ravishingravi Posted February 1, 2021 Share Posted February 1, 2021 You know we are in trouble when FM takes pride in the fact that msp has increased 5 times compared 2013 during budget announcement. This is what socialist structures do. Thwarts innovation. Increases resistance to change. Once you put people on steroid / drugs, it is difficult to pull back. They will always want more with law of diminishing returns at work. FischerTal 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Singh bling Posted February 1, 2021 Share Posted February 1, 2021 2 hours ago, ravishingravi said: You know we are in trouble when FM takes pride in the fact that msp has increased 5 times compared 2013 during budget announcement. This is what socialist structures do. Thwarts innovation. Increases resistance to change. Once you put people on steroid / drugs, it is difficult to pull back. They will always want more with law of diminishing returns at work. In a country of 1.4 billion you cannot have capitalism for sector that employ 40-50% of workforce. Forget Indian government even world cannot employ such large workforce. Khota and Under_Score 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Singh bling Posted February 1, 2021 Share Posted February 1, 2021 On 30/01/2021 at 11:17 PM, coffee_rules said: Had to look up anakh! Why is it a religious pride and honor issue? Aren’t there Hindu farmers in Punjryana? Amazing that Indira Priyadarshini family has turned Sikhs against BJP. I don’t think it is anti-BJP, it is anti-Hindu sentiment that raged in Pre-1980s Sikh militancy that is still being stoked. Anti BJP , RSS do not mean anti hindu. Had sikhs been so anti hindu they would had been voting to Hardliners Akali Dals instead of congress or NDA . As I said earlier it's all have to do with internal politics of Punjab where Right wing hindu's and Sikhs are fighting with each other from decades coffee_rules 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khota Posted February 1, 2021 Share Posted February 1, 2021 2 hours ago, Singh bling said: Anti BJP , RSS do not mean anti hindu. Had sikhs been so anti hindu they would had been voting to Hardliners Akali Dals instead of congress or NDA . As I said earlier it's all have to do with internal politics of Punjab where Right wing hindu's and Sikhs are fighting with each other from decades Some posters have it black and white here. They equate anti BJP as anti hindu. They have no clue how close sikhs and hindus are in the villages in Punjab. All they want is to disturb peace in Punjab. Real McCoy 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khota Posted February 1, 2021 Share Posted February 1, 2021 5 hours ago, ravishingravi said: You know we are in trouble when FM takes pride in the fact that msp has increased 5 times compared 2013 during budget announcement. This is what socialist structures do. Thwarts innovation. Increases resistance to change. Once you put people on steroid / drugs, it is difficult to pull back. They will always want more with law of diminishing returns at work. when I was young and immature I used to read Ayn rand a lot. Now I have realized it makes no sense. If you understand this complicated world giving MSP to farmers is like gauranteeing minimum wage. Is it too much if a poor farmer makes 5000 rupees pm if he toils for 60 hours in the fields? Look at PSU employees who do jack shyt and get gauranteed income for rest of their lives. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khota Posted February 1, 2021 Share Posted February 1, 2021 4 hours ago, Under_Score said: Thanks to the fellow ICF posters who shared my grief. No matter how much I wanted to avoid this sensitive topic of Farmer's protest due to the recent happening, I just can't see injustice happen to poor people. I will try to keep it simple. No more name calling...just presenting facts that matter to the poor farmers. like everyone else here, opinions are there to be presented & respected from both sides...peace. I was truly impressed by all ICF posters who after disagreeing with you came to sympathize. Nice gesture on everyone's part. Under_Score 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Real McCoy Posted February 1, 2021 Share Posted February 1, 2021 18 minutes ago, Khota said: Some posters have it black and white here. They equate anti BJP as anti hindu. They have no clue how close sikhs and hindus are in the villages in Punjab. All they want is to disturb peace in Punjab. I'm sincerely baffled and troubled by the idea of calling someone a anti national just because of a protest. They don't seem to entertain the notion that maybe just maybe the govt, the so called good cop itself are in cahoots with the "khlasitanis", the so called bad cop. Our people are very emotional and they seem to fall for the divide and conquer without any thinking when overcome with emotions. Not saying that this is all enginnered but should be considered as a possible scenario. Khota 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
