Long term Investment in X factor players v/s Short term investment in players with limitation - What will you choose ?

[Ankit_sharma03]

We are somewhat on a similar road like 2017 when Virat took over LOI and he had sought No.4 which he messed up big time , now he is in same place with 2 yrs left for 2023 Wc and few issues in LOI side to be figured out. 

 

He has two options

 

A. Invest in players who have limitation but not bad for short term - Manish, Iyer 

B. Invest for long term in players who have X factor - Pant, Samson , Shaw 

 

Two players who fit in both category are

 

• Gill- Long term investment but lacks X factor yet he is a special player
• SKy- Short term investment but has X factor (but i think he shud just be considered for t20 in which he can play 2 Wcs easily which is more then enough)

 

Last time he went for short term solutions like - Rayudu, rahane, DK, Raina, Yuvi which all blew in his face and then when no time was left he had to throw in options like Shankar, Pant, Rahul whom he never invested in .....this is where he messed up big time

 

Category A - Short term Invesment - Manish n Iyer

 

Pros -

• Experienced Domestic cricketers 
• Leads domestic , A sides, IPL sides so helps in leadership core 
• Has one strong aspect
• Manish - great fielder 
• Safe players ( but only in their good zones)

 

Cons

 

• One massive weak area - Iyer struggles against bounce and Manish struggles against slow bowling so they become as inconsistent as any in half countries . Iyer failed in SA n Aus , Manish lost his no. 4 spot when he came to subcontinet 
• Lacks X factor
• Limited stroke range 

 

Category B- Pant, Samson, Gill , Shaw (ill put in gill here as of now since he is a long term investment )

 

Pros 

 

• When they mature they will give great returns and they wont mature by sitting on bench. With hardik n Rahul coming good this middle order looks to have someone firepower and this came after both have played 30-50 games. Yuvi and rohit investment came after 80-100 games
• X factor 
• Someone like Pant gives a left hander in lineup which is much needed
• Gill plays spin damn well
• Shaw n Samson are dasher openers we are looking for 

 

Cons-

 

• Inconsistency 
• Shot selection ( i dont consider it as problem coz the one who has range will have issue in choosing not the ones who lack it)
• lack of reliability but then again can you rely on those in half conditions 

 

 

Options are there but its what you choose and then live with it, kohli doesnt stick to anything hence he is creates a chaos 

 

 

 

Now if your choose Option- A then be ready then also be ok with their limitation 

Now if your choose Option B- have patience for a longer duration 

Edited April 24, 2022 by Ankit_sharma03

[BacktoCricaddict]

So, what exactly is X-factor?  

 

Is it someone who, under crunch situations or when everyone else is failing, will step up and finish the game in the team's favor?

Is it someone who, on their day, can take over the game but there's no way to tell when that day will come?  

 

Or something else?

[maniac]

Iyer is as quality as Sky or any other names. Let him get confidence he is a brutal hitter. 
 

He is also just 24, already played some good knocks, has some flaws but who doesn’t? Has been backed to captain in  a high pressure.

 

If that doesn’t fit in long term investment don’t know what is.

 

He is one of the biggest 6 hitters in the country. 

[Majestic]

Iyer's hitting skills is at another level to Pandey.

 

Iyer and SKY both are in the same range . Lets not hype a 31 year old IPL uncapped international player and call him a better investment than a 25 year old who captains an IPL franchise team and is playing international cricket from past two years .

 

My picks would be:-

 

ODIs- GILL> Iyer> Pant> SKY> rest

T20s( on current form)- SKY> Pant/Samson> Iyer> rest

 

Edited December 9, 2020 by Majestic

[BacktoCricaddict]

1 minute ago, Majestic said:

Iyer's hitting skills is at another level to Pandey.

 

Iyer and SKY both are in the same range . Lets not hype a 31 year old IPL uncapped international player and call him a better investment than a 25 year old who captains an IPL franchise team and is playing international cricket from past two years .

 

My picks would be:-

 

ODIs- GILL> Iyer> Pant> SKY> rest

T20s( on current form)- SKY> Pant/Samson> Iyer> rest

 

The thing that is intriguing about SKY is his 360 ability.  Iyer doesn't seem to have too many innovative shots in his repertoire.    

[maniac]

1 minute ago, BacktoCricaddict said:

The thing that is intriguing about SKY is his 360 ability.  Iyer doesn't seem to have too many innovative shots in his repertoire.    

he is a more classical bat. If we are talking only T20’s then sure SKY might be worth a shot. However someone like Iyer is the guy for ODIs and even tests

[putrevus]

For some people  it is always about players who are not playing. They turn them into some fricking Bradmans and Holdings. SKY is the lastest flavor of the month,  SKY is not the answer to any of Indian batting woes. He is no way better than Iyer. Iyer is younger and has more upside.Once SKY faces international bowling he will not do any better than Iyer. He should get chances in T20s but let us not make him something he is never going to be.

