda?" attitude that keeps us from saying anything even if we are offended.  In my Brahmin family, SCs were referred to derisively as "Chootramaar." 

 

I was myself derisively called "Bomman" for Brahmin.  I didn't like it, but did not speak up.  Telugus were Gultis or Goltis, Tamils were Kongatis, Muslims were Turkas or Saabis, etc.  We stereotyped like crazy - Brahmins are stingy, Gujjus are greedy, Mallus are loud, North Indians are rude etc. etc.  At that age it is harmless fun, but can foster an us-vs-them mentality which can boil over during adulthood.  

That's have exploitation, but not discrimination. There is a big difference. And how you judge tolerance is also measured by how far history is measured. There are many societies who preach freedom today, yet they were build through genocides, slavery and supremacy. 

 

In a complete history outlook, India is relatively very tolerant nation, and welcome to all cultures. We are the only country with such a unique mix of cultures.

[BacktoCricaddict]

8 minutes ago, Cricketics said:

 India is the most tolerant, if we aren't then I don't know who is. Now don't bring that we don't all gay rights and stuff like that beause that hasn't been part of our culture from very start. We might end up accepting that too once more people in India start coming out being gay. Just see the amount of fan following someone like Karan Johar has. Its not like he has only lgbt supporters. People in India still follow him. 

 

I think better way to put it is that we are better listeners than rest of the world and hence can assimilate and can let anyone assimilate into our culture easily. We have thick skins with emotions for all the communities. Khans have rules the bollywood, Abdul Kalam is still more respect than anyone, Dr. Manmohan Singh - even though he played 2nd fidel to the Gandhi Family as a PM is still well respect among Indians and was there for double term. Its not a country of millions, its made of billions. Of course many will be different because we have many cultures, languages and ofcoure population, but if we take all of into account, we perhaps make lives easy for anyone. If we had more money in the country and better pays, bet India would have been more populated today because it would provided the ideal mix - Great paying nation with the best culture.  No country like India, having lived in many places. 

I am talking about tolerance at a personal level, not tolerance of film stars or politicians.  If we were really that tolerant, would we have caste wars?  Honor killings?  Intolerance of North-Easterners because they look Chinese?  Intolerance of untouchables?  Intolerance of Brahmins by Gowdas and vice versa?   Intolerance of intercaste marriages - heck an Iyer marrying an Iyengar is a huge scandal.  A Gowda marrying a Lingayat is borderline criminal.  A Brahmin marrying a Shudra can be a death sentence.  If that is not intolerance, what is?  

 

BTW, I even detest Sardar jokes and don't think we should tolerate them.