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PAK vs INDIA opening Match T20 WC 2021- what went wrong

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56 minutes ago, maniac said:

Dew was not a problem at all. I feel had we chased  today, we still would have lost badly.

 

look at the body language of Rizwan and Babar Azam while Rohit and Rahul looked like they saw a ghost the moment they walked in. Swear the moment the ball left Afridi’a hand I knew that was out. Just one of those things you feel instinctively watching so much cricket sometime.

 

I have no clue why they looked so much under pressure.

 

After even worse drubbing in CT final, I remember how calm and composed the Indian team looked in the Asia cup and even in WC. Not sure what went wrong.


i dont agree. If india bowled first india would have won hands down and even if we had lost 3 wickets while chasing in pp. in t20 setting a target is always difficult as u dont know how pitch behaves. You can easily line up your chase if there is dew and target one bowler. Lot of things are under your control while chasing. The shot pant played he wouldng have if india was chasing. He had to go for the shot as he didnt know what target to give. Toss is a huge factor at least in t20s.. india looked under pressure because they lost two wickets in first 3 overs. If india had scored 30/0 in first 6 india would have made 175 easily. Batting first and losing 3 wickets in pp is as good as a loss. Batting second and losing 3 wickets in pp you still have good chance of winning if its a middling 160 chase as two good overs can turn the game.. 

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3 minutes ago, neel roy said:


i dont agree. If india bowled first india would have won hands down and even if we had lost 3 wickets while chasing in pp. in t20 setting a target is always difficult as u dont know how pitch behaves. You can easily line up your chase if there is dew and target one bowler. Lot of things are under your control while chasing. The shot pant played he wouldng have if india was chasing. He had to go for the shot as he didnt know what target to give. Toss is a huge factor at least in t20s.. india looked under pressure because they lost two wickets in first 3 overs. If india had scored 30/0 in first 6 india would have made 175 easily. Batting first and losing 3 wickets in pp is as good as a loss. Batting second and losing 3 wickets in pp you still have good chance of winning if its a middling 160 chase as two good overs can turn the game.. 

 

I never heard much about dew and toss being crucial during IPL. The IPL final was won batting first. Sure, there were more runs on the board on that day, but clearly toss should not be this critical as it is being made out.

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2 minutes ago, Adi_91 said:

 

I never heard much about dew and toss being crucial during IPL. The IPL final was won batting first. Sure, there were more runs on the board on that day, but clearly toss should not be this critical as it is being made out.

Did you see the ipl qualifiers. Both were won because kkr won the toss in one and captain kohli allowed kkr to bat. In the final kkr was 90/0 chasing 186. Any team would have won with dew. Kkr screwed it. 

Edited by neel roy
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Just now, neel roy said:

Did you see the ipl qualifiers. Both were won because kkr won the toss. In the final kkr was 90/0 chasing 186. Any team would have won with dew. Kkr screwed it. 

 

CSK won once in Dubai batting first and bowling first (First Qualifier and Final). In the final, CSK batted very well.  I guess, if you are a good side batting/bowling first should not make a difference. For Pak, it did, but I expected India to be better than that.

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Shami is not a T20 bowler. Test match lengths won't help him here and lack of cutters, slower ball means he will get read easily. He should not be in the squad.

 

Natarajan is a huge loss

 

If Hardik was in good batting form , he is a shoo in for no 6, even when not bowling. As he is struggling with bat and not bowling, he is a passenger.

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  • In LOI , on a given day any team can win and shorter the format the better chance a weaker team has
  • Pakistan cant be underestimated in UAE, its a home for them and then when pitches became 150 around it was going to be in their territory. I wnt be surprised if they win the Wc
  • Non Selection of thakur , Selection of Bhuvi 
  • Promotion of jaddu
  • Shami is not a t20 bowler and bhuvi has nothing going on for him
  • We have been talking about some out of box ideas for every game in this WC but we choose to go safe 
  • Shaheen is a top class bowler 
  • This time they looked in control of their nerves 
  • Most importantly - We have assembled right players but they are not settled as unit, they dnt know their roles which have been changing from last series. Finding right players isnt alone enough

 

Rest not much, its a game someone will loose . 

Edited by Ankit_sharma03
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1)  Poor Team Selection  -  Even the 15 selected was quite poor -    Shreyas Iyer /  Siraj / Chahal  were left out  - These guy's were left out whereas Pakistan recalled Hafeez and Malik. 

2) Selection of Pandya  -   What is Pandya's role in the playing 11 ?  Is he playing as a specialist batsman ? If he is , then is he better than Ishan Kishan as a specialist batsman?   Why not play Ishan who would get you more runs or Thakur who might score similar to Pandya but also give 3 to 4 extra overs ?

