coffee_rules Posted December 13, 2020 Share Posted December 13, 2020 Yes, this is for farmers! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khota Posted December 13, 2020 Share Posted December 13, 2020 1 hour ago, coffee_rules said: Yes, this is for farmers! That is wrong but that is not whatthe protest is about. BJP wants to turn it into a communal issue whereas this is an economic one. Ignore the noise and stick to the main points. speedheat and Under_Score 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coffee_rules Posted December 13, 2020 Share Posted December 13, 2020 2 hours ago, Khota said: That is wrong but that is not whatthe protest is about. BJP wants to turn it into a communal issue whereas this is an economic one. Ignore the noise and stick to the main points. What are the economic main points? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khota Posted December 13, 2020 Share Posted December 13, 2020 1 hour ago, coffee_rules said: What are the economic main points? Farmers barely eke out a living and there is some gaurantee with minimum support prices that they need to keep the vutures off them. Under_Score 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
speedheat Posted December 13, 2020 Author Share Posted December 13, 2020 Whether you guys agree or not but it is feared that, since big farmers will eventually move out of mandis because of lucrative offers from private players, state government might eventually discontinue maintaining mandis. So farmers concerns are genuine, Godi media and andhbhakt on sm should stop defaming farmers. Khota and Under_Score 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coffee_rules Posted December 13, 2020 Share Posted December 13, 2020 27 minutes ago, Khota said: Farmers barely eke out a living and there is some gaurantee with minimum support prices that they need to keep the vutures off them. Do you know how MSP works? Prices are set by a admin committee set by state or taluk and procurement is done through middleman. Most of what farmers get, will be cut through intermediaries, much like the agents outside RTO. Only 6% of farmers get adv of MSP. Rest of the country for most other crops are sold through private parties (unregulated) and cooperatives (like Amul). MSP and APMCs are Soviet era policies that have served the purpose in times of need , should now go away. Only rich farmers in P-H are using it to grow sub quality rice and wheat and making money off of the state. Hence the protest is funded rich farmers, politicians and middlemen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
someone Posted December 13, 2020 Share Posted December 13, 2020 (edited) 11 hours ago, Under_Score said: If the India farmer's issues & concerns were not serious & genuine, No farmer from Haryana, UP & MP would've joined the protesting Punjab farmers. Yes, way of farming needs to change for betterment & progress, but not without talking to farmers before making the laws that mostly favor corporate tycoons. That's false analysis. Do you realize MSP is for around 20 something crops? It's not for every item. And there was no guarantee ever earlier, yet this is the first government which has ever given a written one. Now, some farmers particular using this protests, and demand MSP to every vegetables, fruits. That is a no-go thing, as economics will hurt, and inflation will sky rocket. Thus, there are 2 major demands, of different farmers, MSP and withdraw 3 farm bills and both are independent of each other. Edited December 13, 2020 by someone coffee_rules 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
someone Posted December 13, 2020 Share Posted December 13, 2020 13 hours ago, Khota said: Farmers are very poor and if there are few subsidies given than what is the big deal? Farmers are poor because the existing system is bad, and thus government brought changes to system. The changes are something which all parties and farmers have all spoken in favor of in the past. And yet, some farmers for their own ulterior motives want to return back to the older system. Just make a comparison between existing system and new system. And the net benefits for both farmers, and consumers are with this new system. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coffee_rules Posted December 13, 2020 Share Posted December 13, 2020 6 minutes ago, someone said: That's false analysis. Do you realize MSP is for around 20 something crops? It's not for every item. And there was no guarantee ever earlier, yet this is the first government which has ever given a written one. Now, some farmers particular using this protests, and demand MSP to every vegetables, fruits. That is a no-go thing, as economics will hurt, and inflation will sky rocket. Thus, there are 2 major demands, of different farmers, MSP and withdraw 3 farm bills and both are independent of each other. Not only that, the MSP of some crops is half of the same in Haryana. Now, P farmers were not allowed to sell the same crop in H (naturally fair), why couldn’t Amrinder government fix MSP accordingly. It is not possible to guarantee MSP into law. It should be based on market value of crop and land costs locally to the farmers. Because, the BJP relented to give it in writing that MSP will go not go away, the protesters think they can demand more they can bite. How much can they depend on Maibaap sarkaar! someone 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khota Posted December 13, 2020 Share Posted December 13, 2020 1 hour ago, someone said: Farmers are poor because the existing system is bad, and thus government brought changes to system. The changes are something which all parties and farmers have all spoken in favor of in the past. And yet, some farmers for their own ulterior motives want to return back to the older system. Just make a comparison between existing system and new system. And the net benefits for both farmers, and consumers are with this new system. Obviously if they felt it benefitted them they would not protest. Under_Score and speedheat 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khota Posted December 13, 2020 Share Posted December 13, 2020 1 hour ago, someone said: Farmers are poor because the existing system is bad, and thus government brought changes to system. The changes are something which all parties and farmers have all spoken in favor of in the past. And yet, some farmers for their own ulterior motives want to return back to the older system. Just make a comparison between existing system and new system. And the net benefits for both farmers, and consumers are with this new system. 