urbestfriend Posted February 1, 2021 Share Posted February 1, 2021 26 minutes ago, Khota said: when I was young and immature I used to read Ayn rand a lot. Now I have realized it makes no sense. If you understand this complicated world giving MSP to farmers is like gauranteeing minimum wage. Is it too much if a poor farmer makes 5000 rupees pm if he toils for 60 hours in the fields? Look at PSU employees who do jack shyt and get gauranteed income for rest of their lives. But only 6% farmers are getting minimum wage, others can die. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
urbestfriend Posted February 1, 2021 Share Posted February 1, 2021 9 minutes ago, Real McCoy said: I'm sincerely baffled and troubled by the idea of calling someone a anti national just because of a protest. They don't seem to entertain the notion that maybe just maybe the govt, the so called good cop itself are in cahoots with the "khlasitanis", the so called bad cop. Our people are very emotional and they seem to fall for the divide and conquer without any thinking when overcome with emotions. Not saying that this is all enginnered but should be considered as a possible scenario. While you consider that scenario, there are others who also consider the political and religious motive in these protests. It's all even out finally but democracy suffers when the protesters are breaking the law and inconveniencing others. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
randomGuy Posted February 1, 2021 Share Posted February 1, 2021 5 minutes ago, urbestfriend said: While you consider that scenario, there are others who also consider the political and religious motive in these protests. It's all even out finally but democracy suffers when the protesters are breaking the law and inconveniencing others. Caste now also the biggest driving force ...this tikait guy is on the wrong side for threatening police (Bakkal utaar diye jayenge)....then wept to hide his wrongs, and get his caste people to rally around him.. Khattar is a non jat. So in haryana there's plenty of jat opposition (congress CM candidate Hooda is a jat, the reason why they support congress) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rkt.india Posted February 1, 2021 Share Posted February 1, 2021 (edited) 48 minutes ago, Khota said: when I was young and immature I used to read Ayn rand a lot. Now I have realized it makes no sense. If you understand this complicated world giving MSP to farmers is like gauranteeing minimum wage. Is it too much if a poor farmer makes 5000 rupees pm if he toils for 60 hours in the fields? Look at PSU employees who do jack shyt and get gauranteed income for rest of their lives. I belong to a village in a West UP. Family owns and does farming in 45 bigha land but I don't get your working 60 hours a week thing. For crops like wheat, sugarcane, paddy. You don't need to work 60 hours a week. You work mostly when sowing and then harvesting. In between that, it's just casual work after every few days like watering, fertilizing, cleaning weed grass etc. And these days farmers employ labour to do this work. Edited February 1, 2021 by rkt.india coffee_rules 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Real McCoy Posted February 1, 2021 Share Posted February 1, 2021 7 minutes ago, urbestfriend said: While you consider that scenario, there are others who also consider the political and religious motive in these protests. It's all even out finally but democracy suffers when the protesters are breaking the law and inconveniencing others. I don't bring the scenario from a conspiracy website. I have witnessed a protest personally here in the South were the initial protest was just and the protests were peaceful. In the last day when the protest was broken down, hooligans were involved and there was a video passed in social media where one policeman was burning some vehicle. So your theory of protestors = rioters is not always true. Some may hijack the protests and lead it astray or those in power can use the excuse to equate protestors with riots Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yoda-esque Posted February 1, 2021 Share Posted February 1, 2021 Can we stay away from Khalistan and such. Stick to the topic.Rofl Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yoda-esque Posted February 1, 2021 Share Posted February 1, 2021 Question,who the * is jagmeet Singh and what does he want Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khota Posted February 1, 2021 Share Posted February 1, 2021 5 hours ago, Real McCoy said: I'm sincerely baffled and troubled by the idea of calling someone a anti national just because of a protest. They don't seem to entertain the notion that maybe just maybe the govt, the so called good cop itself are in cahoots with the "khlasitanis", the so called bad cop. Our people are