Is this the end of Ashwin?

[jalebi_bhai]

12 minutes ago, G_B_ said:

 

Keep thakur at 8.

This is very important.

 

I know there is a lot of recency bias wrt to Thakur's batting ability, but once teams start sussing him out, he will revert closer to his FC numbers and average between 15-25. Still very handy mind.

[putrevus]

4 minutes ago, New guy said:

Bullshit, ashwin could have easily taken jadejas place. Thakur is now fulfilling the batting all rounder role

 

But then again kohli would have gone with 11 batsmen and you would still die defending that, so that point is moot 

Stop being personal. If you have cricketing point state it otherwise don't reply to my comment.

 

Yes Ashwin could done what Jadeja is doing but Jadeja is more certain with bat than Ashwin. That 10 to 15 runs and ability to stay at the crease  is very vital to this team. Jadeja playing over is not a slight to Ashwin's bowling .

 

Captain is fully justied for his selections as his bowlers were able to take 20 wickets in three matches.It is the batting which needs help and Jadeja's bat adds more value. Why should captain play Ashwin over Jadeja.

[putrevus]

19 minutes ago, Lord said:

 

Improve bowling

 

I'm not even asking him for a pacer.Just bat Thakur at 7

Improve bowling for what, take 25 wickets. Batting needs improvement and help. Bowling is doing just fine.

[Lord]

3 minutes ago, putrevus said:

Improve bowling for what, take 25 wickets. Batting needs improvement and help. Bowling is doing just fine.

 

to take 20 wickets for fewer runs 

[G_B_]

25 minutes ago, jalebi_bhai said:

I think he's now primarily a sub-continent specialist, not that he doesn't have the skills to bowl in SENA. His recent record in SENA is quite good.

 

What works in favour of Jadeja is that he brings another LHB option to our line up and is a gun fielder. Batting wise, they're equally good and bowling wise Ashwin is ATM a shade better in SENA.

 

Fully agree. 

 

People like thakur remind me of piyush chawla or kuldeep.

 

Have 2 to 3 years where they are amazing before fading away.

 

Beyond the tour of Sa i think the truth is india need to look beyond even thakur. The home cycle vs sena will begin and thakur will be 33 to 34 when we next tour.

 

Harsh world we live in....the team will have 6 or so regulars with the support cast changing as per need. Unfortunately Ashwin and Thakur are the support cast.

 

 

[Samcric]

I would not be too sure of Thakur being a long term solution at 8. His first class record is not that good so not sure if he has suddenly improved his batting or has been freakishly lucky in his first 4-5 outings. He will be found out and then will need to tweak a few things in his batting. Not sure if his bowling will be good enough to guarantee him a place in the team. These are still early days and no. 8 position is not finalized in the long term. Except Thakur, there is no one but Ashwin who can contribute with both bat and ball in SENA.

[jalebi_bhai]

21 minutes ago, G_B_ said:

 

Fully agree. 

 

People like thakur remind me of piyush chawla or kuldeep.

 

Have 2 to 3 years where they are amazing before fading away.

 

Beyond the tour of Sa i think the truth is india need to look beyond even thakur. The home cycle vs sena will begin and thakur will be 33 to 34 when we next tour.

 

Harsh world we live in....the team will have 6 or so regulars with the support cast changing as per need. Unfortunately Ashwin and Thakur are the support cast.

 

 

 

Do you see Ashwin playing a player-mentor role in the next few years? Need someone to groom Sundar for Tests.

[putrevus]

1 minute ago, Lord said:

 

to take 20 wickets for fewer runs 

Can Ashwin do better job than Jadeja in building partnerships? If answer is yes then Ashwin should play over Jadeja as he is better bowler.

[Lord]

55 minutes ago, jalebi_bhai said:

I think he's now primarily a sub-continent specialist, not that he doesn't have the skills to bowl in SENA. His recent record in SENA is quite good.

 

What works in favour of Jadeja is that he brings another LHB option to our line up and is a gun fielder. Batting wise, they're equally good and bowling wise Ashwin is ATM a shade better in SENA.

 

Jadeja is the better batsman.

 

Averages 6-7 runs more both overall and in SENA. And in last 3-4 years,its not even close.

 

To put it into perspective,We all are bashing Jadeja for failing with bat this series and rightly so,but he averages 22 which is Ashwin's career average in SENA.

 

That said,the gulf in their bowling abilities is much bigger.So if Thakur or someone else can nail no. 7 spot,Ashwin provides much better balance.

[Lord]

3 minutes ago, putrevus said:

Can Ashwin do better job than Jadeja in building partnerships? If answer is yes then Ashwin should play over Jadeja as he is better bowler.