3)  Playing with only 5 bowlers in a T20 match ?   Even in IPL - teams play with 6 to 7 bowlers -   How can a team expect to win a match with only 5 bowlers in playing 11 and no plan B ?    9 Out of 10 teams you would lose with only 5 bowlers

4)  Captaincy   -   Kohli chose to Leave Bumrah out from first over.   How would you create any pressure?  How would you push the other team back ?  Bumrah bowled 1 over in only first 10 overs , Really ? 

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1. Selection of Pandya over Kishan

2. Selection of VC over Ashwin

3. Selection of Bhuvi over Thakur

4.Not enforcing a R/L combination to upset the Pakistan rhythm

5. Not planning for Afridi

6. Jaddu coming ahead of Pandya

7. Not exploiting Pakistani spinners

8. Not starting with Bumrah

 

 

 

Even if all these issues were addressed, I still think Pakistan would have won, but I do think the game would have been a lot closer.

 

India had the runs on the board to at least defend 151, but to lose by 10 wickets is unforgivable. It means that Pakistan had complete control of the bowling while chasing.

 

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@express bowling we shared similar thoughts on this, we both felt Pakistan were a strong chance especially if India bat first with the wrong combination.

 

I think India will be knocked out in the group stage.

 

One game doesnt cost you a place, but I can see us choking against NZ.

 

Mind you we beat them 4-0 in NZ. With Jaddu being a thorn and Kl was a weapon. Not to mention our current XI is better on paper than the team that played NZ.

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1.   The biggest factor was that almost all our players looked de-motivated. I don't know the reason why, but they lacked the will and intensity to win. They just went through the motions and looked like a tired and jaded team. It was almost like they had received death threats if they tried to win. 

 

2.   We did not seem to have sufficient ideas about the strengths and weaknesses of the Pakistani players. 

 

3.   Our selectors and TM preferred to choose big names with general experience in international cricket, without much consideration to current form and ability in T20s. ( Only exception was the dropping of Dhawan. )  

 

Which is why ....

... there is no Siraj in the squad

... Shardul was dropped today and was not in the initial squad either,

... while Bhuvi and Shami were automatic choices.

.. a non-bowling and out of form Hardik was preferred over Kishan. 

.. both Rohit and Kohli played 

.. and how does Ashwin make the squad based on current T20 form !

 

4.   We need to look for bowlers who can take wickets with the new ball. This has been our biggest weakness across formats.

 

5.  We lacked a 150 kph pacer, and having at least 1 such good pacer helps a lot. We need to be on the lookout for a few pacers with extreme pace and groom them. Do it even if they are not the highest wicket takers. 

 

Having atleast 1 such pacer in the team creates an adverse psychological impact on the opposition because of the fear of getting hit.

 

6.    The Indian Team of the last 5 years are very prone to batting collapses ... and this means we always need to have a bowling all-rounder at 8, like Shardul.

 

7.  Bumrah is our best pacer and needed to be given 2 overs upfront to try and get Pakistani wickets in a low scoring match. Instead, we opened with an out of form and probably unfit Bhuvi.

 

8.  We need a left-hander, like Kishan, in the top three..  Opposition bowlers are able to bowl a good line and length a bit too easily with only right handers batting.

 

 

Edited by express bowling
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6 minutes ago, express bowling said:

1.   The biggest factor was that almost all our players looked de-motivated. I don't know the reason why, but they lacked the will and intensity to win. They just went through the motions and looked like a tired a jaded team. It was almost like they had received death threats if they tried to win. 

 

2.   We did not seem to have sufficient ideas about the strengths and weaknesses of the Pakistani players. 

 

3.   Our selectors and TM preferred to choose big names with general experience in international cricket, without much consideration to current form and ability in T20s. ( Only exception was the dropping of Dhawan. )  

 

Which is why ....

... there is no Siraj in the squad

... Shardul was dropped today and was not in the initial squad either,

... while Bhuvi and Shami were automatic choices.

.. a non-bowling and out of form Hardik was preferred over Kishan. 

.. both Rohit and Kohli played 

.. and how does Ashwin make the squad based on current T20 form !

 

4.   We need to look for bowlers who can take wickets with the new ball. This has been our biggest weakness across formats.

 

5.  We lacked a 150 kph pacer, and having at least 1 such good pacer helps a lot. We need to be on the lookout for a few pacers with extreme pace and groom them. Do it even if they are not the highest wicket takers. 

 

Having atleast 1 such pacer in the team creates an adverse psychological impact on the opposition because of the fear of getting hit.