very emotional and they seem to fall for the divide and conquer without any thinking when overcome with emotions. Not saying that this is all enginnered but should be considered as a possible scenario. That is page 1 and paragraph 1 of BJP election book. Create an enemy and then defeat it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khota Posted February 1, 2021 Share Posted February 1, 2021 5 hours ago, urbestfriend said: But only 6% farmers are getting minimum wage, others can die. All 100% should be helped. I am tired of this divide and conquer stuff you have learned. Under_Score and Real McCoy 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khota Posted February 1, 2021 Share Posted February 1, 2021 5 hours ago, rkt.india said: I belong to a village in a West UP. Family owns and does farming in 45 bigha land but I don't get your working 60 hours a week thing. For crops like wheat, sugarcane, paddy. You don't need to work 60 hours a week. You work mostly when sowing and then harvesting. In between that, it's just casual work after every few days like watering, fertilizing, cleaning weed grass etc. And these days farmers employ labour to do this work. Lot of small time farmers cant afford laboreres. You have lot of land holding and not typical. What does your family think of MSP? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coffee_rules Posted February 1, 2021 Share Posted February 1, 2021 (edited) 1 hour ago, Khota said: All 100% should be helped. I am tired of this divide and conquer stuff you have learned. MSP is set on a need/demand of the crop based on the investment of the land/expenses. It is not a minimum-wage as you think it is., The crop you grow, the quality of it, the need of it in the society is the basis of MSP. How can you set MSP for all all crops and all regions. You are speaking with no knowledge of how MSP is set. Even a lot of educated think MSP is like minimum wage. Minimum wage is based on labor effort for a given job, MSP is based on a lot of economic criteria on regional conditions. It can be set for some staple-diet crops like wheat and paddy and a few others economically viable for the government to sell. If they grow a rare crop and the crop's demand is low, government can't end up buying at an MSP and occur huge losses and rot the crop in FCI godowns. That's what is happening now. You can't ever make MSP a law, for all crops! Ask Amrinder, why MSP of some crops is less than the MSP of the same in Haryana. Edited February 1, 2021 by coffee_rules Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ravishingravi Posted February 1, 2021 Share Posted February 1, 2021 9 hours ago, Khota said: when I was young and immature I used to read Ayn rand a lot. Now I have realized it makes no sense. If you understand this complicated world giving MSP to farmers is like gauranteeing minimum wage. Is it too much if a poor farmer makes 5000 rupees pm if he toils for 60 hours in the fields? Look at PSU employees who do jack shyt and get gauranteed income for rest of their lives. This is not Ayn Rand. This is basic 101 economics. You can’t throw good money after bad money. Growth comes from value addition not farmers growing crops for MSP. MSP is protection not an incentive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khota Posted February 2, 2021 Share Posted February 2, 2021 4 hours ago, coffee_rules said: MSP is set on a need/demand of the crop based on the investment of the land/expenses. It is not a minimum-wage as you think it is., The crop you grow, the quality of it, the need of it in the society is the basis of MSP. How can you set MSP for all all crops and all regions. You are speaking with no knowledge of how MSP is set. Even a lot of educated think MSP is like minimum wage. Minimum wage is based on labor effort for a given job, MSP is based on a lot of economic criteria on regional conditions. It can be set for some staple-diet crops like wheat and paddy and a few others economically viable for the government to sell. If they grow a rare crop and the crop's demand is low, government can't end up buying at an MSP and occur huge losses and rot the crop in FCI godowns. That's what is happening now. You can't ever make MSP a law, for all crops! Ask Amrinder, why MSP of some crops is less than the MSP of the same in Haryana. They should identify few crops and set an MSP which is valid for private companies too. Goverment needs to decide how much to grow and where to grow it. Even if that means paying not to grow. BJP has failed miserably in showing what the alternate path is. I understand it is impossible to sustain half the population in agriculture if they account for 15% of GDP but they should be shown an alternate path to economic freedom. Trust us your income will double in two years is neither data nor an economic policy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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