 

Jadeja is the better batsman.

 

But now Thakur can do that job

[putrevus]

1 minute ago, Lord said:

 

Jadeja is the better batsman.

 

But now Thakur can do that job

No Thakur cannot do his job.They need both their bats in the lineup to put up totals which bowlers can defend.They don't need Ashwin's bowling to take 20 wickets. 

[G_B_]

11 minutes ago, jalebi_bhai said:

 

Do you see Ashwin playing a player-mentor role in the next few years? Need someone to groom Sundar for Tests.

 

He will be involved in cricket in some way

 

Commentary initially. Dont think he will take a coaching jump initially. 

 

The problem for Ash is that he is not a part of Loi. So you have years where he barely will play for India. People like Pujara atleast plays tests home n away. So that roughly 40 to 60 days of international cricket. 

 

I think Ash would play even till 40 if say he was part of t20 set up. You need to keep playing to be relevant.

 

He has been slowly relegated from t20 to odi/test to only test and now home tests only. 

 

[Ankit_sharma03]

19 minutes ago, G_B_ said:

The problem for Ash is that he is not a part of Loi

our loss only

[jalebi_bhai]

27 minutes ago, Lord said:

 

Jadeja is the better batsman.

 

Averages 6-7 runs more both overall and in SENA. And in last 3-4 years,its not even close.

 

To put it into perspective,We all are bashing Jadeja for failing with bat this series and rightly so,but he averages 22 which is Ashwin's career average in SENA.

 

That said,the gulf in their bowling abilities is much bigger.So if Thakur or someone else can nail no. 7 spot,Ashwin provides much better balance.

On the contrary, I don't think Jadeja has failed with the bat this series. He's made important contributions in every Test except Leeds. He could've done better nevertheless.

 

Now regarding Thakur, I'm still a bit skeptical about considering him to be a full fledged all-rounder. His FC average is what it is for a reason. Let Ashwin bat at 7 as he has more proven pedigree at this level. Number 8 is ideal for Thakur atm.

 

Just to clarify, I wanted Ashwin to play at the Oval in place of Jadeja but I understand why the TM opted for Jadeja, not that I agree with them.

[jalebi_bhai]

26 minutes ago, G_B_ said:

 

He will be involved in cricket in some way

 

Commentary initially. Dont think he will take a coaching jump initially. 

 

The problem for Ash is that he is not a part of Loi. So you have years where he barely will play for India. People like Pujara atleast plays tests home n away. So that roughly 40 to 60 days of international cricket. 

 

I think Ash would play even till 40 if say he was part of t20 set up. You need to keep playing to be relevant.

 

He has been slowly relegated from t20 to odi/test to only test and now home tests only. 

 

Yes. I think the emergence of Sundar has expedited this phasing out.

[Lord]

4 minutes ago, jalebi_bhai said:

Yes. I think the emergence of Sundar has expedited this phasing out.

 

I think they are misusing Sundar,hes a batsman first capable to bat in top 6

 

It'll be sad if he's seen as Ashwin's successor rather than Rahane's

[jalebi_bhai]

2 minutes ago, Lord said:

 

I think they are misusing Sundar,hes a batsman first capable to bat in top 6

 

It'll be sad if he's seen as Ashwin's successor rather than Rahane's

We will always have rich batting stocks so finding a Rahane replacement won't be tough.

 

But who replaces an ATG like Ashwin?

[Lord]

2 minutes ago, jalebi_bhai said:

We will always have rich batting stocks so finding a Rahane replacement won't be tough.

 

But who replaces an ATG like Ashwin?

 

won't be Sundar. Ashwin will definitely be missed at home once he retires but I have more hope on someone like Rahul Chahar going forward.Even Kuldeep if he sorts his mental strength issues.

[coffee_rules]

 

[maniac]

10 hours ago, G_B_ said:

 

Fully agree. 

 

People like thakur remind me of piyush chawla or kuldeep.

 

Have 2 to 3 years where they are amazing before fading away.

 

Beyond the tour of Sa i think the truth is india need to look beyond even thakur. The home cycle vs sena will begin and thakur will be 33 to 34 when we next tour.

 

Harsh world we live in....the team will have 6 or so regulars with the support cast changing as per need. Unfortunately Ashwin and Thakur are the support cast.

 

 

Few months ago no one even expected Thakur to be even discussed in these kind of topics, look at him now.  
 

Don’t worry the lord is not going anywhere until he at least wins 1 man of the match(finals)/man of the series award in a major ICC tourney and cement his legacy forever. I am not talking about bilaterals but an actual marquee event.

 

Bump this later .

Edited September 8, 2021 by maniac