 

 

[Majestic]

24 minutes ago, BacktoCricaddict said:

The thing that is intriguing about SKY is his 360 ability.  Iyer doesn't seem to have too many innovative shots in his repertoire.    

Which is why I have SKY ahead of all mentioned names in T20s on current form but just suppose we are putting SKY at no.1 now even though he hasn't yet debuted in international cricket, what if the same situation arises after he debuts in international cricket.

 

It becomes a completely different ball game while playing for India, the pressure will be on sky on him because people will be having lot of expectations and he has never played any international game in any format. Playing for MI is not same as playing for India. His place is fixed in MI but when he plays for India, he will come to bat after the bulk of overs being played by Rohit, Rahul or Dhawan and Kohli and it becomes a different challenge then.

Edited December 9, 2020 by Majestic

[Ankit_sharma03]

38 minutes ago, maniac said:

Iyer is as quality as Sky or any other names. Let him get confidence he is a brutal hitter. 

 

 

cant compare as of now , SKY is yet to be tested at higher level....he cud be better or worse 

Iyer short ball problem have been seen in IPL time n again but sky hasnt shown any weakness in IPL as of now 

 

 

 

 

Quote

 

He is also just 24, already played some good knocks, has some flaws but who doesn’t? Has been backed to captain in  a high pressure.

 

If that doesn’t fit in long term investment don’t know what is.

 

He is one of the biggest 6 hitters in the country. 

 

hitting sixes is not a problem for Samson or pant either .

 

Neways Its a  personal choice which it wud be at the end with kohli, whatever he chooses he has stick with he cant shift plane like 2019 Wcs. For eg u like rohit u back him to hill , but u dnt flip....thats my point u choose and u live with it

Edited December 9, 2020 by Ankit_sharma03

[Ankit_sharma03]

36 minutes ago, BacktoCricaddict said:

So, what exactly is X-factor?  

 

Someone who can runaway with the game and has the extra gear or extra special skill set for eg in 

 

Batting warner , rohit are ex factor in ODI as compare to kohli or smith

bowling- warne, malinga, akram, starc, bond 

36 minutes ago, BacktoCricaddict said:

 

Is it someone who, under crunch situations or when everyone else is failing, will step up and finish the game in the team's favor?

 

thats a clutch player 

 

[maniac]

1 minute ago, Ankit_sharma03 said:

 

cant compare as of now , SKY is yet to be tested at higher level....he cud be better or worse 

Iyer short ball problem have been seen in IPL time n again but sky hasnt shown any weakness in IPL as of now 

 

 

 

 

 

hitting sixes is not a problem for Samson or pant either 

 Playing big knocks is. Pant yes has the ability to play big knocks but not sure about Samson. I am ok with his quick fire knocks in T20

though but not for longer formats

[Ankit_sharma03]

31 minutes ago, Majestic said:

 

Iyer and SKY both are in the same range . Lets not hype a 31 year old IPL uncapped international player and call him a better investment than a 25 year old who captains an IPL franchise team and is playing international cricket from past two years .

 

 

read 

 

45 minutes ago, Ankit_sharma03 said:

 

SKy- Short term investment but has X factor (but i think he shud just be considered for t20 in which he can play 2 Wcs easily which is more then enough)

 

 

[express bowling]

The team has to be a mix of ...

 

1. Established big names who are performing currently too. ( Kohli, Bumrah, Shami and Jadeja in multi-formats, Rohit and Chahal in ODIs, Pujara and Ishant in tests, Ashwin in tests in Asia, Bhuvi in T20s etc., Pandya and Rahul are almost there in LOIs  )

 

2. Young players who have the potential to be big players in the near future, Debut such players when they are in top form. Their transition to the top level would be easier then. (  Gill, Shaw, Pant, Kishan, Kuldeep, Prasidh, Rahul Chahar are ready ) .... ( Tyagi, Mavi, Padikkal, Ruturaj, Bishnoi are not ready yet but fall in the same category )

 

3. Utility players who are in great form. Don't pick more than 2 such players. ( Rahane, Vihari, Siraj in tests, Natarajan, Shardul in LOIs, Sundar, D.Chahar in T20s, Pandey in ODIs )

 

 

Don't pick  ...

 

1. Big names who have lost form and ability.

 

2. Too many utility players ... it would bring down the the quality of the team.

 

 

 

I don't know which category Mayank, Iyer, Saini, SKY and Samson belong to. They are better than utility players but look a bit less than top players .. plus are not established names yet  ... and a few of them ( Mayank, SKY  and Saini ) don't have time on their hands to be big established players. 