 

6.    The Indian Team of the last 5 years are very prone to batting collapses ... and this means we always need to have a bowling all-rounder at 8, like Shardul.

 

6.  We need a left-hander, like Kishan, in the top three..  Opposition bowlers are able to bowl a good line and length a bit too easily with only right handers batting.

 

 

 

@express bowling, great points!

 

Also, one other thing I am very irritated about is the fact that our top order batsmen can't bowl and our bowlers can't bat. Looking at other teams, this is a serious weakness and needs to be plugged ASAP. Today, we had no option but to go with expensive Shami and Bhuvi when it became all apparent that a loss was coming.

 

Losing with 13 balls to spare also hurts the NRR now which is at -0.973 after just one game! Even if they had tried to delay the inevitable, this could have been lowered.

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46 minutes ago, express bowling said:

1.   The biggest factor was that almost all our players looked de-motivated. I don't know the reason why, but they lacked the will and intensity to win. They just went through the motions and looked like a tired a jaded team. It was almost like they had received death threats if they tried to win. 

 

2.   We did not seem to have sufficient ideas about the strengths and weaknesses of the Pakistani players. 

 

3.   Our selectors and TM preferred to choose big names with general experience in international cricket, without much consideration to current form and ability in T20s. ( Only exception was the dropping of Dhawan. )  

 

Which is why ....

... there is no Siraj in the squad

... Shardul was dropped today and was not in the initial squad either,

... while Bhuvi and Shami were automatic choices.

.. a non-bowling and out of form Hardik was preferred over Kishan. 

.. both Rohit and Kohli played 

.. and how does Ashwin make the squad based on current T20 form !

 

4.   We need to look for bowlers who can take wickets with the new ball. This has been our biggest weakness across formats.

 

5.  We lacked a 150 kph pacer, and having at least 1 such good pacer helps a lot. We need to be on the lookout for a few pacers with extreme pace and groom them. Do it even if they are not the highest wicket takers. 

 

Having atleast 1 such pacer in the team creates an adverse psychological impact on the opposition because of the fear of getting hit.

 

6.    The Indian Team of the last 5 years are very prone to batting collapses ... and this means we always need to have a bowling all-rounder at 8, like Shardul.

 

7.  Bumrah is our best pacer and needed to be given 2 overs upfront to try and get Pakistani wickets in a low scoring match. Instead, we opened with an out of form and probably unfit Bhuvi.

 

8.  We need a left-hander, like Kishan, in the top three..  Opposition bowlers are able to bowl a good line and length a bit too easily with only right handers batting.

 

 

Great post.

 

 

1. Agree

2. TM including Kohli is to blame for this, poor preparation. Even arrogance to not be aware of this.

3. Wrong combination, even with the right one, still think Pakistan wins this but would be much much closer.

4. Bumrah used to be this weapon, we need to find a new one quickly. Wickets in hand are like gold in any run chase.

5. Agree. India does not have any intimidating lethal fast bowler, its the first time I saw Afridi. I was scared of him and I was sitting on my couch.

6. Shardul is needed, but even with a collapse I dont think he would make a valuable difference. However, he can make decent useful contributions with the bat.

7. Absolutely pathetic. Cost India any remote chance of winning. Bumrah is a bona fide match winner on par with Afridi.

8. Kishan not playing and also playing ahead of Pandya was awful. Especially considering his recent form.

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The thing is all big teams go through cyclical phases after being on the Top for the long time and then go on a downward trend before they can realign themselves,  I believe India is going towards that - not necessarily a bad thing though however glaring issues lasting for the past few years which haven't been addressed. 

 

1)  India made the same exact mistakes it did in 2017 CT  - Did it Learn anything since then ?    - 2017 CT  - Left hand Amir ,  2011 wc  - Left hand Wahab and 2021 - Left arm Afridi  -  No learning on how to play a left handed seamer.

2)  After Pandya being injured for two years now - Who is India's number 6 ?   Why is there no replacement for Pandya ?    Is Pandya taking this as a govt job ?  Regardless of what he does - he deserves a place in the team always ? India moved on from Sachin/ Sehwag / Dravid / Ganguly / Yuvi  - but India cannot move on from Pandya?  Really ? 

3) Large Ego's   -  Kohli blindly backs the player he likes regardless of whether it is logical or not.   Kohli has been blind backing Pandya - Why?  Selecting a half fit Pandya in the playing 11 - Isn't that a disrespect to all the other players in the team who didn't play?    Does Kohli really believe India doesn't have a better batsman at 6 than Half Fit Pandya ?   Kohli backs Yuzi when playing for RCB - but for India 11 he has no confidence in Yuzi ?  He's contradicting himself. 