1 hour ago, coffee_rules said: Not only that, the MSP of some crops is half of the same in Haryana. Now, P farmers were not allowed to sell the same crop in H (naturally fair), why couldn’t Amrinder government fix MSP accordingly. It is not possible to guarantee MSP into law. It should be based on market value of crop and land costs locally to the farmers. Because, the BJP relented to give it in writing that MSP will go not go away, the protesters think they can demand more they can bite. How much can they depend on Maibaap sarkaar! Farming no where in the world follows supply and demand curves that you speak of. All over the world farming is regulated to benefit nations. Now if the farmer makes half way decent wages then I see nothing wrong with it. Atleast Indian farmer has made this country net exporter of food. Before streamling farming there are multitudes of things govt. can undertake and fix but tthey did this for political reasons. Not one PSU or Air India or OFB benefits the nation but there are no checks to that. Why were Adnani groups making storage facilities all over Haryana without this bill even being passed. This is political and will benefit the few only. Under_Score 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khota Posted December 13, 2020 Share Posted December 13, 2020 2 hours ago, Under_Score said: True, also when you talk about a reform in agriculture, in a agrarian economy, not taking farmers into confidence is the worst sin any govt would commit. Making decisions without input from farmers is a sin. They want to hurt farmers and they have achieved that. Under_Score 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jf1gp_1 Posted December 14, 2020 Share Posted December 14, 2020 6 hours ago, Khota said: Making decisions without input from farmers is a sin. They want to hurt farmers and they have achieved that. Lets call it what it is, this impacts large punjab farmers who alternately grow sh-!t grade paddy and wheat which they sell to govt hence the drama. Give me one point which hurts small farmers. raki05 and coffee_rules 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jf1gp_1 Posted December 14, 2020 Share Posted December 14, 2020 12 hours ago, coffee_rules said: Do you know how MSP works? Prices are set by a admin committee set by state or taluk and procurement is done through middleman. Most of what farmers get, will be cut through intermediaries, much like the agents outside RTO. Only 6% of farmers get adv of MSP. Rest of the country for most other crops are sold through private parties (unregulated) and cooperatives (like Amul). MSP and APMCs are Soviet era policies that have served the purpose in times of need , should now go away. Only rich farmers in P-H are using it to grow sub quality rice and wheat and making money off of the state. Hence the protest is funded rich farmers, politicians and middlemen Thank you for this. Till this protest started even i wasnt aware that MSP wasnt in current law as well. I think more people need to understand this new law and maybe then they will realize its actually good for smaller farmer. coffee_rules 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stan AF Posted December 14, 2020 Share Posted December 14, 2020 Good to see you back @Under_Score Under_Score 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chewy Posted December 14, 2020 Share Posted December 14, 2020 I thought the farmers' union BKU and current Punjab CM himself wanted to get rid of these mandis and sell directly to private players, so why the U-turn? And why no protests from other states? raki05 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khota Posted December 14, 2020 Share Posted December 14, 2020 6 hours ago, jf1gp_1 said: Lets call it what it is, this impacts large punjab farmers who alternately grow sh-!t grade paddy and wheat which they sell to govt hence the drama. Give me one point which hurts small farmers. If your income gets depressed it is hurting them. 3 hours ago, sarchasm said: I think someone called it a khalistan appeasement tax, a very accurate description. Divide and conquer, that is what BJP is trying to do. Under_Score 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mishra Posted December 14, 2020 Share Posted December 14, 2020 As I said, this stir is over. Just a matter of time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clarke Posted December 14, 2020 Share Posted December 14, 2020 "should have talked to stakeholders before passing law" This is fantastic. Govt should come and ask for my approval before passing laws. I just think it sounds a bit different from the literal meaning of the word "Republic", no pun intended. But yeah, "repeal all three laws" is as fair as "kagaz nahi dikhaenge". raki05, Laaloo and coffee_rules 1 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coffee_rules Posted December 14, 2020 Share Posted December 14, 2020 14 hours ago, Khota said: Making decisions without input from farmers is a sin. They want to hurt farmers and they have achieved that. It was added in all party manifestos because of widespread popularity of reforms, as in every election they offer sops to farmers. It was not as if farmers were not consulted. Just because these reforms will one day stop the handouts from APMC, the rich fat zamindars are pushing farmers on the road to block highways. The same parties which supported such reforms where RaGa told that they will build airports everywhere and allow farmers come to airports and sell their maal. They are now supporting farmers just because BJP relented on amendments, they now want all reforms to be repealed. BJzp has won recents polls, zP on the popularity of reforms. There are many farmer unions coming in support of the reforms https://www.thehindu.com/news/national/farmers-in-support-of-new-laws-meet-agri-minister-threaten-to-protest-if-repealed/article33315542.ece Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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