 

 

 

Edited December 9, 2020 by express bowling

[Ankit_sharma03]

2 minutes ago, maniac said:

 Playing big knocks is. Pant yes has the ability to play big knocks but not sure about Samson. I am ok with his quick fire knocks in T20

though but not for longer formats

 

samson has played big knocks in IPL, he has 100s in IPL ...problem is consistency but like he only fits in top 3 ....batting lower doesnt suit him which RR does every yr 

[jalebi_bhai]

@Ankit_sharma03 simple question bro, do you think Indian fan base have the patience and fortitutde to digest a few bad losses and ICC tournament group stage exits to see a transformation in Indian team batting? 

 

What I mean is, go with a revamped team and suffer short term losses for long term gains?

 

I don't think majority of the fan base has the patience. Great change only comes with great sacrifice.

 

You can have all the long term plans that you want, but if the fan base itself starts attacking players at the slightest hint of failure, it's pointless.

 

Let me give you an example. Ind vs Aus 2019 Mohali, Pant makes a keeping error, crowd starts chanting 'Dhoni, Dhoni..". This is the generally IQ of the aam junta. 

 

Professional sport is a results based business at the end of the day. Besides, Kohli the captain doesn't have enough credit in the bank unless he wins an ICC trophy soon. He will prioritize winning in the short term.

 

If anything, even if he just boots Dhawan from the T20 team, I'll be happy. It may not be enough progress, but it is progress.

[Ankit_sharma03]

1 minute ago, express bowling said:

 

I don't know which category Mayank, Iyer, Saini, SKY and Samson belong to. They are better than utility players but look a bit less than top players .. plus are not established names yet  ... and a few of them ( Mayank, SKY  and Saini ) don't have time on their hands to be big established players. 

 

 

Im not debating big players vs utility vs clutch players

 

Debate here is for empty slot which has 2 option players with limited skill set and X factor with their own set of cons

 

Iyer- players with limitaton

Saini - As of now i dnt see him a runaway match winner, but he has the potential 

Samson- X factor

Sky- Street smart to be honest but For this lineup X factor 

Mayank - good player but definitely not X factor 

[bowl_out]

For ODIs, I would prioritize consistency and utility over X-factor.. I would pick Iyer, Shankar, Pandey, Gill  over Samson, Pant etc.

 

For T20s, I would go the short-term route.. we need players who can deliver the extra punch, make a 70 off 35 on their day and win it for their team instead of a 50 off 45 balls innings.. Really don't understand Pandey and Dhawan in the T20 side.. They should pick SKY and Kishan

[maniac]

23 minutes ago, Ankit_sharma03 said:

 

cant compare as of now , SKY is yet to be tested at higher level....he cud be better or worse 

Iyer short ball problem have been seen in IPL time n again but sky hasnt shown any weakness in IPL as of now 

 

 

 

 

 

hitting sixes is not a problem for Samson or pant either .

 

Neways Its a  personal choice which it wud be at the end with kohli, whatever he chooses he has stick with he cant shift plane like 2019 Wcs. For eg u like rohit u back him to hill , but u dnt flip....thats my point u choose and u live with it

Thank u. Don’t forget Ishant as well. At least Rohit had some fans. 

[Ankit_sharma03]

1 minute ago, bowl_out said:

For ODIs, I would prioritize consistency and utility over X-factor.. I would pick Iyer, Shankar, Pandey, Gill  over Samson, Pant etc.

 

 

two question 

 

• In day n age of 350 total and top order who is slow u want consistency 
• are iyer and pandey consistent in half conditions in world ?

[Ankit_sharma03]

18 minutes ago, jalebi_bhai said:

@Ankit_sharma03 simple question bro, do you think Indian fan base have the patience and fortitutde to digest a few bad losses and ICC tournament group stage exits to see a transformation in Indian team batting? 

 

 

Nahin, par haar to pakki waise bhi 

 

 

18 minutes ago, jalebi_bhai said:

 

What I mean is, go with a revamped team and suffer short term losses for long term gains?

 

I don't think majority of the fan base has the patience. Great change only comes with great sacrifice.

 

You can have all the long term plans that you want, but if the fan base itself starts attacking players at the slightest hint of failure, it's pointless.

 

fans are fickle so neways no captain shud go on how they think

One day pant is better next day kishen next day samson- sadly kohli has same fickle mind

 

18 minutes ago, jalebi_bhai said:

 

Let me give you an example. Ind vs Aus 2019 Mohali, Pant makes a keeping error, crowd starts chanting 'Dhoni, Dhoni..". This is the generally IQ of the aam junta. 

 

hero worshipping is another problem 

 

18 minutes ago, jalebi_bhai said:

 

Professional sport is a results based business at the end of the day. Besides, Kohli the captain doesn't have enough credit in the bank unless he wins an ICC trophy soon. He will prioritize winning in the short term.

 

If anything, even if he just boots Dhawan from the T20 team, I'll be happy. It may not be enough progress, but it is progress.

 

thats ambitious