4)  Team looked Scared  -   Sharma and KL rahul walking in to bat looked grief stricken and scared.  This happens when a team isn't confident in its playing 11 and tactics.  Pakistan announced their playing 12 a day before - India kept debating until the last minute.  When you aren't confident in the team taking the field - It shows.  Pakistan's body language was relaxed and confident - They believed in their playing 11 .  India knew they had 5 bowlers only + half fit Pandya

5)  Captaincy -  Bumrah is one of the premier bowlers in the World - Why wouldn't you give him the first over?   What confidence are you showing in your best bowler?    Fight fire with fire .  Afridi took the responsibility - Why not give Bumrah the chance to give you a wicket in the first over or bowl a maiden but you go with Bhuvi ?    Secondly ,  Why is Bhuvi playing ?   His 120 k's slow medium pace bothers not even Afghanistan batsman - He couldn't bowl even local Indian talent out in IPL - You would bowl 120 kmph dilly dollys  and that would trouble International batsman ?     Lastly,  why was Jadeja sent over Pandya  ?   Does Kohli have more confidence in Jadeja's batting over Pandya ?  If he wanted Pandya for the last few overs - did Kohli not think that Pandya could do more damage from Over 14-Over 18 ?   Does Kohli have no confidence Pandya lasting even 4 overs ? 

Edited by Try_Ball
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11 minutes ago, Try_Ball said:

The thing is all big teams go through cyclical phases after being on the Top for the long time and then go on a downward trend before they can realign themselves,  I believe India is going towards that - not necessarily a bad thing though however glaring issues lasting for the past few years which haven't been addressed. 

 

1)  India made the same exact mistakes it did in 2017 CT  - Did it Learn anything since then ?    - 2017 CT  - Left hand Amir ,  2011 wc  - Left hand Wahab and 2021 - Left arm Afridi  -  No learning on how to play a left handed seamer.

2)  After Pandya being injured for two years now - Who is India's number 6 ?   Why is there no replacement for Pandya ?    Is Pandya taking this as a govt job ?  Regardless of what he does - he deserves a place in the team always ? India moved on from Sachin/ Sehwag / Dravid / Ganguly / Yuvi  - but India cannot move on from Pandya?  Really ? 

3) Large Ego's   -  Kohli blindly backs the player he likes regardless of whether it is logical or not.   Kohli has been blind backing Pandya - Why?  Selecting a half fit Pandya in the playing 11 - Isn't that a disrespect to all the other players in the team who didn't play?    Does Kohli really believe India doesn't have a better batsman at 6 than Half Fit Pandya ?   Kohli backs Yuzi when playing for RCB - but for India 11 he has no confidence in Yuzi ?  He's contradicting himself. 

4)  Team looked Scared  -   Sharma and KL rahul walking in to bat looked grief stricken and scared.  This happens when a team isn't confident in its playing 11 and tactics.  Pakistan announced their playing 12 a day before - India kept debating until the last minute.  When you aren't confident in the team taking the field - It shows.  Pakistan's body language was relaxed and confident - They believed in their playing 11 .  India knew they had 5 bowlers only + half fit Pandya

5)  Captaincy -  Bumrah is one of the premier bowlers in the World - Why wouldn't you give him the first over?   What confidence are you showing in your best bowler?    Fight fire with fire .  Afridi took the responsibility - Why not give Bumrah the chance to give you a wicket in the first over or bowl a maiden but you go with Bhuvi ?    Secondly ,  Why is Bhuvi playing ?   His 120 k's slow medium pace bothers not even Afghanistan batsman - He couldn't bowl even local Indian talent out in IPL - You would bowl 120 kmph dilly dollys  and that would trouble International batsman ?     Lastly,  why was Jadeja sent over Pandya  ?   Does Kohli have more confidence in Jadeja's batting over Pandya ?  If he wanted Pandya for the last few overs - did Kohli not think that Pandya could do more damage from Over 14-Over 18 ?   Does Kohli have no confidence Pandya lasting even 4 overs ? 

 

I am all for the captain to back a player (case in point: Pandya). But when the player is not delivering with either disciplines, then it is time to stop backing and try others.

 

But that said, I don't know if there is another player in domestic cricket who can bat and bowl an over or two at #6 (or even #4-8). This makes Pandya an invaluable player. But that cannot justify backing him blindly for this long.

 

I have never really understood why Bumrah didn't bowl the first over in the IPL as well and I am not understanding this logic in this game either. They had only 151 to defend, so there is no way they could have defended without early wickets.

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